What makes a Supersportscar, and is this one too extreme?
Discussion
coolchris said:
Had this over 17 years and it still puts a smile on my face.At 23 years old things wear out now and again but actual running costs are very reasonable for the handling and performance that they offer. 
Stunning.Mine’s only 20. This year, in addition to the scheduled service, its had a new throttle cable, drive belt and radiator (third rad in its life, the last ProAlloy one had a manufacturing fault). Drove it today, can’t stop loving it.
I also had a Lotus Esprit Turbo in the nineties , loved that car, but also suffered a cracked manifold , paint that would mark every time it rained and the final straw came when the Marina door locks failed and locked me out while the car was still running, i was far from home and had to break in .........I then sold it for 10k .......now 50 to 60 for a good one!!
I think many of the others have pretty much got this spot on, others have not realised that this was a purely academic question 
I wouldn't class an Atom as a sports car—it's a track car through and through. Sports cars in my mind retain at least some usability without too much compromise. By my metric, a Caterham would also be too compromised, due to ingress/egress and the roof alone.
First thing that came to mind was an Ultima—kit car, yes, but I do believe that they can probably be built well and reliable. Not particularly practical (storage in the sills in some, but really not much beyond that).
Otherwise, you start making compromises in performance but gain some usability. An Exige is not going to do sub-3 to 60 and sub-7 to 100 without a lot of money thrown at it (Jubu manual gearbox and a 600hp motor may just about to get you there as a guess, but it's going to cost tens of thousands), but take the numbers out of the equation and it is almost certainly the most reasonable choice. The numbers in real terms don't matter (an Exige is still far too fast for the road), but for the purpose of this specific discussion, not technically the right choice without modifications. Exige reliability is absolutely stellar though.
I wouldn't class an Atom as a sports car—it's a track car through and through. Sports cars in my mind retain at least some usability without too much compromise. By my metric, a Caterham would also be too compromised, due to ingress/egress and the roof alone.
First thing that came to mind was an Ultima—kit car, yes, but I do believe that they can probably be built well and reliable. Not particularly practical (storage in the sills in some, but really not much beyond that).
Otherwise, you start making compromises in performance but gain some usability. An Exige is not going to do sub-3 to 60 and sub-7 to 100 without a lot of money thrown at it (Jubu manual gearbox and a 600hp motor may just about to get you there as a guess, but it's going to cost tens of thousands), but take the numbers out of the equation and it is almost certainly the most reasonable choice. The numbers in real terms don't matter (an Exige is still far too fast for the road), but for the purpose of this specific discussion, not technically the right choice without modifications. Exige reliability is absolutely stellar though.
Spindoctor said:
Shnozz said:
Trev450 said:
Yes I have no doubt they are but they still don't match up to the build quality and reliability of most of the leading sports car brands
Perhaps. But reliability and build quality are different things. I’ve never found any of my Loti unreliable. Admittedly, the build quality and materials in some areas feels cheap.
Shnozz said:
Trev450 said:
Jimjimhim said:
Trev450 said:
- excellent reliability
Caterhams look to be very simple, so not much to go wrong. I bet 1 would be a lot more fun than a big heavy super car. Very simple cars really and with a Toyota lump little to go wrong.
I didn't read every post on this thread, however, I don't think I saw the Corvette Z06 C8 on anyone's list. It is well under the 0-60 3 second mark (2.6), should have very good reliability (especially when compared to other exotics mentioned here), with the big torque from an American big V8, it should be easy around town or the highway, and will be closer to the 100,000 price tag than to the 200,000. And I think you can still get a manual transmission. I'm not a huge fan of its looks (especially the side intakes big enough to cook a turkey), but in some colors (darker ones) it is quite striking. I, like several others who have chimed in, am a senior, so I am more enamored of older sports supercars from a different era. My weekend canyon carver is nowhere near the 3 second or less 0-60 time, has no power steering (but therefore great steering feel), is as analog as you can imagine, is still gorgeous at 52 years of age, can still outhustle many of today's offerings, and makes noises 6" behind your head that is more addicting than illicit drugs. 100,000 will find many well sorted cars and 150,000 will get you near perfect examples. I have a gated manual ZF 5 speed, and actually get a thrill at 30mph as much as at 100mph. Always a spectator favorite at our weekly car show adventures and has a usable trunk, big enough to carry real suitcases or in my case big enough to have carried two sets of golf clubs to the golf course. So, what could I be talking about. See below: (1972 De Tomaso Pantera)
tberg said:
I didn't read every post on this thread, however, I don't think I saw the Corvette Z06 C8 on anyone's list. It is well under the 0-60 3 second mark (2.6), should have very good reliability (especially when compared to other exotics mentioned here), with the big torque from an American big V8, it should be easy around town or the highway, and will be closer to the 100,000 price tag than to the 200,000. And I think you can still get a manual transmission. I'm not a huge fan of its looks (especially the side intakes big enough to cook a turkey), but in some colors (darker ones) it is quite striking. I, like several others who have chimed in, am a senior, so I am more enamored of older sports supercars from a different era. My weekend canyon carver is nowhere near the 3 second or less 0-60 time, has no power steering (but therefore great steering feel), is as analog as you can imagine, is still gorgeous at 52 years of age, can still outhustle many of today's offerings, and makes noises 6" behind your head that is more addicting than illicit drugs. 100,000 will find many well sorted cars and 150,000 will get you near perfect examples. I have a gated manual ZF 5 speed, and actually get a thrill at 30mph as much as at 100mph. Always a spectator favorite at our weekly car show adventures and has a usable trunk, big enough to carry real suitcases or in my case big enough to have carried two sets of golf clubs to the golf course. So, what could I be talking about. See below: (1972 De Tomaso Pantera)
As Gorgeous as a Pantera is (and it is, congrats), 1,400 kilos is not lightweight (My SUV weighs less) and as for the Corvette, that's 1,700 kilos. Weight is the No.1 factor with these cars, and also one of the requirements, you can feel it in every input and output. I did not read the posts, but to me it needs to look special, drive special and make you feel like you are driving something special. Sad as it is, I think it needs to be expensive too for most people.
For me engine sound and relatively light weight are the most important parts. I love a high revving engine, especially a V12 - I don't care if it is fast but it needs a manual imo, it just needs to feel special - that is why I prefer old cars to new cars nowadays. My FF does not have a manual, but it makes up for it by being a daily car - so I would not class it as a supersportscar, more like a much nicer daily than a Taycan or BMW etc
For me engine sound and relatively light weight are the most important parts. I love a high revving engine, especially a V12 - I don't care if it is fast but it needs a manual imo, it just needs to feel special - that is why I prefer old cars to new cars nowadays. My FF does not have a manual, but it makes up for it by being a daily car - so I would not class it as a supersportscar, more like a much nicer daily than a Taycan or BMW etc
Bispal said:
As Gorgeous as a Pantera is (and it is, congrats), 1,400 kilos is not lightweight (My SUV weighs less) and as for the Corvette, that's 1,700 kilos. Weight is the No.1 factor with these cars, and also one of the requirements, you can feel it in every input and output.
1400kg isn't especially light, but it's also not especially heavy. A Lamborghini Huracan is around 1550kg. A Ferrari 296 GTB is 1470kg according to Ferrari, but firstly that's the dry weight, and secondly Ferrari are notoriously "optimistic" with kerb weights. Top Gear weighed their 296 at 1620kg.It depends what you mean by "lightweight", but personally I don't think of being lightweight as a defining factor of a supercar. For me a track car is lightweight, a sports car is lightweight, but a lot of supercars are no lighter than an average family car.
For comparison sake, a Lamborghini Huracan is nearly exactly the same weight as a Pantera. A Ferrari 458 is more than 300 lbs heavier. An Aston Vantage is more than 700 lbs. heavier. So, unless you're looking at some sort of Lotus, or a kit car without all of the required safety and emissions equipment, the choices will be quite limited to find a choice under 3000 lbs. The Ford 351 Cleveland engine used in nearly all Panteras except for the Si model of the last two years (which was only about 40 cars), is easily modifiable to high horsepower figures in the 6-750 hp range giving it as high a horsepower to weight ratio as many modern supercars. (mine is about 500hp) Again, it's an over five decade old automobile, it doesn't feel like a modern car, but is quite a bit more thrilling to drive while providing tremendous amounts of feel, thunderous sounds, all while still capable of prodigious speed. It or any of the offerings from the same era or a little later was just presented as a different kind of alternative to the OP's original query. Tomorrow I'll have mine at the enormous Best Of France and Italy Car Show in Los Angeles. Always a tremendous show, I'll post some pictures tomorrow evening.
Edited by tberg on Saturday 2nd November 22:04
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