456M or 4200GT
Discussion
I have read with interest all the comments on the 456 recently but the question for me when I replace my 3200GT is do I buy an early 456M manual, say 98 or 99, or a (nearly) new 03 spec 4200GT manual?
I have a number of pluses and negatives as does my local dealer but I would like to benefit from the opinion of those here.
PS I have driven 02 and 03 4200's and the 550 but never a 456.
I have a number of pluses and negatives as does my local dealer but I would like to benefit from the opinion of those here.
PS I have driven 02 and 03 4200's and the 550 but never a 456.
All these tough questions! This one is particularly hard as the cars are a similar concept and share quite a few parts. I would suggest it comes down to 1) Usage and 2) Choice.
1) Is this a daily driver or a weekend car? If daily then it's the Maser since while it's thirsty, it doesn't chew fuel like a Saturn 5 rocket, and people expect high mileages. The Maser has more room inside if you need to carry passengers regularly.
2) Most 456Ms (8-9/10 IIRC) are autos. I had the dickens of a job finding a manual; mine was the only one on sale in the country at the time (Spring 2000). There are more around now, but don't expect to be inundated.
In terms of residuals the 456 will probably fare a little better than the 4200 (based on 3200 profile) since it is on a different point of the depreciation curve.
Quite fancy a 4200 myself, which is why I've not gone near one for ages! Plan is to wait until they're in the late 30s early 40s and nab one then.
Kevin
1) Is this a daily driver or a weekend car? If daily then it's the Maser since while it's thirsty, it doesn't chew fuel like a Saturn 5 rocket, and people expect high mileages. The Maser has more room inside if you need to carry passengers regularly.
2) Most 456Ms (8-9/10 IIRC) are autos. I had the dickens of a job finding a manual; mine was the only one on sale in the country at the time (Spring 2000). There are more around now, but don't expect to be inundated.
In terms of residuals the 456 will probably fare a little better than the 4200 (based on 3200 profile) since it is on a different point of the depreciation curve.
Quite fancy a 4200 myself, which is why I've not gone near one for ages! Plan is to wait until they're in the late 30s early 40s and nab one then.
Kevin
>>Plan is to wait until they're in the late 30s early 40s and nab one then<<
Judging by current trends that should be by about mid next week then ;-)
I went to the launch and *totally* fell in love with the 4200, I think its a wonderful car...I wanted to hang back for a time and watch depreciation, and I'm SO pleased that I did...Lovely car though....
Judging by current trends that should be by about mid next week then ;-)
I went to the launch and *totally* fell in love with the 4200, I think its a wonderful car...I wanted to hang back for a time and watch depreciation, and I'm SO pleased that I did...Lovely car though....
Thanks for the thoughts - I was offered a loaded 52 plate manual 4200 coupe from a dealer for £45k a few weeks ago but having driven both I would prefer an 03 car.
I fell in love with the 456 a few years ago and understand that I should be buying a 'M' car. These are now becoming affordable (if you can find a manual, but I'm prepared to wait) and as I own three cars I am only likely to do 5k or 6k miles pa in the Maser or Ferrari.
Has anyone driven both (456M/4200GT) and can give straight forward comparison of the driving experience alone without masking it with other variables?
I fell in love with the 456 a few years ago and understand that I should be buying a 'M' car. These are now becoming affordable (if you can find a manual, but I'm prepared to wait) and as I own three cars I am only likely to do 5k or 6k miles pa in the Maser or Ferrari.
Has anyone driven both (456M/4200GT) and can give straight forward comparison of the driving experience alone without masking it with other variables?
Andrew Richmond said:
Thanks for the thoughts - I was offered a loaded 52 plate manual 4200 coupe from a dealer for £45k a few weeks ago but having driven both I would prefer an 03 car.
Christ!
How much??? What the hell happened there- last time I looked late plate 3200s were going for that. Sorry Andrew, not driven a 4200 yet (I don't dare). Should be fairly straightforward for you to try out a 456M and draw your own conclusions?
Kevin
Kevin, 4200GT I was offered for £45k was up at £47,995 (still is!)
Maranello have a two year old manual 456M (silver, yuck!) up at £88k but I've moved from 5 miles away from Egham back up to Scotland - hard to find a manual up here! Anyway don't like Maranello margins.
Interestinly Maranello's website does not allow a search on pre 'M' 456's. Are these too grotty to be sold at the Tower Garage?
Maranello have a two year old manual 456M (silver, yuck!) up at £88k but I've moved from 5 miles away from Egham back up to Scotland - hard to find a manual up here! Anyway don't like Maranello margins.
Interestinly Maranello's website does not allow a search on pre 'M' 456's. Are these too grotty to be sold at the Tower Garage?
Andrew Richmond said:
Thanks for the thoughts - I was offered a loaded 52 plate manual 4200 coupe from a dealer for £45k a few weeks ago but having driven both I would prefer an 03 car.
Just for information, Glasses doesnt book Masers, but CAP sees the car @ about £42k trade so sounds quite a reasonable price!
clubsport said:
The catch? How about a few trips to the dealership to sort things,albeit under warranty and a trade in value of £30k a year later.
Thats maybe the case, think your being a tad hard on the value after 12mths, and yes a 911 maybe more reliable (but they are by no means perfect)and given the dealers desires for nice healthy margins coupled with a years depreciation the money lost is not going to be that far behind (be it on a higher value car)
what else does £42k buy you second hand nearly new?
an M3
CLK500
SC430
XK8
Not quite the same are they? LOL
>> Edited by lotusnobles on Sunday 10th August 10:07
Kevin, my neighbour recently got his 4200 with paddle shift (he had the 355F1 before) and he says it is worlds apart from the 355's F1. A million times better!
I recall Ajay saying he drove one, and was extremely surprised at how good the car was, especially the F1 shift.
He got something like £15K for his 355 to swap cars. I think a cash price worked out at something like 50K or so. Its literally a new car, with only delivery mileage (200 miles). Looks really, really nice, and a LOT better made than his 3200 was.
Sue would kill me if she read this, but his is looking to be a really good car. I think he's had it about a month, but has taken it to France etc, without even a hiccup. It will take a battering on depreciation, but I don't think as much as the 3200, its simply a much better (and better made) car.
I recall Ajay saying he drove one, and was extremely surprised at how good the car was, especially the F1 shift.
He got something like £15K for his 355 to swap cars. I think a cash price worked out at something like 50K or so. Its literally a new car, with only delivery mileage (200 miles). Looks really, really nice, and a LOT better made than his 3200 was.
Sue would kill me if she read this, but his is looking to be a really good car. I think he's had it about a month, but has taken it to France etc, without even a hiccup. It will take a battering on depreciation, but I don't think as much as the 3200, its simply a much better (and better made) car.
LotusNobles...I wasn't trying to put the boot in on the Maser 4200,or indeed compare it to a 911..
a 4200 is a great car for the money,but do you think that by putting a different engine in the car everything is sorted.Also the depreciation curve may slow down after a year,but it is not going to stop,£65-42k in 1 year is £23k,,,the £42-30k I implied on trade in (not private sale) is half the depreciation of the previous year.
All sounds perfectly reasonable to me.I have seen early 3200Gt offered in the mid £20's privately,so clearly dealers are not paying that.
These are great cars to pick up secondhand,,but clearly there are reasons for the pricing,there are a few maser/ferrari owners suffering near me as a main dealer arrived 2 1/2 years ago and left 6 months ago,,now owners have an extra 30 miles to go for a service.
a 4200 is a great car for the money,but do you think that by putting a different engine in the car everything is sorted.Also the depreciation curve may slow down after a year,but it is not going to stop,£65-42k in 1 year is £23k,,,the £42-30k I implied on trade in (not private sale) is half the depreciation of the previous year.
All sounds perfectly reasonable to me.I have seen early 3200Gt offered in the mid £20's privately,so clearly dealers are not paying that.
These are great cars to pick up secondhand,,but clearly there are reasons for the pricing,there are a few maser/ferrari owners suffering near me as a main dealer arrived 2 1/2 years ago and left 6 months ago,,now owners have an extra 30 miles to go for a service.
All valid points clubsport, but you only have to look how the product/image has improved over the last ten years and I think this will improve further
Early cars do have an iffy reputation as regards to problems and upgrades which is a shame because at mid twenties what a car
They are flawed diamonds that are gradually becoming more polished, and you might bump into Jodie Kidd at the dealership!
Early cars do have an iffy reputation as regards to problems and upgrades which is a shame because at mid twenties what a car
They are flawed diamonds that are gradually becoming more polished, and you might bump into Jodie Kidd at the dealership!
Get in there and buy all the ones available at £42k
You can then show Cap and all the other price guides how wrong they are.
I am very interested in pricing and it's effects,there is clearly something the market is not understanding to price them down so aggresively in the first year.
Maybe it is the old adage of people who have been burned in te past not beleiving a leopard can change it's spots overnight...Not denying they are very desirable and intriguing cars,but prices tell a story.
I ran a new 996 bought from Europe for 14mths,,not the most interesting car I have had though certainly capable.I sold the car at a small profit...clearly Porsche are doing something right in terms of marketing that the Italians do not care to grasp.
You can then show Cap and all the other price guides how wrong they are.
I am very interested in pricing and it's effects,there is clearly something the market is not understanding to price them down so aggresively in the first year.
Maybe it is the old adage of people who have been burned in te past not beleiving a leopard can change it's spots overnight...Not denying they are very desirable and intriguing cars,but prices tell a story.
I ran a new 996 bought from Europe for 14mths,,not the most interesting car I have had though certainly capable.I sold the car at a small profit...clearly Porsche are doing something right in terms of marketing that the Italians do not care to grasp.
clubsport said:
Get in there and buy all the ones available at £42k
You can then show Cap and all the other price guides how wrong they are.
I am very interested in pricing and it's effects,there is clearly something the market is not understanding to price them down so aggresively in the first year.
Maybe it is the old adage of people who have been burned in te past not beleiving a leopard can change it's spots overnight...Not denying they are very desirable and intriguing cars,but prices tell a story.
I ran a new 996 bought from Europe for 14mths,,not the most interesting car I have had though certainly capable.I sold the car at a small profit...clearly Porsche are doing something right in terms of marketing that the Italians do not care to grasp.
They managed it quite well with Ferrari! LOL There are rumours around about the amount of these cars are forced registered, and how Ferrari dealers have been forced to take the franchise, but some of these car are doing some miles so they cant be that bad! lol this site interests me as they are independants www.caracalla.co.uk/maseratis.php so are more in touch with reality!
Maserati's time will come .... voted most desirable brand in the states or somethin recently!
>> Edited by lotusnobles on Sunday 10th August 22:37
lotusnobles said:
this site interests me as they are independants www.caracalla.co.uk/maseratis.php so are more in touch with reality!
Hah! You see, I just don't get this. They have a 04/05/01 3200 with 24K miles on at £46K as well as a 01/06/02 4200 with 7K miles on at £48K. Both are manual and the 3200 has had the power pack, but why is there so little price differential? The obvious answer to the price drop is more sellers than buyers; the only thing I can think of is that 3200 prices have been maintained artifically (and still there to some extent) and the constraint has been removed for the 4200.
£46k is the advertised price,,,even if they look for £5k mark up,,I would be stunned if they offered £41k to a private buyer looking to sell.
You have to look at private advertised prices to get the real picture.
Surely if there is a 3 year transferable manufacturers warranty a private buy has got to look very attractive.
You have to look at private advertised prices to get the real picture.
Surely if there is a 3 year transferable manufacturers warranty a private buy has got to look very attractive.
ninja_eli said:
I recall Ajay saying he drove one, and was extremely surprised at how good the car was, especially the F1 shift.
Yep, was indeed very impressed. The car is a huge improvement over the 3200. It has a smooth power delivery and the ride is a lot better due to the Skyhook suspension. The interiors have always been beautiful on the Masers but I think they have improved the ergonomics of the cabin on the 4200 a bit. CC/F1 gearshift is effectively the same as the 360's and the car I drove was an 03 car which had just had the software upgrade; the shifts felt a lot quicker and the usual jerking while pulling away in traffic in first gear was reduced significantly.
All round you do get a lot of car and a lot of performance for the money and I would definitely go for one.
Ajay
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