Car won't start. Turns over, no fuel or spark.

Car won't start. Turns over, no fuel or spark.

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el romeral

Original Poster:

1,030 posts

136 months

Monday 1st May 2017
quotequote all
Hi, hoping the collective PH knowledge can help me get my barge running again. It is a 1996 Opel Vectra 2.5 V6. About 8 weeks ago, I started to dismantle the engine due to some overheating issues and a small oil leak. Due to my travels and unavailability of parts, I only got it all back together again yesterday. Here it is all reassembled but will not start. The painted engine parts have been known to reduce 0-60 times to under 7 secondssmile



I replaced the water pump, thermostat & thermostat tube, rocker cover gaskets and O rings, coolant temp sensor, spark plugs and a few other gaskets. Due to the nature of this engine and lack of space, it is necessary to remove quite a lot of it to gain access as per pics below. Aux belt was removed but not the timing belt. Various sensors, including the cam were moved to one side. Part of the fuel system was removed to get to the thermostat.





The battery is good and it turns over very eagerly. I have also tried starting it whilst getting a jump from another car. No fuel pressure when I remove the relief cap. Removed a spark plug and observed there was no spark when attempting to start. The rev counter moves a little during starting, not sure but I think this indicates that the crank sensor is OK? No noise from fuel pump but I can hear clicking from the relay.

Can I have upset something major whilst doing my repairs, which prevents the car from getting a spark or pressurising the fuel system?

paintman

7,669 posts

189 months

Monday 1st May 2017
quotequote all
Methodical check of the wiring to make sure all is connected where it should be, the connections are tight & nothing has been missed.
Sounds like ECU doesn't think the engine is turning over.

stevieturbo

17,229 posts

246 months

Monday 1st May 2017
quotequote all
Does the pump even prime on key on ? If not, you have major problems.

If it does, at least the ecu is live and able to function.

After that, crank or cam sensors.

IF the crank sensor was ok, and the crank is turning you would get an rpm reading, and the fuel pump should run again. Check this.

If this is all good, then could well be cam sensor. You'd need a scope or at a push you might get a crude test done with a voltmeter. Although voltmeter wont really validate any signal.

el romeral

Original Poster:

1,030 posts

136 months

Monday 1st May 2017
quotequote all
paintman said:
Methodical check of the wiring to make sure all is connected where it should be, the connections are tight & nothing has been missed.
Sounds like ECU doesn't think the engine is turning over.
Thanks for the reply. This is certainly plausable and could easily have happened during my efforts. In order to check fully I will need to remove engine parts again unfortunately.

GreenV8S

30,150 posts

283 months

Monday 1st May 2017
quotequote all
If you know where the ECU is and are able to find details of the connector pin-outs, you can check the sensor wiring continuity here. If you know the sensor type you can check the signals here too. (You can also do this directly at the sensor, assuming you have access to it.)

el romeral

Original Poster:

1,030 posts

136 months

Monday 1st May 2017
quotequote all
stevieturbo said:
Does the pump even prime on key on ? If not, you have major problems.

If it does, at least the ecu is live and able to function.

After that, crank or cam sensors.

IF the crank sensor was ok, and the crank is turning you would get an rpm reading, and the fuel pump should run again. Check this.

If this is all good, then could well be cam sensor. You'd need a scope or at a push you might get a crude test done with a voltmeter. Although voltmeter wont really validate any signal.
Thanks for the reply. I had someone sit in the back seat and listen closely to the fuel pump and there was absolutely no sound. I did get a small rpm reading during attempted starting so guess that makes the cam sensor ok.
I have no error codes showing, which is something I suppose smile

el romeral

Original Poster:

1,030 posts

136 months

Monday 1st May 2017
quotequote all
GreenV8S said:
If you know where the ECU is and are able to find details of the connector pin-outs, you can check the sensor wiring continuity here. If you know the sensor type you can check the signals here too. (You can also do this directly at the sensor, assuming you have access to it.)
Thanks for that. I believe the ECU is in the area below the wipers, will have a look. Everything ECU related worked fine before I started work, so it would seem that I have inadvertently broken something.

paintman

7,669 posts

189 months

Monday 1st May 2017
quotequote all
Wouldn't get too excited about the small rpm reading when cranking.
Many tachos take their feed from the alternator so if it's turning you'll get a reading.

el romeral

Original Poster:

1,030 posts

136 months

Monday 1st May 2017
quotequote all
paintman said:
Wouldn't get too excited about the small rpm reading when cranking.
Many tachos take their feed from the alternator so if it's turning you'll get a reading.
OK so may still be a cam sensor problem. Will look into this first.

Penelope Stopit

11,209 posts

108 months

Monday 1st May 2017
quotequote all
Mmmmm
No fuel pump priming before cranking and no spark when cranking leads me to think that there is possibly a battery or ignition supply missing from somewhere
You need to be 100% sure that the clicking relay is the fuel pump relay
If the fuel pump relay is clicking it should be running the pump for priming and you should have had some fuel pressure when you checked it
If the fuel pump relay is clicking but not running the fuel pump, there could be a supply missing from the relay
Due to having no spark there could be a supply missing from the coils
If this fault is down to a missing supply - Is there a possibility that you have not connected all the cables back up to the battery?
Have you possibly shorted something out (trapped cable?) and blown a main fuse or engine/injection/ignition fuse?

el romeral

Original Poster:

1,030 posts

136 months

Monday 1st May 2017
quotequote all
Penelope Stopit said:
Mmmmm
No fuel pump priming before cranking and no spark when cranking leads me to think that there is possibly a battery or ignition supply missing from somewhere
You need to be 100% sure that the clicking relay is the fuel pump relay
If the fuel pump relay is clicking it should be running the pump for priming and you should have had some fuel pressure when you checked it
If the fuel pump relay is clicking but not running the fuel pump, there could be a supply missing from the relay
Due to having no spark there could be a supply missing from the coils
If this fault is down to a missing supply - Is there a possibility that you have not connected all the cables back up to the battery?
Have you possibly shorted something out (trapped cable?) and blown a main fuse or engine/injection/ignition fuse?
Great information thanks.
Actually, I could be mistaken about the sound coming from the fuel pump relay. There are others in the area, so will need to check again to be sure. Perhaps another one makes a noise when the ignition is turned on?

The battery cables are all connected up ok but not so easy to check at the dis pack due to low down location. Will check all fuses to make sure all are fine.

I do tend to think that it is one fault which has caused the two failings.

Jazzy Jag

3,412 posts

90 months

Monday 1st May 2017
quotequote all
:ahem:

Have you tried shutting all the doors, locking it with the remote, then unlocking it and trying again?

It the immobilised has passive armed it might cut those 2 circuits?

getmecoat

el romeral

Original Poster:

1,030 posts

136 months

Monday 1st May 2017
quotequote all
Just in from the garage. Did some more googling based on replies here and found that there is a small fuse box behind the battery which I never checked, as I forgot it was there. This contains the ECU 20A yellow fuse which was blown. There are also 4 or 5 60A fuses there. It is a big fuse and I do not have a spare, so will have to wait until tomorrow to confirm if all is well. Looks promising though, as long as the replacement fuse does not blow due to some other problem.......

There are actually 4 separate small fuse and relay boxes all placed near the battery, in addition to the main one inside the car - very random.

el romeral

Original Poster:

1,030 posts

136 months

Monday 1st May 2017
quotequote all
Jazzy Jag said:
:ahem:

Have you tried shutting all the doors, locking it with the remote, then unlocking it and trying again?

It the immobilised has passive armed it might cut those 2 circuits?

getmecoat
Strange you should say that, as I thought of it this afternoon. At the time
I was sure this was going to be the reason for my problems. Was gutted when it turned out not to be so.

el romeral

Original Poster:

1,030 posts

136 months

Tuesday 2nd May 2017
quotequote all
Bought a couple of new fuses for the ECU and fitted one. It blew as soon as I tried to start the car. Nightmare! Will begin by stripping down the areas that I was at before and see if there is a problem somewhere with a any of the wires which I disconnnected or moved. This could be a mission......

finlo

3,731 posts

202 months

Tuesday 2nd May 2017
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It would be quite easy to have trapped a wire when refiting the inlet manifold.

Edited by finlo on Tuesday 2nd May 15:39

E-bmw

9,105 posts

151 months

Tuesday 2nd May 2017
quotequote all
A 20A fuse blowing instantly will be a pretty dead-short circuit to earth & (as above) should be pretty easy to identify.

Good luck.

el romeral

Original Poster:

1,030 posts

136 months

Tuesday 2nd May 2017
quotequote all
Blown two fuses now. May need to get a multi packlaugh It actually blows as soon as the ignition is turned on. Engine in bits again, not seen anything obvious so far......

el romeral

Original Poster:

1,030 posts

136 months

Tuesday 2nd May 2017
quotequote all


Rather disturbingly, I found this wire where the plastic coatings have completely disintegrated causing the metal from both to touch each other. The left side should be brown and the right side red and blue. 21 years cooked up in a very hot engine bay in just about the hottest part of Europe has taken its toll. It is connected to the air intake system, not sure if this is linked to the ECU? Have tried taping up each metal wire to insulate them but can only do the part I can see. The problem may extend further into the part I can't get to - although I am unlikely to have disturbed this part of late.
I connected up various sensors etc, to prevent the engine light coming on, and switched on ignition and pfromptly blew another fuse.
It can be that there is another problem or I have not insulated the two wires properly from each other. Not sure if they have mobile mechanics in Spain?............

E-bmw

9,105 posts

151 months

Tuesday 2nd May 2017
quotequote all
If you have access to a wiring diagram there shouldn't be too many things that take power from that particular fuse.

Also, if you are having such issues, it may be worth a temporary wiring mod if there is a cheaper type of 20A fuse that can be fitted until you sort it out as some of these types of things can use some quite expensive fuses.