Bearing Notch Orientation

Bearing Notch Orientation

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Discussion

99hjhm

Original Poster:

426 posts

186 months

Tuesday 18th September 2018
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Two questions for Dave, Peter etc...

I'm getting confused with leading and trailing so will describe it like this... When looking at the front of an normal type inline 4 cylinder engine the correct way up, should the big end bearing tags be on the left of the engine or the right.

Question two... Does it matter?

HJG

463 posts

107 months

Tuesday 18th September 2018
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The primary purpose of the tags is to control the axial position of the shell when installing it. Once it's installed, the interference fit keeps it from spinning. This is commonly referred to as bearing crush.

Sometimes, and usually in high RPM situations and when you cannot increase the crush any further, the tags can be somewhat relied upon to provide a small amount of cover against shell rotation, providing the slots in the rod are designed with best practice, i.e. diagonally opposed in cap and rod, so the tag comes up against a 'hard stop'. Sorry difficult to explain without a diagram.

Anyway to actually answer your question I'd say it doesn't matter providing your connecting rods are symmetrical : )

227bhp

10,203 posts

128 months

Tuesday 18th September 2018
quotequote all
1. You haven't said which way the engine is rotating.
2. No it doesn't matter, engines now have no locating tabs at all. If it's going to go without oil to such a degree that the crank grabs it a small tab won't make any difference.

99hjhm

Original Poster:

426 posts

186 months

Tuesday 18th September 2018
quotequote all
I did say normal type four cylinder trying to be generic as possible but I guess this is PistonHeads. lol

Aware of how the notches work and lack of them in recent engine design.

Reason I ask is I have a engine spec sheet from a Hyundai WRC engine and it states bearing notches leading. Yet A former engine designer at Judd says trailing yet couldn’t provide an answer. I have always fitted them on the right side of the engine which i guess is the leading side.



Edited by 99hjhm on Tuesday 18th September 22:55

Mignon

1,018 posts

89 months

Wednesday 19th September 2018
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99hjhm said:
Question two... Does it matter?
No.

DVandrews

1,317 posts

283 months

Wednesday 19th September 2018
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If the tangs are both on the same side of the rod, then one is leading and one is trailing regardless of which way the rod is oriented. The rod orientation is often determined by the rod design which may have an offset.

In short it doesnt really matter..

Dave

PeterBurgess

775 posts

146 months

Wednesday 19th September 2018
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As the Daves say, it doesn't matter.
MGB horizontal split rods dress to the right as you look at it. I have seen many fitted the wrong way with no problems showing.
With the 1275 A series the rods are handed which puts two dressed to the right and two dressed to the left smile
Peter

Mignon

1,018 posts

89 months

Wednesday 19th September 2018
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Out of sheer pedantry, if the conrod was symmetrical and its orientation didn't matter I would build them with the rod tangs on the same side of the block as the main bearing housing tangs.

227bhp

10,203 posts

128 months

Sunday 7th October 2018
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Just for the sake of conversation and interest:
I've been helping a friend do some some analysis on a certain type of engine, he's basically buying them up cheap, stripping them and inspecting, trying to work out failure modes, how best to rebuild, modify etc. Anyhow, we got one in that was knocking and my diagnosis was lack of oil at sometime. It wasn't permanent, just under load (when you blipped the throttle) and then when you backed off. As expected it got worse as the oil got thinner when hotter so we pulled it and started to strip it.
Don't get too excited, but the two bits I found vaguely interesting were:

1. Up until now every engine (out of only two!) bearing failure was on number two, this one was No.1 and we don't know why.

2. That the bearings (which have no locating tabs and had most of the soft layer missing, but not all) had actually walked sideways in the rod, but not begun to spin. This meant that whilst some 95% of the width had been worn away, there was a higher lip left on the edge where that part of the bearing was hanging into the recessed rolled fillet area. I'm putting this down to some vibration or resonance set up by it being hammered up and down causing it to vibrated sideways.
I did a quick check with the micrometer whilst it was still in the block and the journal is untouched. One thing I did notice was excessive endfloat, but sadly a stuck crank pulley and the need for a beer and curry ended proceedings so we haven't investigated that yet.

Before what I have seen recently I would have written off a crankshaft (or expected a re-grind) when an engine was knocking or bearing material found in the filter, but no longer. It does seem that on some engines if you catch it in time the crank is untouched and all it needs is a new set of bearings fitting.

99hjhm

Original Poster:

426 posts

186 months

Sunday 7th October 2018
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Yes had the same with an engine last year, lack of main bearing clearance (Which was known about on the build, another story) and very high oil temperatures, slight drop in oil pressure, split the filter and FULL of bearing material!

Stripped engine, crank was perfectly reusable, infact, after the extra .001" was ground from it to correct the bearing clearance there were no signs of any damage, even the big ends had not suffered, but were changed, oil pump also fine. Many of the main shells were down to the steel backings. This was with King race bearings. Done a fair few hours and the customer didn't want to stop using it.

Also stripped an MGB race engine last year, one of the intermediate mains that don't feed a rod bering had spun a shell, shell had blanked off the oil hole and survived for god knows how long like it. Again, crank wasn't too bad.