impossible criteria?
Discussion
my track focussed mx5 is dying. it's been a great journey and while the car is great on track, it's uncomfortable driving it to and from. trailering not an option available to me. I have several cars and i'm now looking to combine 2 cars for track use and some limited daily use with OH (town, airport, euro touring trip).
So, budget of 10k (flexible) for car that can provide some track pleasure and also ride fairly comfortably. Coming from a light, modded car this will be a compromise. Any car that's 'barely tolerable' to the boss doesn't work, so this is a difficult remit. It needs to be a daily that could track rather than a track car that could daily.
My thoughts so far:
- Mini Cooper S on small wheels. any ride compromise would be tolerated more as this is a 'sexy' car in her mind. visit to Lohen.
- Megane Sport. badge issues here, so it needs to be comfortable else she'll suddenly feel every bump. i have no knoweldge of Megane Sports but on paper they seem built for this.
- GT86. already have one. this is not viewed as comfortable at all, but if i was rationalising the fleet she could accept it as i'd have fewer cars. In std form i find it a bit heavy on track, which tells you how i view most road cars. (on track btw the power is ok, as this car delivers everything above 4.5k). Coilovers needed.
- FiST. badge issue again, but i believe it to be good all round?
- newer MX5. loses on practicality.
- BMWs probably too heavy for my tastes
i know this is an impossible challenge. i just want something a little entertaining for 3-4 track days a year and then i'll add in other track experiences & hire to get a more hardcore fix (and enjoy a comfortable journey there and back).
any advice on standard cars and appropriate mods appreciated.
So, budget of 10k (flexible) for car that can provide some track pleasure and also ride fairly comfortably. Coming from a light, modded car this will be a compromise. Any car that's 'barely tolerable' to the boss doesn't work, so this is a difficult remit. It needs to be a daily that could track rather than a track car that could daily.
My thoughts so far:
- Mini Cooper S on small wheels. any ride compromise would be tolerated more as this is a 'sexy' car in her mind. visit to Lohen.
- Megane Sport. badge issues here, so it needs to be comfortable else she'll suddenly feel every bump. i have no knoweldge of Megane Sports but on paper they seem built for this.
- GT86. already have one. this is not viewed as comfortable at all, but if i was rationalising the fleet she could accept it as i'd have fewer cars. In std form i find it a bit heavy on track, which tells you how i view most road cars. (on track btw the power is ok, as this car delivers everything above 4.5k). Coilovers needed.
- FiST. badge issue again, but i believe it to be good all round?
- newer MX5. loses on practicality.
- BMWs probably too heavy for my tastes
i know this is an impossible challenge. i just want something a little entertaining for 3-4 track days a year and then i'll add in other track experiences & hire to get a more hardcore fix (and enjoy a comfortable journey there and back).
any advice on standard cars and appropriate mods appreciated.
If your finding the GT86 a bit heavy on track I'm not really sure where you can go to because in my thinking that would be the logical step up from an MX-5 whilst still keeping a similar kind of driving experience.
The only thing I can think is a Porsche Boxster, I believe you could get a 987 model in Boxster S spec for your budget but I think you would have the same issue as the GT86 in terms of weight.
The only thing I can think is a Porsche Boxster, I believe you could get a 987 model in Boxster S spec for your budget but I think you would have the same issue as the GT86 in terms of weight.
If a GT86 already feels too heavy, then, whilst the Meganes and such are great cars, you'll be fighting a losing battle going that way.
My choice would be to massage the GT86 (decent quality coilovers - KW Clubsport or Ohlins R&T which should still provide a compliant ride compared with offerings from BC, GAZ and such - whilst still being great on track), along with some properly lightweight alloys, titanium exhaust, carbon bonnet, lose rear seat, boot carpet etc maintaining creature comforts in the front. You might lose 50-60 kg which would be noticeable. But, if this is already considered "too uncomfortable" you might be fighting a losing battle there too.
If you can find a decent S2000 + hardtop in your budget, that might be a good shout.
My choice would be to massage the GT86 (decent quality coilovers - KW Clubsport or Ohlins R&T which should still provide a compliant ride compared with offerings from BC, GAZ and such - whilst still being great on track), along with some properly lightweight alloys, titanium exhaust, carbon bonnet, lose rear seat, boot carpet etc maintaining creature comforts in the front. You might lose 50-60 kg which would be noticeable. But, if this is already considered "too uncomfortable" you might be fighting a losing battle there too.
If you can find a decent S2000 + hardtop in your budget, that might be a good shout.
motorhole said:
If a GT86 already feels too heavy, then, whilst the Meganes and such are great cars, you'll be fighting a losing battle going that way.
My choice would be to massage the GT86 (decent quality coilovers - KW Clubsport or Ohlins R&T which should still provide a compliant ride compared with offerings from BC, GAZ and such - whilst still being great on track), along with some properly lightweight alloys, titanium exhaust, carbon bonnet, lose rear seat, boot carpet etc maintaining creature comforts in the front. You might lose 50-60 kg which would be noticeable. But, if this is already considered "too uncomfortable" you might be fighting a losing battle there too.
If you can find a decent S2000 + hardtop in your budget, that might be a good shout.
My 86 was stock, so I hope coilovers and light wheels would make it much better. I do prefer rwd. My choice would be to massage the GT86 (decent quality coilovers - KW Clubsport or Ohlins R&T which should still provide a compliant ride compared with offerings from BC, GAZ and such - whilst still being great on track), along with some properly lightweight alloys, titanium exhaust, carbon bonnet, lose rear seat, boot carpet etc maintaining creature comforts in the front. You might lose 50-60 kg which would be noticeable. But, if this is already considered "too uncomfortable" you might be fighting a losing battle there too.
If you can find a decent S2000 + hardtop in your budget, that might be a good shout.
Although Megs aren't light I wonder whether they would fit my needs. Sport rather than Cup chassis. Sometimes it's not just pure weight but where the weight is and the chassis. 350Zs aren't that heavy but they feel heavier and don't like to change direction.
Despite all logic I could give a Cooper S to Lohen and the missus would tolerate much more. Women. Not my ideal but it would be a different challenge and therefore fun.
ThorB said:
Why not just put some decent suspension on the MX5? I had Koni Sport on my Mk1 and it was unbearable on the road, swapped in some MeisterR and it was transformed. Lovely and smooth ride on the road, then dial it up for trackdays, it was great.
The mx5 is dying hence need for new. Have MeisterRs and they are the best. Awesome track car. Now combining cars as per op. My ideal road-going track car is a sorted MX5 with 200hp. After this experiment I may return to that formula.
Sounds very tricky OP as your criteria are all pulling in opposite directions and issues with the badge don’t help 
What about a Mk3 Clio 200? They handle, are light and are fun out the box on track. You could pick up a nice example for say £8k leaving £2k for some mods. They are quite hard in standard form but if you fit some decent adjustable suspension to make the ride acceptable on the road plus a strut brace and some braided brake lines, it could work for you.
What about a Mk3 Clio 200? They handle, are light and are fun out the box on track. You could pick up a nice example for say £8k leaving £2k for some mods. They are quite hard in standard form but if you fit some decent adjustable suspension to make the ride acceptable on the road plus a strut brace and some braided brake lines, it could work for you.
AndrewGP said:
Sounds very tricky OP as your criteria are all pulling in opposite directions and issues with the badge don’t help
What about a Mk3 Clio 200? They handle, are light and are fun out the box on track.
Good shout. What about a Mk3 Clio 200? They handle, are light and are fun out the box on track.
I wonder whether the Meg will be too heavy for my tastes, so the 200 could be fun and comfortable.
My criteria demand some serious compromise, or clever positioning
mmm-five said:
Vauxhall VX220?
Lotus Elise?
Or maybe something a bit older/classic/lighter like an Alfa 75
Hardly fit the comfort/practical remit !?Lotus Elise?
Or maybe something a bit older/classic/lighter like an Alfa 75
Edited by mmm-five on Thursday 25th April 10:53
Already have an Elise that fills one part of the garage perfectly. That's for blasting in the hills. I prefer the playfulness of FR layout for track. Lotus are less forgiving and rather expensive to repair if the clams hit anything.
Thinking of more modern to keep things more reliable and comfortable. Running slightly older sports cars is work enough without adding Alfa into the equation!
Edited by CABC on Thursday 25th April 11:19
How practical do you need? Something to fit dogs in the boot, golf clubs, etc. or just something for the shopping.
How comfortable, is comfortable enough? I find Minis have a harsh ride compared to an Elise.
I've tracked everything from Caterhams to an 1800kg M5, and the M5 was the best for driving to & from the track, and the most comfortable/practical. But the M5 is too heavy by a long way, and is very expensive on consumables/services (think £1000/month).
Would it be easier to rule out specific subsets of vehicles?
How comfortable, is comfortable enough? I find Minis have a harsh ride compared to an Elise.
I've tracked everything from Caterhams to an 1800kg M5, and the M5 was the best for driving to & from the track, and the most comfortable/practical. But the M5 is too heavy by a long way, and is very expensive on consumables/services (think £1000/month).
Would it be easier to rule out specific subsets of vehicles?
- No lightweight 2 seater roadsters (as they're not practical enough) - Caterham, Westfield, MX5, Fiat Barchetta, Fiat/Abarth 124 Spider
- No heavier, roomier 2 seater roadsters (as they're too heavy) - S2000, BMW Z3, BMW Z4
- No 'weak' badge - Ford, Peugeot, Nissan, Skoda, etc.
- No FWD - Civic, Megane, Focus, Fiesta, etc.
is your gt86 stick or modified? i'm failing to see how that is not tolerable to anyone on the road. hardly a stiff or crashy ride.
may help if you list out your fleet but i would probably use the 86. wider wheels, coilovers, headers, intake and an ecutek tune should bring you around 230bhp with a broader power band. the tune alone is very noticeable in that regard.
may help if you list out your fleet but i would probably use the 86. wider wheels, coilovers, headers, intake and an ecutek tune should bring you around 230bhp with a broader power band. the tune alone is very noticeable in that regard.
Edited by shirt on Thursday 25th April 13:20
2gins said:
TVR Chimaera
That's a real possibility.... she quite likes them in certain colours. Leave your coat, bring up a chair. A modified 86 is the logical answer.
This car is tainted as it's been deemed uncomfortable on really bad roads - roads we often use to see family. It is true that 86 doesn't deal with uneven surfaces well. That said, if we're compromising then she has to give too!
As per my op, it's a case of normal cars that could track rather than track cars that could daily. I'll make up my annual hardcore track days with the Elise, track hire and experiences such as Palmer, Driftworks etc Hence thinking of Cooper S, not GP2 or Works, and Meg Sport not Cup.
mmm-five said:
Would it be easier to rule out specific subsets of vehicles?
Yes- No lightweight 2 seater roadsters (as they're not practical enough) - Caterham, Westfield, MX5, Fiat Barchetta, Fiat/Abarth 124 Spider
- No heavier, roomier 2 seater roadsters (as they're too heavy) - S2000, BMW Z3, BMW Z4
- No 'weak' badge - Ford, Peugeot, Nissan, Skoda, etc.
- No FWD - Civic, Megane, Focus, Fiesta, etc.
And GT86 is in the middle again!
The idea of the thread is to stimulate ideas. When compromising it's good to get left field ideas and you can then settle on something you hadn't thought of and in fact contradicts your initial thoughts! There are 2 people with different outlooks involved in this. A TVR is completely stupid. And appeals to both parties.
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