Engine overheated and died. Possible to un-seize?

Engine overheated and died. Possible to un-seize?

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Discussion

vtchequers

Original Poster:

323 posts

54 months

Friday 19th June
quotequote all
Is it possible to unseize this?

The story-

Was heading back from a round trip to Manchester from Leicester.
I was on the A50 heading toward Uttoxeter (on the way back to Leicester) when the car decided to die.
I managed to make it to a layby.
Pulled the hood and there was steam coming from the engine.
The engine temp gauge was on the red and the coolant tank was empty! the oil light was also on even though the oil level was between min and max. maybe a faulty oil pump?
The coolant tank was empty!
Called out the RAC who trailered the car back to Leicester.

Tried starting the car the next day and all I got was a clunk.

I once owned a Vauxhall Zafira MK1 that went into limp mode because of a lack of engine oil!!

Matt_E_Mulsion

583 posts

21 months

Friday 19th June
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Put simply, it sounds knackered.

chrisch77

272 posts

31 months

Friday 19th June
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Hang on a minute, I’ll just give Mystic Meg a call for you......

It would be better to ask a professional to look at your actual car and run some diagnostics rather that ask the internet for a guess. Why did the engine stop? Was it because it shut down By the electronics to protect the engine due to the overheat! Or has it actually mechanically seized? If the latter you can probably forget salvaging the engine.

stevieturbo

14,879 posts

203 months

Friday 19th June
quotequote all
chrisch77 said:
Hang on a minute, I’ll just give Mystic Meg a call for you......

It would be better to ask a professional to look at your actual car and run some diagnostics rather that ask the internet for a guess. Why did the engine stop? Was it because it shut down By the electronics to protect the engine due to the overheat! Or has it actually mechanically seized? If the latter you can probably forget salvaging the engine.
Well if you can't determine that it's fked from that explanation....

It sure as hell doesn't take a "professional" anything.

GreenV8S

28,178 posts

240 months

Friday 19th June
quotequote all
vtchequers said:
The engine temp gauge was on the red and the coolant tank was empty! the oil light was also on even though the oil level was between min and max.
You pressing on until you reached a layby probably killed the engine, even if it wasn't terminally damaged before that. Didn't you stop to think how much damage you were doing when the temperature went into the red and the oil pressure warning lamp came on?

I suggest you start planning to replace either the engine or the vehicle. You might be pleasantly surprised and find this engine can be repaired, but I wouldn't count on it. More likely the engine will be beyond economic repair, which might mean the vehicle is too.

vtchequers

Original Poster:

323 posts

54 months

Friday 19th June
quotequote all
GreenV8S said:
You pressing on until you reached a layby probably killed the engine, even if it wasn't terminally damaged before that. Didn't you stop to think how much damage you were doing when the temperature went into the red and the oil pressure warning lamp came on?
Engine switched off before coasting to the layby.
The only thing I was keeping an eye on before the engine conked out was the speedo. I hadn't noticed the temp gauge or low oil light until after popping the hood. I would've thought the computer would've kicked in to prevent damage. It didn't.

Boosted LS1

19,115 posts

216 months

Friday 19th June
quotequote all
The oil light's the killer. If you can't rotate the engine with a spanner on the crankshaft then it's probably toast. I once drove 9 miles in a saab with a burst top hose before the temp guage went off the clock alerting me to an issue. Next day I replaced the hose, filled with water and that was 5 years ago.

bearman68

2,836 posts

88 months

Friday 19th June
quotequote all
Depends on the value of the engine. What is it?

V12 Ferrari, a rebuild is on the cards. A 1.2 Corsa.....? Well, I'll let you guess.

vtchequers

Original Poster:

323 posts

54 months

Saturday 20th June
quotequote all
bearman68 said:
Depends on the value of the engine. What is it?

V12 Ferrari, a rebuild is on the cards. A 1.2 Corsa.....? Well, I'll let you guess.
It's a Chrysler Voyager (Startech) 2.4 CRD

vtchequers

Original Poster:

323 posts

54 months

Saturday 20th June
quotequote all
Boosted LS1 said:
The oil light's the killer. If you can't rotate the engine with a spanner on the crankshaft then it's probably toast. I once drove 9 miles in a saab with a burst top hose before the temp guage went off the clock alerting me to an issue. Next day I replaced the hose, filled with water and that was 5 years ago.
Just tried it. it won't budge. definitely toast at the moment!

aka_kerrly

11,361 posts

166 months

Saturday 20th June
quotequote all
vtchequers said:
The only thing I was keeping an eye on before the engine conked out was the speedo.

I hadn't noticed the temp gauge or low oil light until after popping the hood. I would've thought the computer would've kicked in to prevent damage. It didn't.
Driving around hoping the ECU is clever enough to stop the engine before terminal damage occurs is unfortunately a tad naive.

I appreciate that most modern cars not having gauges for oil temperature and pressure even coolant temperature in some cars does make it harder for the driver to know what's going on until tonnes of steam or smokey oil vapours make an appearance. It annoys me, I like to think I know all the temps my cars run at an find checking oil/coolant temps part of my normal driving routine.

The clunk of the starter trying despiratly to turn your engine could well be total death from a seizure , no oil pressure an no collant is a terrible combination. I'd try turning the engine by hand an going from there in terms of how much of the engine to remove before deciding if its better to buy a complete engine or whole new car depending on your budget/timescale/diy or paying a mechanic.

Or to be positive you could be seriously lucky and have a flat battery, was your battery light on when the engine was running/overheating.... check your accessory belts, a snapped belt might run the alternator and water pump so it could be a case of belt+fresh coolant+charged battery an go.


stevieturbo

14,879 posts

203 months

Saturday 20th June
quotequote all
vtchequers said:
Engine switched off before coasting to the layby.
The only thing I was keeping an eye on before the engine conked out was the speedo. I hadn't noticed the temp gauge or low oil light until after popping the hood. I would've thought the computer would've kicked in to prevent damage. It didn't.
Like the two big warnings you already ignored wasnt enough ?

The computer doesnt override those intent on destroying

bearman68

2,836 posts

88 months

Saturday 20th June
quotequote all
aka_kerrly said:
The clunk of the starter trying despiratly to turn your engine could well be total death from a seizure , no oil pressure an no collant is a terrible combination. I'd try turning the engine by hand an going from there in terms of how much of the engine to remove before deciding if its better to buy a complete engine or whole new car depending on your budget/timescale/diy or paying a mechanic.

Or to be positive you could be seriously lucky and have a flat battery, was your battery light on when the engine was running/overheating.... check your accessory belts, a snapped belt might run the alternator and water pump so it could be a case of belt+fresh coolant+charged battery an go.
Good advice - turn it by hand and see if it's seized. I wouldn't worry too much about the oil pressure at this stage - the oil has probably got thin because it's too hot, and dropped the pressure, but there should still be some lubrication properties there (had a Jeep that would bring the oil pressure light on all the time, and was fine for 120k miles). But realistically, I would be surprised if the head had not suffered due to coolant loss, and the engine is scrap. If the engine is bad, I would be tempted to scrap it for a replacement. Best of luck.

kambites

59,495 posts

177 months

Saturday 20th June
quotequote all
It rather depends whether it overheated due to a complete lack of oil pressure (in which case the cheapest solution will probably be a new engine), or the oil pressure dropped slightly due to it overheating (in which case it might be fairly heap to repair).

By and large, if the engine is jammed it's dead. If you can turn it over (using a long breaker bar on the crank nut) it may not be too catastrophically damaged, although as above it might still have suffered pretty severe damage.


ETA: Ah I see you've tried to turn it over by hand. If the crank won't budge at all, it's dead. If it shifts a bit and then feels as if it's coming up against a sort of sprung stop, you'd just hot pushing hard enough to overcome compression.


When it "died" did it lock up (which would have locked the driven wheels) or just stop running but still turn over?


Edited by kambites on Saturday 20th June 10:44

vtchequers

Original Poster:

323 posts

54 months

Saturday 20th June
quotequote all
kambites said:
When it "died" did it lock up (which would have locked the driven wheels) or just stop running but still turn over?
It didn't lock up. It coasted in gear until I took it out of gear.

vtchequers

Original Poster:

323 posts

54 months

Saturday 20th June
quotequote all
What's the science behind taking out the injectors and putting a spoon full of diesel down each barrel? How does it get past the rings?
I've googled but can't find any answers.

bearman68

2,836 posts

88 months

Saturday 20th June
quotequote all
vtchequers said:
What's the science behind taking out the injectors and putting a spoon full of diesel down each barrel? How does it get past the rings?
I've googled but can't find any answers.
Not a lot in your case. hehe.

In some cases, where the engine has been standing for some time (Or if the engine has been horizontally stored on a pallet for example, they can occasionally loose compression. So a slurp of engine oil down the hole can restore compression as it seals the small gap between the piston and the cylinder.

Hammer67

4,492 posts

140 months

Saturday 20th June
quotequote all
Where did the coolant go?

You may have a cylinder or 2 full of coolant which is hydraulically stopping the engine from turning.

Might be worth whipping the plugs/injectors out and then try spinning it over.

vtchequers

Original Poster:

323 posts

54 months

Saturday 20th June
quotequote all
Hammer67 said:
Where did the coolant go?


The spout the arrow's pointing at.

Hammer67

4,492 posts

140 months

Saturday 20th June
quotequote all
vtchequers said:
Hammer67 said:
Where did the coolant go?


The spout the arrow's pointing at.


In which case you`re up st creek I would suggest.

Looking at the image I`ve found, that looks to be an engine breather valve in the rocker cover that feeds engine fumes back through the air intake to be re burnt.

If you have coolant coming out of there it`s Donald Ducked.