Changed injector wouldnt start
Discussion
Hi all.
I changed the injector on my combo van 1.7 cdti after it eventually came out after lots of plusgas... failed to get other 3 out for a clean. But main offender changed.
Anyway back together and try to start the van and got a horrible noise and loads of water force it's way out the header tank...
Now I can only think that it was all the plus gas ? Maybe found it's way into the cylinders !
I left it for a few Monday and after each short turn over it started to sound better and better.. eventually it fired. Bit of steam for a few miles but its seems fine now and has stopped.
Am I right in thinking it was maybe excess plusgas ? I just hope I havent done any damage .
I changed the injector on my combo van 1.7 cdti after it eventually came out after lots of plusgas... failed to get other 3 out for a clean. But main offender changed.
Anyway back together and try to start the van and got a horrible noise and loads of water force it's way out the header tank...
Now I can only think that it was all the plus gas ? Maybe found it's way into the cylinders !
I left it for a few Monday and after each short turn over it started to sound better and better.. eventually it fired. Bit of steam for a few miles but its seems fine now and has stopped.
Am I right in thinking it was maybe excess plusgas ? I just hope I havent done any damage .
This has been covered here before, and I did it myself a few years back.
Presumably you tried to rotate the injector to remove it ?...which is a massive no no.
You've likely broken the injector sleeve which sits ( is pressed into ) into the cylinder head which seals the combustion chamber, but also part of the cooling system route, and then crankcase via 2 o-rings, as you can see where the grooves are.
And obviously the injector sits down into this where the copper injector seal resides ( noting the 2 stage torque process for the injector clamp, otherwise it will come loose in a very short period of time )
This sleeve will tolerate you pulling the injector out...but it's very thin at the bottom and will not tolerate you trying to rotate a stuck injector at all. It will break and it will then allow coolant down into the combustion chamber.
Injectors need coded to the ecu after fitting.
The above is pretty much the only way pressure will get into the cooling system from changing an injector ( and likewise, water into the chamber )
In no way could plusgas cause the engine to push water out the header. Although yes for a brief period it may cause issue during starting
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
Presumably you tried to rotate the injector to remove it ?...which is a massive no no.
You've likely broken the injector sleeve which sits ( is pressed into ) into the cylinder head which seals the combustion chamber, but also part of the cooling system route, and then crankcase via 2 o-rings, as you can see where the grooves are.
And obviously the injector sits down into this where the copper injector seal resides ( noting the 2 stage torque process for the injector clamp, otherwise it will come loose in a very short period of time )
This sleeve will tolerate you pulling the injector out...but it's very thin at the bottom and will not tolerate you trying to rotate a stuck injector at all. It will break and it will then allow coolant down into the combustion chamber.
Injectors need coded to the ecu after fitting.
The above is pretty much the only way pressure will get into the cooling system from changing an injector ( and likewise, water into the chamber )
In no way could plusgas cause the engine to push water out the header. Although yes for a brief period it may cause issue during starting
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
Right I see, yes I did try twisting the injectors to get them out. Just turned didnt mange to get those out at all.
Not sure what to do now, its driving fine and I couldn't hear any chuffing with oil cap off. Will have another listen.
Will I know if I needed to replace the sleeves?
How can this be done without removing the head?
Or cant it?
I think I have torque up the injectors correctly.
Thanks
Not sure what to do now, its driving fine and I couldn't hear any chuffing with oil cap off. Will have another listen.
Will I know if I needed to replace the sleeves?
How can this be done without removing the head?
Or cant it?
I think I have torque up the injectors correctly.
Thanks
Is it no longer using or losing coolant, or pressurising the cooling system ?
If it is, somehow you've maybe dodged a bullet. If there is no chuffing via the oil cap, then the injector seals are probably ok.
But as said, make sure you did the 2 stage torque process for the injector clamps or they will come loose. ( I didnt at first, but only found the loose clamps initially because the bloody boxed Denso injectors I got...where anything but and gave no end of trouble )
Potentially it is possible to do the sleeves with the head on the car. Vaux do list tools to enable it. But it will depend how stuck or not the sleeves are.
In my case I'd no idea what happened at first so I removed the head, and then found out as I went what I'd done.
So it was easy for me to remove the broken bit because the head was off....I'd think it could be quite tricky with the head on the engine
If it is, somehow you've maybe dodged a bullet. If there is no chuffing via the oil cap, then the injector seals are probably ok.
But as said, make sure you did the 2 stage torque process for the injector clamps or they will come loose. ( I didnt at first, but only found the loose clamps initially because the bloody boxed Denso injectors I got...where anything but and gave no end of trouble )
Potentially it is possible to do the sleeves with the head on the car. Vaux do list tools to enable it. But it will depend how stuck or not the sleeves are.
In my case I'd no idea what happened at first so I removed the head, and then found out as I went what I'd done.
So it was easy for me to remove the broken bit because the head was off....I'd think it could be quite tricky with the head on the engine
Thanks for replying. The short drive i took to on ot didn't appear to use any water or oil after I topped it up. And there isnt any blowback or noise with oil filler cap off either.
(Video attached)
I do have a mobile mechanic coming round tomorrow to try remove the other injectors which are spinning In the sleeve, id like to get the rest cleaned ideally I havent tried a slide hammer the way they feel loose I think they may come all be it stuck on injectors.
Or shall I not risk it? And leave alone to see if it causes issues then sort it ?
What you recommend ? I know I will have to replace the sleeves regardless but imagine these can be knocked in without removing head.
Cheers chris
(Video attached)
I do have a mobile mechanic coming round tomorrow to try remove the other injectors which are spinning In the sleeve, id like to get the rest cleaned ideally I havent tried a slide hammer the way they feel loose I think they may come all be it stuck on injectors.
Or shall I not risk it? And leave alone to see if it causes issues then sort it ?
What you recommend ? I know I will have to replace the sleeves regardless but imagine these can be knocked in without removing head.
Cheers chris
Edited by chriz1 on Wednesday 24th June 19:13
Part of the issue is having the tool to remove it.
It needs to insert down through into the chamber, then grab the sleeve in order to pull it out. And that isnt a very big hole.
As said, I think Vaux offer a tool for doing it ( well, for their dealers, whether they'd ever offer it to the public is another matter )
But potentially yes if you can remove it, fitting new sleeves will be easy.
Drain the cooling system before attempting so water from the head doesnt get down into the chamber. And the tool to press them back in, drives via the nozzle seat, not the top of the sleeve.
The sleeve itself is very thin down at the nozzle seat, which is why it can break so easily.
It is also possible the sleeves may pull out with the injectors.
Obviously you'd need the sleeves, new injectors, new o-rings throughout. 2 outside the sleeve, and 1 inside for the injector, as well as the copper washer for the injector nozzle.
Removing the head isnt a terrible job...but it sure as hell isnt nice, although it does give you a chance to clean the head up, intake etc, as it will be clogged full of carbon and gunk. Not that it seems to affect performance.
It needs to insert down through into the chamber, then grab the sleeve in order to pull it out. And that isnt a very big hole.
As said, I think Vaux offer a tool for doing it ( well, for their dealers, whether they'd ever offer it to the public is another matter )
But potentially yes if you can remove it, fitting new sleeves will be easy.
Drain the cooling system before attempting so water from the head doesnt get down into the chamber. And the tool to press them back in, drives via the nozzle seat, not the top of the sleeve.
The sleeve itself is very thin down at the nozzle seat, which is why it can break so easily.
It is also possible the sleeves may pull out with the injectors.
Obviously you'd need the sleeves, new injectors, new o-rings throughout. 2 outside the sleeve, and 1 inside for the injector, as well as the copper washer for the injector nozzle.
Removing the head isnt a terrible job...but it sure as hell isnt nice, although it does give you a chance to clean the head up, intake etc, as it will be clogged full of carbon and gunk. Not that it seems to affect performance.
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