Rogue washer.

[Ralphypants]

Question to all. If you accidentally dropped a washer 12mm with 8mm hole down you inlet manifold on a type 1 vw air cooled engine, then fired it up, how long would it be before you noticed a problem? (Answers in distance or time) And what damage would you expect?
Many thanks
Colin.

[underwhelmist]

I wouldn't start it up. I imagine you would hear some very upsetting and potentially expensive noises fairly quickly.

Are you saying you think you might have dropped a washer down the inlet but you're not sure, and you're wondering if starting the engine is a good diagnostic technique?

I think you can get endoscope type things that connect to either your iPhone or a laptop, get one of those and shove it down the sparkplug holes to see if there's anything there.

[Dont like rolls]

go fishing via the spark plug hole with a magnet (with a hole in it) on a string pushed in on some welding wire....being an alloy head you may get lucky and pick up the washer when you pull it out.

[leggly]

It a VW, there are millions of them. Redline it in every gear and get back to us with the results.

Edited by leggly on Friday 24th July 00:32

[donkmeister]

Removing and refitting the inlet manifold isn't a pig of a job on the Beetle. Plenty of how-tos on the internet. As you've managed to drop a washer down there, I assume you already know how to remove the carb!

I doubt a washer would have got all the way to the cylinder as it would be a pretty big fluke that it found itself at the one cylinder with an open inlet valve and managed to get through. Nothing to lose but it just seems unlikely that you'll find the washer by taking out the plugs and fishing with a magnet.

[Dont like rolls]

donkmeister said:

Removing and refitting the inlet manifold isn't a pig of a job on the Beetle. Plenty of how-tos on the internet. As you've managed to drop a washer down there, I assume you already know how to remove the carb!

I doubt a washer would have got all the way to the cylinder as it would be a pretty big fluke that it found itself at the one cylinder with an open inlet valve and managed to get through. Nothing to lose but it just seems unlikely that you'll find the washer by taking out the plugs and fishing with a magnet.

I have.....took a few times/wiggles, took little effort....I got lucky may be but he might also...

[LooneyTunes]

donkmeister said:

I doubt a washer would have got all the way to the cylinder as it would be a pretty big fluke that it found itself at the one cylinder with an open inlet valve and managed to get through.

It might not be in the cylinder yet but surely there’s a risk it’ll end up either in there or damaging the valves at some point? I’d want to find it...

[Tim bo]

leggly said:

It a VW, there are millions of them. Redline it in every gear and get back to us with the results.

Either sarcasm, or the poster is unaware that there are certainly not millions of VW's Type 1 air-cooled engines left on the road. Far from it.

Edited by Tim bo on Friday 24th July 07:19

[Bill]

Dont like rolls said:

go fishing via the spark plug hole with a magnet (with a hole in it) on a string pushed in on some welding wire....being an alloy head you may get lucky and pick up the washer when you pull it out.

I think you'd struggle to get a 12mm washer through the spark plug hole.

Borescopes are cheap as chips OP... I've had a loose body of some sort in a T2 engine and it trashed the valve, head and cylinder but I have no idea when it fell in. I imagine a 12mm washer would make a right mess assuming it managed to pass the valve. Best case is it's still in the head gently rubbing away at the valve.

I have one of these: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Inspection-Depstech-Water...

[mike-v2tmf]

I have done this ........and I ended up taking the engine out and removing the right hand cylinder head to get the damned washer out .

[Dont like rolls]

Bill said:

I think you'd struggle to get a 12mm washer through the spark plug hole.

Borescopes are cheap as chips OP... I've had a loose body of some sort in a T2 engine and it trashed the valve, head and cylinder but I have no idea when it fell in. I imagine a 12mm washer would make a right mess assuming it managed to pass the valve. Best case is it's still in the head gently rubbing away at the valve.

I have one of these: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Inspection-Depstech-Water...

I skim read it, my bad.

Fish down the hole it dropped in then.....

[Evoluzione]

It'll do its damage within seconds or minutes of start up.

[oakdale]

If it's got the standard singe carb setup, there are long horizontal runs on the manifold if I remember correctly.

If the washer hasn't already got into the engine, you should be able to easily remove the carb and fish it out with flexible magnetic pick up tool if you're careful.

[Ralphypants]

Ok, I will give you a bit more info now. I removed my twin 40s for cleaning purposes as the car was running poorly. Refitted them and it’s still running rough. Tried the usual adjustments , then a 5 minute test drive. No improvement. I booked the car in with a very highly recommend vw mechanic. I drove 23 miles taking 43 minutes. On arrival his partner test drove the car for 5 minutes, on his return he asked his mate to get in. Another 5 minute drive. On their return I was told it was a carb issue and timing, also jets could be wrong. I leave it with them, after 3 weeks I messaged them. No reply. 4 days later I phone, no reply. Next day, phone again and I get a reply saying sorry for not answering but been busy and we will be test driving the car later and you can collect the day after.
I get a call 1 hour later, we have a problem. “We drove up the road and it made a horrible noise, so we pushed it back”. A broken tip of a pushrod has been found and the engine has now been dissembled. A washer has been found embedded in the head, bent in half. The piston is broken in half. Thing is it is me that has been accused or blamed of dropping the washer in the manifold. I took a photo of the head and counted approximately 200 marks and 1 nasty dent causing the piston to break. 43 minutes at revs 700 - 3500 I don’t think so.
Your thoughts please.

[Penelope Stopit]

12mm with 8mm???

Surely the above washer came from somewhere, next thing to check is did you work on the area that the washer came from and do you remember not re-fitting it

[oakdale]

I assume it's running on IDA carbs then?

In which case, I would think the washer would go straight into the cylinder on start up because there's nowhere else for it to go.

The washer could get embedded in the piston at first and then cause further damage later if and when it becomes loose.

[gazza285]

I would have said it would be pretty much instantaneous, inlet manifolds are pretty draughty, it would be drawn in in no time.

[stevieturbo]

The thread makes no sense.

So are you saying that YOU dropped this washer in and were fully aware of it...but still drove it ?

Or are you saying that they did this ?

Where was the washer from, and when did you notice it not where it's supposed to be ? Or how has this whole scenario come about ? Or did nobody notice, and it's just what has allegedly been found inside ?

And anything dropped into the inlet manifold will very quickly find it's way into the engine to cause harm

Edited by stevieturbo on Friday 24th July 19:53

[GreenV8S]

stevieturbo said:

Or did nobody notice, and it's just want has allegedly been found inside ?

I believe that's the situation - the engine has major damage now, apparently caused by a washer in the cylinder. The OP is accused of having dropped it into the intake, which would mean the engine ran for 45 minutes before the damage became obvious. It seems unlikely to me.

[stevieturbo]

On some engines, potentially a large enough washer might....just might take some time to pass the valve simple because it may almost not be big enough.

But we need more info.

Why was it driven if the washer was noticed missing ? Or was it not noticed ?

Why were these "mechanics" out taking multiple test drives with their friends ? What was the issue that they felt the need to do this ?

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