Engine Rebuild/New Engine - BMW M140i - Essex
Discussion
Hi all,
need an engine rebuild or replacement for my 2016 BMW M140i.
I am getting wildly different quotes:
Firm A is in Rainham, Essex. They quoted £5500 + VAT for replacement with a reconditioned, 0 km engine. However, they told me in their email of offer if they find that the current engine has, say, a crack in the head, it will cost more as they can't use the existing engine. Seem professional.
Firm B is also in Rainham. Not sure I liked the sales tone. Offers a used, but "low mileage" engine installed, £6000. Reconditioned at 0 miles much more. Awaiting info on whether the "low mileage" engine has warranty and whether this includes VAT or not. When I told them about Firm A he told me it cannot be, they would sell below cost, etc. Offered to send pics of engine to show he is kosher, not sure what's the use.
Firm C is *also* In Rainham. Lots of "you know what I mean". Immediately tells me my engine is 90% completely gone and must be thrown away. Reconditioned engine installed for £4000 including VAT, 12 months warranty, unlimited mileage. Strange conversation ("Do you offer a warranty?" "How much do you want? Yeah, I can give you twelve months"). Will send email tomorrow because he stops working at 3 pm. The cheapest but most colourful.
Firm D does not install (I think) new or used engines, they are an apparently reputed workshop in Dartford. They seem very professional on the phone, no hard sales talk and no "the other people are crooked". They refuse to give any indication of cost without seeing the car. They would try to work on the actual engine instead of installing a new one.
The issue: water infiltration in engine, some rust on the camshaft. Engine tries to start but doesn't, no idea if only a matter of changing gasket of cylinder head and working on piston-cylinders or whole engine to bethrown away, no way to check whatever I am told, either.
Any thoughts? First time I do this so I don't know what I am dealing with here, also no idea of fair prices in the market.
Thanks to all
Omobono
need an engine rebuild or replacement for my 2016 BMW M140i.
I am getting wildly different quotes:
Firm A is in Rainham, Essex. They quoted £5500 + VAT for replacement with a reconditioned, 0 km engine. However, they told me in their email of offer if they find that the current engine has, say, a crack in the head, it will cost more as they can't use the existing engine. Seem professional.
Firm B is also in Rainham. Not sure I liked the sales tone. Offers a used, but "low mileage" engine installed, £6000. Reconditioned at 0 miles much more. Awaiting info on whether the "low mileage" engine has warranty and whether this includes VAT or not. When I told them about Firm A he told me it cannot be, they would sell below cost, etc. Offered to send pics of engine to show he is kosher, not sure what's the use.
Firm C is *also* In Rainham. Lots of "you know what I mean". Immediately tells me my engine is 90% completely gone and must be thrown away. Reconditioned engine installed for £4000 including VAT, 12 months warranty, unlimited mileage. Strange conversation ("Do you offer a warranty?" "How much do you want? Yeah, I can give you twelve months"). Will send email tomorrow because he stops working at 3 pm. The cheapest but most colourful.
Firm D does not install (I think) new or used engines, they are an apparently reputed workshop in Dartford. They seem very professional on the phone, no hard sales talk and no "the other people are crooked". They refuse to give any indication of cost without seeing the car. They would try to work on the actual engine instead of installing a new one.
The issue: water infiltration in engine, some rust on the camshaft. Engine tries to start but doesn't, no idea if only a matter of changing gasket of cylinder head and working on piston-cylinders or whole engine to bethrown away, no way to check whatever I am told, either.
Any thoughts? First time I do this so I don't know what I am dealing with here, also no idea of fair prices in the market.
Thanks to all
Omobono
Hi
Avoid garden shed people whose idea of recon is 30 minutes with pressure washer. Note their post code and then google map them on satellite. I just got a recon diesel engine from a reliable source but it was amazing how many London area quotes came in from terraced houses. So check, check and check again
Rob
Avoid garden shed people whose idea of recon is 30 minutes with pressure washer. Note their post code and then google map them on satellite. I just got a recon diesel engine from a reliable source but it was amazing how many London area quotes came in from terraced houses. So check, check and check again
Rob
Omobono said:
The issue: water infiltration in engine, some rust on the camshaft. Engine tries to start but doesn't, no idea if only a matter of changing gasket of cylinder head and working on piston-cylinders or whole engine to bethrown away, no way to check whatever I am told, either.
What actually happened to the engine? Water infiltration? Did it ingest water through the inlet, did it get in because it was left out in the rain with the rocker cover off? Head gasket failure? Give us a blow-by-blow on what happened
How many miles on it?
Hi,
I posted on the matter in April. Engine started to stutter and vibrate, then all was fine for a week and I thought of an electronic gremlin, then it did it again. I was at BMW and their idea is to follow a "procedure" and exchange everything until they find the issue, they charge you £180/hour for the privilege. They wanted to give me a new cat for £1200 but I said no. I drive car at home again, but next day engine goes off and car does not start anymore. Car towed to my parking space. Mobile mechanic comes in and disconnects cat from engine as if it is the cat that is clogged, the engine will start regularly (BMW does not have it in their procedures).
No dice. He then looks at the engine and finds water and signs of rust in the headcam. Likely the head gasket failed. Biggest issue here is, as I see it, whether in these cases it is common and feasible to make an engine rebuild or the damage has extended to the head and I likely need a new engine. I love the car though I drive very little (3000 miles a year, less with the pandemic), it's my forever car as I love manual cars and want to keep this all through the age of automatic/electric cars and to my old age.
I can spend if it's necessary, but I want to avoid being exploited because finance guy/suit and tie/"he will buy whatever I tell him". I don't have a princely income but I save £3000 a month, I will make the sacrifice and "cry once" (0 mile engine) if I have to and it helps to keep the car I love for a long time, but needs to know I am not being taken advantage of.
I can't gauge at all how likely it is that the head is cracked/the rebuild way is practicable. The car was used properly and never mistreated, but I drove for a while (eg from BMW dealer to home) with the engine stuttering when I thought it was the cat clogged, with some revving of the engine .
I posted on the matter in April. Engine started to stutter and vibrate, then all was fine for a week and I thought of an electronic gremlin, then it did it again. I was at BMW and their idea is to follow a "procedure" and exchange everything until they find the issue, they charge you £180/hour for the privilege. They wanted to give me a new cat for £1200 but I said no. I drive car at home again, but next day engine goes off and car does not start anymore. Car towed to my parking space. Mobile mechanic comes in and disconnects cat from engine as if it is the cat that is clogged, the engine will start regularly (BMW does not have it in their procedures).
No dice. He then looks at the engine and finds water and signs of rust in the headcam. Likely the head gasket failed. Biggest issue here is, as I see it, whether in these cases it is common and feasible to make an engine rebuild or the damage has extended to the head and I likely need a new engine. I love the car though I drive very little (3000 miles a year, less with the pandemic), it's my forever car as I love manual cars and want to keep this all through the age of automatic/electric cars and to my old age.
I can spend if it's necessary, but I want to avoid being exploited because finance guy/suit and tie/"he will buy whatever I tell him". I don't have a princely income but I save £3000 a month, I will make the sacrifice and "cry once" (0 mile engine) if I have to and it helps to keep the car I love for a long time, but needs to know I am not being taken advantage of.
I can't gauge at all how likely it is that the head is cracked/the rebuild way is practicable. The car was used properly and never mistreated, but I drove for a while (eg from BMW dealer to home) with the engine stuttering when I thought it was the cat clogged, with some revving of the engine .
Edited by Omobono on Thursday 10th June 16:13
Hi and thanks for your answer.
No overheating.
Problem manifested with vibration to the engine, transmitted to gear stick. Message went on saying "you can keep driving, drivetrain issue, have car seen".
Again, at a point the problem disappeared (the light too) so I thought it might be a gremlin, then it reappeared again and it was worse.
No overheating.
Problem manifested with vibration to the engine, transmitted to gear stick. Message went on saying "you can keep driving, drivetrain issue, have car seen".
Again, at a point the problem disappeared (the light too) so I thought it might be a gremlin, then it reappeared again and it was worse.
Repairing or replacing the cylinder head with the engine in situ is much less invasive and expensive. I share your distrust of ‘refurbished’ engine suppliers.
Thanks: so if the cylinder head is gone it can be replaced? They will not tell me "this engine is gone and you have to throw it away"? This would be very important to me as at this point I think I would have the certainty that the engine can be remade without spending 5-6-7 grand... Can you confirm? (at least as life generally goes?)
Thanks: so if the cylinder head is gone it can be replaced? They will not tell me "this engine is gone and you have to throw it away"? This would be very important to me as at this point I think I would have the certainty that the engine can be remade without spending 5-6-7 grand... Can you confirm? (at least as life generally goes?)
If the Dartford garage is Crago's they've done a lot of work for me in the past (inc a gearbox rebuild etc on my E39 540i) and know they regularly do what looks like major engine surgery from the pictures - they'd be my go-to as a quality outfit who should stand behind what they have done.
Omobono said:
Hi,
I posted on the matter in April. Engine started to stutter and vibrate, then all was fine for a week and I thought of an electronic gremlin, then it did it again. I was at BMW and their idea is to follow a "procedure" and exchange everything until they find the issue, they charge you £180/hour for the privilege. They wanted to give me a new cat for £1200 but I said no. I drive car at home again, but next day engine goes off and car does not start anymore. Car towed to my parking space. Mobile mechanic comes in and disconnects cat from engine as if it is the cat that is clogged, the engine will start regularly (BMW does not have it in their procedures).
No dice. He then looks at the engine and finds water and signs of rust in the headcam. Likely the head gasket failed. Biggest issue here is, as I see it, whether in these cases it is common and feasible to make an engine rebuild or the damage has extended to the head and I likely need a new engine. I love the car though I drive very little (3000 miles a year, less with the pandemic), it's my forever car as I love manual cars and want to keep this all through the age of automatic/electric cars and to my old age.
I can spend if it's necessary, but I want to avoid being exploited because finance guy/suit and tie/"he will buy whatever I tell him". I don't have a princely income but I save £3000 a month, I will make the sacrifice and "cry once" (0 mile engine) if I have to and it helps to keep the car I love for a long time, but needs to know I am not being taken advantage of.
I can't gauge at all how likely it is that the head is cracked/the rebuild way is practicable. The car was used properly and never mistreated, but I drove for a while (eg from BMW dealer to home) with the engine stuttering when I thought it was the cat clogged, with some revving of the engine .
This yet again seems like one of those utterly insane threads with rabbit out of a hat diagnosis from dealers, on top of their magical charges for a fake rabbit.I posted on the matter in April. Engine started to stutter and vibrate, then all was fine for a week and I thought of an electronic gremlin, then it did it again. I was at BMW and their idea is to follow a "procedure" and exchange everything until they find the issue, they charge you £180/hour for the privilege. They wanted to give me a new cat for £1200 but I said no. I drive car at home again, but next day engine goes off and car does not start anymore. Car towed to my parking space. Mobile mechanic comes in and disconnects cat from engine as if it is the cat that is clogged, the engine will start regularly (BMW does not have it in their procedures).
No dice. He then looks at the engine and finds water and signs of rust in the headcam. Likely the head gasket failed. Biggest issue here is, as I see it, whether in these cases it is common and feasible to make an engine rebuild or the damage has extended to the head and I likely need a new engine. I love the car though I drive very little (3000 miles a year, less with the pandemic), it's my forever car as I love manual cars and want to keep this all through the age of automatic/electric cars and to my old age.
I can spend if it's necessary, but I want to avoid being exploited because finance guy/suit and tie/"he will buy whatever I tell him". I don't have a princely income but I save £3000 a month, I will make the sacrifice and "cry once" (0 mile engine) if I have to and it helps to keep the car I love for a long time, but needs to know I am not being taken advantage of.
I can't gauge at all how likely it is that the head is cracked/the rebuild way is practicable. The car was used properly and never mistreated, but I drove for a while (eg from BMW dealer to home) with the engine stuttering when I thought it was the cat clogged, with some revving of the engine .
Edited by Omobono on Thursday 10th June 16:13
Where are things now ? Does the vehicle start ? run ? fly ? nothing ? Is it in one piece ?
And signs of water/rust in the "headcam" ??? You have not mentioned the engine using any water or overheating ? ( and I'll accept "headcam" as a misunderstanding somewhere )
None of this is making much sense.
Although they're a tuning firm, you could try giving TDI a call ?
https://www.tdi-plc.com/contact-us/
But deeming it needs a complete engine seems rather extreme
Omobono said:
The issue: water infiltration in engine, some rust on the camshaft. Engine tries to start but doesn't, no idea if only a matter of changing gasket of cylinder head and working on piston-cylinders or whole engine to bethrown away, no way to check whatever I am told, either.
Any thoughts? First time I do this so I don't know what I am dealing with here, also no idea of fair prices in the market.
Thanks to all
Omobono
And it is very easy to do a number of checks to eliminate a crazy diagnosis from fools.Any thoughts? First time I do this so I don't know what I am dealing with here, also no idea of fair prices in the market.
Thanks to all
Omobono
OP - I sincerely recommend you at least have a conversation with Bensten Motors in St Ives, Cambs. I've been having my BMWs serviced there for 15 years or so and they've always been excellent.
They are a BMW specialist. Granted that they're an hour away but it's more critical that the job is done properly than done locally.
Another company you could talk to is CB Autoservices in Earls Colne. Came recommended by another PHer and though I've not had work done there yet they are very approachable and seem to play with a straight bat. Also BMW specialists by training.
Based on your description, I think you need a more detailed appraisal of what the actual problem is than you currently have.
They are a BMW specialist. Granted that they're an hour away but it's more critical that the job is done properly than done locally.
Another company you could talk to is CB Autoservices in Earls Colne. Came recommended by another PHer and though I've not had work done there yet they are very approachable and seem to play with a straight bat. Also BMW specialists by training.
Based on your description, I think you need a more detailed appraisal of what the actual problem is than you currently have.
kiethton said:
If the Dartford garage is Crago's they've done a lot of work for me in the past (inc a gearbox rebuild etc on my E39 540i) and know they regularly do what looks like major engine surgery from the pictures - they'd be my go-to as a quality outfit who should stand behind what they have done.
Ah, you might not be very far from the truth there! I spoke to them on the phone several times and, again, they are the (only) rebuild option I am considering because of the professional impression they made. My main concerns is always that someone would profit from my relative inexperience and white collar job. Your mention of them in such terms is, actually, extremely encouraging. CG2020UK said:
Omobono have you considered maybe just declaring it as an insurance write off and picking up another one?
I’d imagine it would be significantly cheaper.
Not sure what you are meaning? I’d imagine it would be significantly cheaper.
I have a comp insurance, but I doubt it covers what is, it seems, act of God on the engine. No one went against me, I did not go against anyone. I will not declare or do anything even remotely wrong or false.
EDIT: I see now you had already answered. OK, that option is officially out
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