Oil - You get what you pay for!

Oil - You get what you pay for!

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opieoilman

Original Poster:

4,408 posts

235 months

Tuesday 22nd November 2005
quotequote all
I posted this a very long time ago but for the benefit of the newer members and those that missed it first time around, some enlightening facts from and expert!

A word of caution – You get what you pay for!

Below is an article written by John Rowland, Silkolene Chief R & D Chemist for 40 years.

Quote:

Costs of synthetics vary considerably. The most expensive are the “Ester” types originally only used in jet engines. These cost 6 to 10 times more than high quality mineral oils. The cheapest synthetics are not really synthetic at all, from a chemists point of view. These are in fact specially refined light viscosity mineral oils known as “hydrocracked”. These have some advantages over equivalent mineral oils, particularly in lower viscosity motor oils such as 5w-30 or other oils with a low “W” rating such as 5w-50 etc and they cost about 1.5 times more than good quality mineral fractions.

We use several different grades of this base oil, where appropriate. This is the “synthetic” which is always used in cheap oils that are labelled “synthetic”.

Yes it’s a cruel world, you get what you pay for!

Now, you may ask, why are these special mineral oils called “synthetic”?

Well, it was all sorted in a legal battle that took place in the USA about ten years ago. Sound reasons (including evidence from a Nobel Prize winning chemist) were disregarded and the final ruling was that certain mineral bases that had undergone extra chemical treatments could be called “synthetic”.

Needless to say, the marketing executives wet their knickers with pure delight!
They realised that this meant, and still does, that the critical buzz-word “synthetic” could be printed on a can of cheap oil provided that the contents included a few percent of “hydrocracked” mineral oil, at a cost of quite literally a few pence.

So, the chemistry of “synthetics” is complex and so is the politics!

The economics are very simple. If you like the look of a smart well-marketed can with “synthetic” printed on it, fair enough, it will not cost you a lot; and now you know why this is the case.

But, if you drive a high performance car, and you intend to keep it for several years, and maybe do the odd “track day”, then you need a genuine Ester/PAO (Poly Alpha Olefin) synthetic oil.

This oil costs more money to buy, because it costs us a lot of money to make, very simply, you always get what you pay for!

Unquote:

This article is something that all car owners should read and understand before buying oil and I’ve posted this with Johns permission.

Cheers
Guy

mongoose

4,360 posts

254 months

Tuesday 22nd November 2005
quotequote all
Guy,would you choose Motul over Silkolene if the price were the same?Ive been wondering how you can tell how much easther you get/which is best?I'm running a slightly modded griff 500 and currently using the pro's' 10/50 i bought from you,but was wondering wheather changing to the Motul might be better?I have a service coming up mid December.Cheers,Mike

opieoilman

Original Poster:

4,408 posts

235 months

Tuesday 22nd November 2005
quotequote all
mongoose said:
Guy,would you choose Motul over Silkolene if the price were the same?Ive been wondering how you can tell how much easther you get/which is best?I'm running a slightly modded griff 500 and currently using the pro's' 10/50 i bought from you,but was wondering wheather changing to the Motul might be better?I have a service coming up mid December.Cheers,Mike


Price does not come into my thinking it's the quality and our experience over the years with the oils and.............happy Customers!

They are both great oils. Nothing to choose through chemical analysis so don't be put off by either.....They're both better than 95% of the oils out there.

I would choose Silkolene personally as I know the Chemist and what the oil is capable of.

We have this oil in 1000bhp Skylines and 800bhp Cosworths (well known ones) and it has never let us or our Customers down, they swear by it.

Cheers
Guy

v8 racing

2,064 posts

250 months

Tuesday 22nd November 2005
quotequote all
guy what is your honest opinion on royal purple if you can give it? i have found it fantastic in the rover engine but trying to get the customers to pay over £100 for an oil change is quite amusing!!

opieoilman

Original Poster:

4,408 posts

235 months

Tuesday 22nd November 2005
quotequote all
Might be best to email me on this one.

sales@opieoils.co.uk

Cheers
Guy

opieoilman

Original Poster:

4,408 posts

235 months

Tuesday 22nd November 2005
quotequote all
Because I don't like divulging chemical analysis information on oils on public forums. Sorry, the information is mine and it's not always clever to divulge it.

You are welcome to email me too.

Cheers
Guy

>> Edited by opieoilman on Tuesday 22 November 22:15

opieoilman

Original Poster:

4,408 posts

235 months

Tuesday 22nd November 2005
quotequote all
If you're that interested, take me up on my offer but I am not able to comment in any depth on a public forum.

Cheers
Guy

opieoilman

Original Poster:

4,408 posts

235 months

Tuesday 22nd November 2005
quotequote all
From a compositional point of view the comments would be valid.

Cheers
Simon

MGBV8

160 posts

255 months

Wednesday 23rd November 2005
quotequote all
In general ester content increases HTHS for the same viscosity at 100c. Compare HTHS of Redline, Motul, Silkolene (in order I believe of ester content).

Information not readily disclosed is the Zinc and moly content both used as anti wear additives. A possible issue with esters is a conflict between these aw additives and the ester base oil for affinity to the surface, perhaps reason why Mobil do not appear to use an ester base oil and Castrol may use a less polar ester.

The ester content may be as little as 1% to obtain some benefits as friction modifiers, however to obtain the full benefit then a content of 20% may be required and may therefore be cost prohibitive for road oils.

Esters appear to have advantages and disadvantages but the total chemistry blend may be more importent than just the base oil used.

Virgin oil analysis for most oils are available although the base oil make up is not identified.

opieoilman

Original Poster:

4,408 posts

235 months

Wednesday 23rd November 2005
quotequote all
Indeed, a content of 20-25% makes a top oil and we have only tested a few that reach this high standard.

It would be prohibitive "cost wise" to blend with any larger % of ester (unless of course you are Richard Branson and own a fleet of jets!)but the use of purely Group V (ester) and Group IV (pao) is the best combination available on the market today.

The fact is I only know for sure of 3 oils on the market today that exceed 20% ester and the balance in pao basestocks. These oils are expensive but they are IMHO the top of the tree for high performance cars.

Cheers
Simon

markh

2,781 posts

274 months

Thursday 24th November 2005
quotequote all
v8 racing said:
guy what is your honest opinion on royal purple if you can give it? i have found it fantastic in the rover engine but trying to get the customers to pay over £100 for an oil change is quite amusing!!



Guy
what is this 'Royal Purple' oil? would this be the best option for my 4.5 Chimaera

Thanks mark

Podie

46,630 posts

274 months

Thursday 24th November 2005
quotequote all
Guy, an interesting read. Thanks for posting it.

opieoilman

Original Poster:

4,408 posts

235 months

Thursday 24th November 2005
quotequote all
markh said:
v8 racing said:
guy what is your honest opinion on royal purple if you can give it? i have found it fantastic in the rover engine but trying to get the customers to pay over £100 for an oil change is quite amusing!!



Guy
what is this 'Royal Purple' oil? would this be the best option for my 4.5 Chimaera

Thanks mark


I dont stock the Royal Purple, as there is better.

Drop me a mail and I will forward on to you some options.

Cheers

Guy.

love machine

7,609 posts

234 months

Thursday 24th November 2005
quotequote all
opieoilman said:
markh said:
v8 racing said:
guy what is your honest opinion on royal purple if you can give it? i have found it fantastic in the rover engine but trying to get the customers to pay over £100 for an oil change is quite amusing!!



Guy
what is this 'Royal Purple' oil? would this be the best option for my 4.5 Chimaera

Thanks mark


I dont stock the Royal Purple, as there is better.

Drop me a mail and I will forward on to you some options.


Cheers

Guy.


Castrol R40?

opieoilman

Original Poster:

4,408 posts

235 months

Thursday 24th November 2005
quotequote all
Castor oils are the best lubricants, but as you know they cannot be made into a multigrade so not suitable for modern engines, they dont last long either.

But........

If you want that good old smell that castor gives then plop a cup full or two into your petrol tank, it works.

Cheers

Guy.

trackcar

6,453 posts

225 months

Friday 25th November 2005
quotequote all
So cutting to the chase ..

what's the best oil on the market?

what's the best value oil on the market?

what should we avoid?

name names or the thread is worthless lol!

steve z

1,245 posts

221 months

Friday 25th November 2005
quotequote all
trackcar said:
So cutting to the chase ..

what's the best oil on the market?

what's the best value oil on the market?

what should we avoid?

name names or the thread is worthless lol!


Guys,

Lets give Guy a break on this. He's come on here to offer some independent advice, that gives us some guidelines on what we should be looking for in our oil. To expect him to start 'naming names' is a bit harsh. He has to deal with the oil suppliers, some of whom probably read this boards, so cut him some slack.

Opie Oils are, in my opinion, the best guys out there for car enthusiasts. They contribute to many discussion forums with good advice, and then back it up with selling quality products at a good price with good service. I don't work or have anything to do with Opie, I just think they offer a great all round service.

opieoilman

Original Poster:

4,408 posts

235 months

Friday 25th November 2005
quotequote all
Quote:

The fact is I only know for sure of 3 oils on the market today that exceed 20% ester and the balance in pao basestocks. These oils are expensive but they are IMHO the top of the tree for high performance cars.

Unquote:

This is as much as I will say but for those that are enthusiasts and run high performance cars, modded and on track, the three concerned are:

Silkolene PRO, Motul 300v and Redline.

That is not to say there are others that we haven't tested but there are around 100 that we have that fall short of the mark, I WILL NOT name names.

Needless to say 3% is a very small number!

Cheers
Simon

trackcar

6,453 posts

225 months

Friday 25th November 2005
quotequote all
steve z said:
trackcar said:
So cutting to the chase ..

what's the best oil on the market?

what's the best value oil on the market?

what should we avoid?

name names or the thread is worthless lol!


Guys,

Lets give Guy a break on this. He's come on here to offer some independent advice, that gives us some guidelines on what we should be looking for in our oil. To expect him to start 'naming names' is a bit harsh. He has to deal with the oil suppliers, some of whom probably read this boards, so cut him some slack.

Opie Oils are, in my opinion, the best guys out there for car enthusiasts. They contribute to many discussion forums with good advice, and then back it up with selling quality products at a good price with good service. I don't work or have anything to do with Opie, I just think they offer a great all round service.


yes alright alright, but I don't know what ester is, or fractions, or what % of this and that an good oil should have .. nor do I care.

BUT i do know how to say Mobil, castrol, motul, valvoline, silkoline, millers etc etc etc down the phone when I place an order .. so some names are far more important to none-oil-techies like me.

similarly to having names of good oils, it's important to know what to stay clear of. What's the point of research if you don't tell anyone your findings?

you see?

makes sense to me anyway.

opieoilman

Original Poster:

4,408 posts

235 months

Friday 25th November 2005
quotequote all
Brand wise if you want the best.

Ester/pao synthetics.
Silkolene
Motul
Redline

Pao syntetics.
Fuchs
Motul
Castrol
Mobil.

But remember all of these manufacturers do these top ones and also do average ones.

Cheers

Guy.