Silly Question...

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Alan420

Original Poster:

5,316 posts

194 months

Friday 11th April 2003
quotequote all
Following on from the excellent results of the 'vague question' thread, I just wondered if any of you modify cars much, Deltaf, I know you do - and pretty special projects from the sound of it!

Can anyone who fits in the above group tell me of a reason I can't squeeze a 1980's Ford RS-turbo engine (or just the head) into the bonnet of my 1991 Escort cabriolet?

This is nothing I'll be doing for a while - I'm at uni for a few moths yet - but when I start earning I'm going to need something pokey to see me through till I can afford a TVR or two... (I wish )

The Cabrio handels really well, but is basically devoid of grunt. I want to fix that...

I know this is a TVR site, but there's a serious amount of engineering knowledge on here that you just don't find amid the bolt-on boys living on fast-ford forums, or (God forbid) M** P**** forums.


P.S, no I'm not a M** P***** type, if I do make this modification there will be no external changes at all. I just want the extra go!

nevpugh308

4,119 posts

205 months

Friday 11th April 2003
quotequote all

I know this is a TVR site


I beg your pardon ?!?!?

Alan420

Original Poster:

5,316 posts

194 months

Friday 11th April 2003
quotequote all

nevpugh308 said:

I know this is a TVR site


I beg your pardon ?!?!?





Sorry, it's all the same to us impoverished students. This 'performance motoring' lark, so confusing...

:hangsheadinshame:

zefarelly

229 posts

193 months

Friday 11th April 2003
quotequote all
If its from the same 'family' of engines (like the kent block from the 70's) then you can interchanged, but a turbo engine would be lower compression I think . . .itd be easier to swap the whole engine ?

get down your local breakers yard . . .with a manual that covers the range of escorts and find the most powerful thing you can!

check the brakes and suspension as well !

Fatboy

7,506 posts

208 months

Friday 11th April 2003
quotequote all
I've seen a TVR V8 in a fiesta (1992 vintage) not sure about the V8, but think it was the AJPV8, not the rover, so anything is possible.
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Alan420

Original Poster:

5,316 posts

194 months

Friday 11th April 2003
quotequote all

zefarelly said: If its from the same 'family' of engines (like the kent block from the 70's) then you can interchanged, but a turbo engine would be lower compression I think . . .itd be easier to swap the whole engine ?

get down your local breakers yard . . .with a manual that covers the range of escorts and find the most powerful thing you can!

check the brakes and suspension as well !


Exactly what I was hoping you'd say.

I was planning to take the whole engine, loom and computer or it gets complicated (dished pistons to sort out compression ratios etc).

My main wonders were;

a) will the engine/gearbox mounts line up?
b) will the bonnet need altering to fit the turbo?

I'm pretty sure 'b' is a no, as RS turbos have pretty standard looking bonnets, but I'm worried about 'a' as the RS turbos' are usually a MK4 wheras my car is the new shape MK5.

I was also planning on seam welding it, just in case I got my hands on a cossie/garrett turbo at any point.

Is seam welding difficult? I'm an inexperienced amateur welder, but a pretty good one, according to the tutor at the local 'tech.

I'm pretty sure the suspension and brakes will cope, it already corners better than any modified car I've been in, and the brakes were beefier than standard Escort jobs, unless I'm much mistaken?

Alan420

Original Poster:

5,316 posts

194 months

Friday 11th April 2003
quotequote all

Fatboy said: I've seen a TVR V8 in a fiesta (1992 vintage) not sure about the V8, but think it was the AJPV8, not the rover, so anything is possible.



You are kidding?!?

It may have had fiesta badges on but that was no fiesta I tell you!

I tried to measure the Escort up for a simple Ford V6 and by my reckoning I'd need to stretch the chasis about 2 metres to fit it!

It was longer than the Escort's bay was wide! I tried every permutation of upside-down/inside out, mounted in the boot or on a roof rack etc but it just wouldn't go.

The only way to do it would have been to mid-mount it and some how interface the V6 with a mid/rear gearbox like in an MR2.

Bearing in mind I wanted to do this at home...

zefarelly

229 posts

193 months

Friday 11th April 2003
quotequote all
seam welding is good . . . . .but your going to ruin paintwork and anything thatll melt when you do it . .

I would have thought stuff would fit ok, Ive got MK1 Cortinas, pretty much anything Ford will fit made up to the mid 70's, or can be easily adapted.

If your going to go nut with power you might want to consider putting it down through the right wheels

there was a guy who built a RWD fiesta in Classic ford a while back . . . . .

Alan420

Original Poster:

5,316 posts

194 months

Friday 11th April 2003
quotequote all
Not going nuts, just standard RS turbo power, plus a bit if I stumble accross an uprated turbo.

I don't want a hugely powerful FWD car as IMHO torque steer completely ruins a good car.

I'm also not going to spend too much money as I'm saving for a decent car (think VX200 turbo) a few years down the line.

seaton

400 posts

190 months

Friday 11th April 2003
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Fatboy said: I've seen a TVR V8 in a fiesta (1992 vintage) not sure about the V8, but think it was the AJPV8, not the rover, so anything is possible.

It seams any thing is possible if you know what you want to do! A Rover V8 Mini maybe www.geocities.com/jharkola/Viku2.html



>> Edited by seaton on Friday 11th April 20:17

>> Edited by seaton on Friday 11th April 20:18

deltaf

6,806 posts

189 months

Friday 11th April 2003
quotequote all
Hi Alan.
There may be some possible problems with the engine and gearbox mounts, in fact id say probably for sure.
If your car has got the cvh already fitted, then itll be not too hard.
You should have seen the trouble i went to just to make a rear gearbox mount for the golf....took me days buts its a one-off, but it wasnt hard.
I reckon youd do this fairly easily, and you may even get off the shelf parts from uncle Henry's parts bin to do it.
Go for it, do something you can call your own work.
A peice of advice regarding the gearbox: Get the RS turbo box if you can, as its already fitted with a limited slip diff.
Itll make driving it so much easier at higer power levels.

Ps, if you get stuck, you can always call on all of us to help you out.

>> Edited by deltaf on Friday 11th April 21:44

Alan420

Original Poster:

5,316 posts

194 months

Saturday 12th April 2003
quotequote all
Yep, the car is currently a 1.6 CVH. It's a good engine, revs well, but the car has a reinforced chasis (to cope with the lack of roof) so it's just not fast.

I don't mind out in the countryside as I'm having too much fun slinging it at corners, using the (plentiful) momentum, but it's a bit of a drag on long straight roads with frequent roundabouts.

Deltaf, I've had an offer on the car so this whole idea may fall by the wayside for a while (like till after my 3 month paid placement when I can afford another) but I'll let you know how it goes if/when it starts.

I guess that's a large part of what this is all about, 'making it my own'. I'm an engineer, I like to tinker - but to think you've improved something instead of just repaired it is a very good feeling.

danhay

6,871 posts

192 months

Saturday 12th April 2003
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Alan, you might want to check and see if an RS Turbo has more cooling e.g. bigger radiator or anything?

Alan420

Original Poster:

5,316 posts

194 months

Saturday 12th April 2003
quotequote all
Yeah, I was hoping to simply find a donor RS, maybe one that's been arse-ended or failed an MOT on rust, or better yet, a police-confiscated one at auction and simply swap all the bits I can.

That way they'll never know they're part of a modified car, and hopefully not breakdown too often as a result!

ultimaandy

1,225 posts

200 months

Saturday 12th April 2003
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Donor car route is the best way.

I have an RS1600i (sitting out the back rusting away) with a turbo technics conversion and I wouldn't recomend it, it was very powerful but when it went wrong I spent ages trying to sort the problem and eventually gave up.

Problems were the fuelling wasn't really up up to the job. Also the gearbox was on its way out due to the extra power (Dyno'd 170bhp).

If you get the complete car, transfer should be fairly easy but a lot of work.

The best idea would be to sell yours and buy a car for the same money already done.

Alan420

Original Poster:

5,316 posts

194 months

Saturday 12th April 2003
quotequote all
Andy,

That kinda misses the point, as I said the whole appeal to me is in doing the conversion myself.

If I had a trailer I'd probably offer you something for that car, or at least the engine.

If the gearbox is knackered/not available I'd probably use a TD gearbox.

It's built to withstand high torque and low revs, a turbo puts out loads of lbft but goes off-boost at 5500rpm. Sounds like a match made in heaven to me... Am I mistaken?

Thing is I have to wait until May at the earliest before I can do anything, as I don't have time, space or money till then.

accident

574 posts

192 months

Sunday 13th April 2003
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ultimaandy said: Donor car route is the best way.

I have an RS1600i (sitting out the back rusting away) with a turbo technics conversion and I wouldn't recomend it, it was very powerful but when it went wrong I spent ages trying to sort the problem and eventually gave up.

Problems were the fuelling wasn't really up up to the job. Also the gearbox was on its way out due to the extra power (Dyno'd 170bhp).

If you get the complete car, transfer should be fairly easy but a lot of work.

The best idea would be to sell yours and buy a car for the same money already done.


you realise that the rs1600 is a rare shell and even in basket case condition will fetch a stupid amount of money from the rs polisher club.
if its a throw away car then put it on the rs site and get some pennies for it(lots more than you think its worth)
i got 1500 for a v5 and an unusable rs2000 shell.
and the guy went away pleased as punch

ultimaandy

1,225 posts

200 months

Sunday 13th April 2003
quotequote all
I don't have time to break it, so it has sat there for the last two years as I can't bring myself to scrap such a rare car, I also love them which doesn't help.

Funnily I had someone else badgering me recently and two weeks ago I whipped the engine out and sold it to him.

Might try the RS boys.

Andy

Alan420

Original Poster:

5,316 posts

194 months

Monday 14th April 2003
quotequote all
All gone.

Theoretically.

I've agreed to sell it to a girl for 1600. She's comming with a bankers draft on Friday.

As a parting present to me it blew its' clutch on the way back from the test drive.

Bastard thing.

Alan420

Original Poster:

5,316 posts

194 months

Wednesday 16th April 2003
quotequote all
Question redundant, it's gone now...