Bike engined Kits Paddle Gear-shifter

[gzus11]

Can anybody shed some light on this topic for me please. I have been told there have been a few kit builders that have made their own paddle shift systems for bike engined kits.

I am very interested in the concept as i am trying to get my head around designing a similar system for the University of Strathclyde Motorsport's formula student car.

Any information whatsoever would be greatly appreciated. I am looking for sketches, plans, photos, contacts, ideas. Anything to get me started would be very helpfull.

cheers.

[Frik]

gzus11 said:

Can anybody shed some light on this topic for me please. I have been told there have been a few kit builders that have made their own paddle shift systems for bike engined kits. I am very interested in the concept as i am trying to get my head around designing a similar system for the University of Strathclyde Motorsport's formula student car. Any information whatsoever would be greatly appreciated. I am looking for sketches, plans, photos, contacts, ideas. Anything to get me started would be very helpfull. cheers.

Oh me too! We're currently running a Translogic system but it doesn't appear to be working that well at present. Incidently, have you tried posting this at FSAE.com too?

[sweatysock]

Dax developed their own system using linkages and a couple of levers behind the wheel. Seems to be well thought of. Try them.

ss

[wedg1e]

You could go really funky and do it electrically, using a couple of solenoids... once you've done that, you could incorporate a kill switch so that it switches the sparks off as you change, so you could do clutchless changes and keep your foot hard down...

[gzus11]

thanks for the info. good starting point.

does anyone have technical drawings or plans of any installations for CBR 600 or similar?

cheers

[pvapour]

check this out www.translogicsystems.com/ there is some good info re the gear shifter with buttons.

Any other info mail me , the guy who owns the company is my best mate.

Nik

[Frik]

pvapour said:

check this out www.translogicsystems.com/ there is some good info re the gear shifter with buttons. Any other info mail me , the guy who owns the company is my best mate. Nik

Oh really?

See my comments above

[GavinPearson]

Not being funny but why bother?

If you look at what Zip use for their 250 cc karts they basically have a series of linkages. It's cheap, reliable and means you can get on with other more important tasks.

I saw the Lawrence Tech Car that did very well and it was very unsophisticated.

IMHO the trick is to get the engine optimised, keep weight down and minimise Polar moment of inertia. You need to be able to alter wheel rates quickly to make the chassis work to the conditions.

If you don't need a diff don't put one in either.

[Frik]

GavinPearson said:

Not being funny but why bother? If you look at what Zip use for their 250 cc karts they basically have a series of linkages. It's cheap, reliable and means you can get on with other more important tasks. I saw the Lawrence Tech Car that did very well and it was very unsophisticated. IMHO the trick is to get the engine optimised, keep weight down and minimise Polar moment of inertia. You need to be able to alter wheel rates quickly to make the chassis work to the conditions. If you don't need a diff don't put one in either.

No, that's a fair point. Once you go for a semi-change, you then have to work out what the fk to do with the clutch. If you have a big lever you can mount the clutch on the back so it is depressed when the gear shift is pushed forwards (on down-changes). Too late for all this for this year's car sadly.

[pvapour]

Frik said:

pvapour said: check this out <a href="http://www.translogicsystems.com/">www.translogicsystems.com/</a> there is some good info re the gear shifter with buttons. Any other info mail me , the guy who owns the company is my best mate. Nik Oh really? See my comments above

LOL - did'nt read that one what problems are you having? i'm sure it can be solved

[Frik]

pvapour said:

Frik said: pvapour said: check this out <a href="http://www.translogicsystems.com/"><a href="http://www.translogicsystems.com/">www.translogicsystems.com/</a></a> there is some good info re the gear shifter with buttons. Any other info mail me , the guy who owns the company is my best mate. Nik Oh really? See my comments above LOL - did'nt read that one what problems are you having? i'm sure it can be solved

I need to speak to my engine guy really but I could give you an outline. Any chance you could mail me cause your email appears to be invalid.

Sorry for the thread hijack gzus11

[GavinPearson]

Frik said:

No, that's a fair point. Once you go for a semi-change, you then have to work out what the fk to do with the clutch. If you have a big lever you can mount the clutch on the back so it is depressed when the gear shift is pushed forwards (on down-changes). Too late for all this for this year's car sadly.

You'll find that on a lot of Karts they have either a foot clutch or a hand clutch. Once you are running you simply lift the throttle, change gear and get back on the power. The gearboxes use dog teeth so using a clutch isn't necessary. In most cases you left foot brake, this means you can also get on the power earlier to get faster lap times.

[Frik]

GavinPearson said:

Frik said: No, that's a fair point. Once you go for a semi-change, you then have to work out what the fk to do with the clutch. If you have a big lever you can mount the clutch on the back so it is depressed when the gear shift is pushed forwards (on down-changes). Too late for all this for this year's car sadly. You'll find that on a lot of Karts they have either a foot clutch or a hand clutch. Once you are running you simply lift the throttle, change gear and get back on the power. The gearboxes use dog teeth so using a clutch isn't necessary. In most cases you left foot brake, this means you can also get on the power earlier to get faster lap times.

This is effectively the set up we have at present. The bike gearbox only requires the clutch on downshifts so we have a hand clutch for this (limited space in footwell). I think the combination of a hand clutch and a push button change will take a bit of getting used to though!

[Pvapour]

Frik said:

pvapour said: Frik said: pvapour said: check this out <a href="http://www.translogicsystems.com/"><a href="http://www.translogicsystems.com/"><a href="http://www.translogicsystems.com/">www.translogicsystems.com/</a></a></a> there is some good info re the gear shifter with buttons. Any other info mail me , the guy who owns the company is my best mate. Nik Oh really? See my comments above LOL - did'nt read that one what problems are you having? i'm sure it can be solved I need to speak to my engine guy really but I could give you an outline. Any chance you could mail me cause your email appears to be invalid. Sorry for the thread hijack gzus11

YHM

[GavinPearson]

Frik said:

This is effectively the set up we have at present. The bike gearbox only requires the clutch on downshifts so we have a hand clutch for this (limited space in footwell). I think the combination of a hand clutch and a push button change will take a bit of getting used to though!

I'd rethink it. You compete to win, and if you have a combination of ergonomic disaster, lack of intuitiveness in control and potential unreliability the result will be a slow time from missed gear changes. If it completes the course. Sorry to be negative.
Having designed a roadgoing 250 Formula E kart as my Final year Project for my Mechanical Engineering degree I am not unfamiliar in what you are trying to achieve. What a career in the motor industry has taught me is to focus your energies on the right things.
Most of the cars are tanks with excessive Polar moments of inertia and poor tyre optimisation. Too much focus is put on aerodynamics against transient engine response.
I couldn't get the regs from the SAE site but if you e-mail me offline I'll offer some opinions on your entry.

[Frik]

GavinPearson said:

Frik said: This is effectively the set up we have at present. The bike gearbox only requires the clutch on downshifts so we have a hand clutch for this (limited space in footwell). I think the combination of a hand clutch and a push button change will take a bit of getting used to though! I'd rethink it. You compete to win, and if you have a combination of ergonomic disaster, lack of intuitiveness in control and potential unreliability the result will be a slow time from missed gear changes. If it completes the course. Sorry to be negative. Having designed a roadgoing 250 Formula E kart as my Final year Project for my Mechanical Engineering degree I am not unfamiliar in what you are trying to achieve. What a career in the motor industry has taught me is to focus your energies on the right things. Most of the cars are tanks with excessive Polar moments of inertia and poor tyre optimisation. Too much focus is put on aerodynamics against transient engine response. I couldn't get the regs from the SAE site but if you e-mail me offline I'll offer some opinions on your entry.

Cheers for the offer, but time is very much of the essense at present. With the competition the first week of July and us not being able to get stuck into building the car because of exams, redesigning things we don't absolutely have to has somewhat lost it's priority.

I'm certainly favouring the manual change for next year's car but until we have this car up and running, we'll never know how effective the current system isn't.

FSAE and it's international counterparts are all about slow, tight circuits and quick responses so the design very much hinges on the qualities you stated above.

At present (or at least when the exams are over) our energies will be very much focused on screwing the thing together. We want to get the thing rolling as none of us has any experience driving anything like this. If anything it should be a bit interesting!

[gzus11]

you are going to love it if you have never driven anything like it before, probably better than anything you ever drive. we just had a very sucessful test day out at knock hill. the acceleration of our car is awesome. any way good luck getting your car together.

[Frik]

gzus11 said:

you are going to love it if you have never driven anything like it before, probably better than anything you ever drive. we just had a very sucessful test day out at knock hill. the acceleration of our car is awesome. any way good luck getting your car together.

Cheers mate, I can't wait!

Good luck with the testing and I'll see you at Brunters in July.