Would you make a track car out of a Granturismo
Discussion
Forget the fact the car is a GT car, it is a reasonably fast and capable car and seems like it will be loads of track fun. Weight saving might be the main focus, rather than increasing power, and with parts for Masers being expensive, some of the parts being taken out could be sold on.
Realistically, from a 1.9t car, would a few hundred kilos be achievable?
Would you?
Would I?
Realistically, from a 1.9t car, would a few hundred kilos be achievable?
Would you?
Would I?
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jeremyc said:
This is what sparked my interest. The GT4 cars look excellent. Mr Spoon said:
jeremyc said:
This is what sparked my interest. The GT4 cars look excellent. without any engine work bar a remap, I know it's not the same but would be cheaper to buy a lesser track car that's someone else has
spent all the money on ,if that engine blows your looking at a mega bill adding no value to the car,
I paid under £20K for my 308 GTB some 26 years ago ,spent £30K plus in old money making into a race/track car
and was in negative equity for years untill the prices on GTB's went up in value which i can't see the Granturismo doing any time soon,
To be honest i had more fun and sometimes quicker in my Caterham's, Cosworth's and unwanted cheap ex/formula 3 cars that nobody
seem to want at the time, Your money and car but i wouldn't go there,
Ok, a ‘proper’ no:
It just doesn’t make any sense to use a GranTurismo as a track car.
Firstly, it’s not fast. Compared to the majority of family saloons etc on the road, yes it’s fast, but relative to performance cars it isn’t.
Even if the car was really stripped back, it’s still going to be quite a lump and as it’s front engined there is a limit to how much weight can be dropped without creating a terrifying fairground ride.
It will still burn through brakes and tyres and it’s a physically large car which isn’t the best at changing direction quickly and rolls through the corners.
It seems such a shame to kill a very nice road car to create a rubbish track car.
It just doesn’t make any sense to use a GranTurismo as a track car.
Firstly, it’s not fast. Compared to the majority of family saloons etc on the road, yes it’s fast, but relative to performance cars it isn’t.
Even if the car was really stripped back, it’s still going to be quite a lump and as it’s front engined there is a limit to how much weight can be dropped without creating a terrifying fairground ride.
It will still burn through brakes and tyres and it’s a physically large car which isn’t the best at changing direction quickly and rolls through the corners.
It seems such a shame to kill a very nice road car to create a rubbish track car.
Lee Jones Jnr said:
It seems such a shame to kill a very nice road car to create a rubbish track car.
This is probably the main reason. The bits you remove are not the bits that will sell easily or have much value, and not only will you get a rubbish track car, but you will get a hugely expensive to run rubbish track car.You could save a few quid and convert an old Jag XFR or for a truly unwieldy old barge that still has a 400(ish) bHp V8 and room to terrfy 3 passengers, a Lexus LS460
Paul
As other have said, no IMHO.
Owned one - lovely / great value road car with genuine presence.
Done loads of track days in light track focused cars to heavier mildly modified road cars. Weight is often the killer as we all know and the GT has plenty of that.
It’s a relatively expensive car to run road wise also. Not unreliable per se, but heavy on brakes and suspension and neither are cheap.
If you have £30-£40k plus to drop on a track day car with some road usability would have thought an exige or similar ticks the box?
Owned one - lovely / great value road car with genuine presence.
Done loads of track days in light track focused cars to heavier mildly modified road cars. Weight is often the killer as we all know and the GT has plenty of that.
It’s a relatively expensive car to run road wise also. Not unreliable per se, but heavy on brakes and suspension and neither are cheap.
If you have £30-£40k plus to drop on a track day car with some road usability would have thought an exige or similar ticks the box?
There are a couple for sale atm
In europe POA
https://www.racecarsdirect.com/Advert/Details/1154...
In the US with price quoted
https://www.racecarsdirect.com/Advert/Details/9855...
In europe POA
https://www.racecarsdirect.com/Advert/Details/1154...
In the US with price quoted
https://www.racecarsdirect.com/Advert/Details/9855...
My experience on track days has seen a wide variety of abilities and performance from all types of cars. For me track days are about fun, and I find the GT far more fun to drive than the Megane, and that was a cageless track car.
I also dont find the weight to be of an issue, the car pivots well, the rear seems to be very stable (road only, so will be completely different on the track) and has adequate power.
I've overtaken some very capable cars on truck with inferior kit, as im sure many track day goers will report their experiences.
Whilst it is front engined, the engine sits behind the front axle, the weight distribution is almost 50/50 and for me the car is stacking up for something great fun.
Regarding the tyres , fuel and brakes, if you buy one of these cars and have to worry about the consumables, then stick to ford fiestas.
I also dont find the weight to be of an issue, the car pivots well, the rear seems to be very stable (road only, so will be completely different on the track) and has adequate power.
I've overtaken some very capable cars on truck with inferior kit, as im sure many track day goers will report their experiences.
Whilst it is front engined, the engine sits behind the front axle, the weight distribution is almost 50/50 and for me the car is stacking up for something great fun.
Regarding the tyres , fuel and brakes, if you buy one of these cars and have to worry about the consumables, then stick to ford fiestas.
If you want to do it, then go for it - better to do something than not do it IMO.
Re costs, I think a set of my slicks in 19 inch costs c 2k and they don’t last all that long - I suspect yours will go even more quickly given the additional weight, so plan a decent sized tyre budget per season.
Re costs, I think a set of my slicks in 19 inch costs c 2k and they don’t last all that long - I suspect yours will go even more quickly given the additional weight, so plan a decent sized tyre budget per season.
Mr Spoon said:
My experience on track days has seen a wide variety of abilities and performance from all types of cars. For me track days are about fun, and I find the GT far more fun to drive than the Megane, and that was a cageless track car.
I also dont find the weight to be of an issue, the car pivots well, the rear seems to be very stable (road only, so will be completely different on the track) and has adequate power.
I've overtaken some very capable cars on truck with inferior kit, as im sure many track day goers will report their experiences.
Whilst it is front engined, the engine sits behind the front axle, the weight distribution is almost 50/50 and for me the car is stacking up for something great fun.
Regarding the tyres , fuel and brakes, if you buy one of these cars and have to worry about the consumables, then stick to ford fiestas.
Well, opinions vary and it wouldn’t do for everyone to be the same.I also dont find the weight to be of an issue, the car pivots well, the rear seems to be very stable (road only, so will be completely different on the track) and has adequate power.
I've overtaken some very capable cars on truck with inferior kit, as im sure many track day goers will report their experiences.
Whilst it is front engined, the engine sits behind the front axle, the weight distribution is almost 50/50 and for me the car is stacking up for something great fun.
Regarding the tyres , fuel and brakes, if you buy one of these cars and have to worry about the consumables, then stick to ford fiestas.
I could be thinking of someone else who posts on here but did you buy at the bottom end of the market? Absolutely nothing wrong with that but it really surprises me that (of it is you I’m thinking of) that you find a 4.2 GT has adequate power to be a track car and also that consumables are inconsequential.
I can’t remember off the top of my head but I think the GT is 55/45 or 45/55 which is all well and good for the car being used on the road. What worthwhile weight saving can be done without spoiling the balance? What weight can be shaved from the front end?
It definitely CAN be done, it just seems odd to bother doing it.
Lee Jones Jnr said:
Mr Spoon said:
My experience on track days has seen a wide variety of abilities and performance from all types of cars. For me track days are about fun, and I find the GT far more fun to drive than the Megane, and that was a cageless track car.
I also dont find the weight to be of an issue, the car pivots well, the rear seems to be very stable (road only, so will be completely different on the track) and has adequate power.
I've overtaken some very capable cars on truck with inferior kit, as im sure many track day goers will report their experiences.
Whilst it is front engined, the engine sits behind the front axle, the weight distribution is almost 50/50 and for me the car is stacking up for something great fun.
Regarding the tyres , fuel and brakes, if you buy one of these cars and have to worry about the consumables, then stick to ford fiestas.
Well, opinions vary and it wouldn’t do for everyone to be the same.I also dont find the weight to be of an issue, the car pivots well, the rear seems to be very stable (road only, so will be completely different on the track) and has adequate power.
I've overtaken some very capable cars on truck with inferior kit, as im sure many track day goers will report their experiences.
Whilst it is front engined, the engine sits behind the front axle, the weight distribution is almost 50/50 and for me the car is stacking up for something great fun.
Regarding the tyres , fuel and brakes, if you buy one of these cars and have to worry about the consumables, then stick to ford fiestas.
I could be thinking of someone else who posts on here but did you buy at the bottom end of the market? Absolutely nothing wrong with that but it really surprises me that (of it is you I’m thinking of) that you find a 4.2 GT has adequate power to be a track car and also that consumables are inconsequential.
I can’t remember off the top of my head but I think the GT is 55/45 or 45/55 which is all well and good for the car being used on the road. What worthwhile weight saving can be done without spoiling the balance? What weight can be shaved from the front end?
It definitely CAN be done, it just seems odd to bother doing it.
I'm surprised one would think the GT is underpowered? Some of the best track days I have done have been in a 100hp car. Albeit with 800kg, but still far off the 200hp/tonne the GT has. A civic type R and many other cars like this don't make the 200hp/tonne mark, and whilst there are super supercars making much more, I think thats plenty.
Its a very good point about the balance. Absolutely no idea what making it lighter, even if its realistically possibly would do. Plastic weighs nothing so remove those parts wouldn't do much. In fact, there are lots of things that wouldnt really do much, I could take the car to the track as it is, pay a decent instructor and be much faster than if I were to strip it out, change the suspension etc.
Mr Spoon said:
I could take the car to the track as it is
If you are determined to use a Gran Turismo on a track I would definitely leave it well alone.Once the tyres and brake pads have been replaced you are still left with a lovely looking, awesome sounding and very enjoyable road car.
regarding the weight point, i would think that on a 1.9t car a few hundred kg should easily be achievable. I do not have the list anymore that I put together for the 550, but from memory the following parts were on it (in no particular order):
Carbon bucketseats [in your case also get rid of rear seats)
Lightweight exhaust system, ideally titanium throughout
Lightweight rims
Lightweight front and rear bumpers (either off the shelf, or more likely get them manufactured in carbon)
Carbon bonnet and bootlid plus possibly front wings [would leave the doors alone if not integrating a full cage]
Lexan windows in the rear
Lightweight battery
Remove sound deadening in the passenger compartment
Carbon brakes [I thought those were unlikely to be added, but they would have helped a little re unsprung weight]
I wanted to keep the radio, heating and aircon as I did not want an out and out track car, more like a light 550.
I had weight estimates for most of the above items and I think it added up to c. 200 kg from memory, which would have been quite nice on a 550
Carbon bucketseats [in your case also get rid of rear seats)
Lightweight exhaust system, ideally titanium throughout
Lightweight rims
Lightweight front and rear bumpers (either off the shelf, or more likely get them manufactured in carbon)
Carbon bonnet and bootlid plus possibly front wings [would leave the doors alone if not integrating a full cage]
Lexan windows in the rear
Lightweight battery
Remove sound deadening in the passenger compartment
Carbon brakes [I thought those were unlikely to be added, but they would have helped a little re unsprung weight]
I wanted to keep the radio, heating and aircon as I did not want an out and out track car, more like a light 550.
I had weight estimates for most of the above items and I think it added up to c. 200 kg from memory, which would have been quite nice on a 550
Lots of fun can be had when dropping weight in a heavier GT.
Different car but is still front mid-engine V8 with 50/50 weight distribution
https://youtu.be/wj5ohIZyohw
Different car but is still front mid-engine V8 with 50/50 weight distribution
https://youtu.be/wj5ohIZyohw
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