Trailer wheel fell off - who's to blame?
Discussion
Asking on behalf of a mate...my wheels haven't fallen off!!
Yesterday on the way home from a drifting event, my friend's trailer wheel fell off, bounced down the road and was brought to a sudden halt by another motorist. The wheel bearing failed. Castle nut and split pin left on the hub along with the inner race and bearing parts, brake drum and wheel nuts still on the wheel and the brake internals scattered and destroyed. Photo evidence of this was taken.
All four trailer wheel bearings were replaced at once, two months ago, and the trailer has only had two outings since. Regardless of who fitted bearings (I think my mate did them himself - they aren't exactly a specialist job), who should take the blame. Insurance details have been exchanged, but I think blame (and therefore the damaged motorist's costs plus repairs) should fall to the bearing supplier or manufacturer. Any advice on how to proceed? I have advised him to use tact and diplomacy, but should he contact his insurers first thing in the morning, or wait out for the suppliers?
Yesterday on the way home from a drifting event, my friend's trailer wheel fell off, bounced down the road and was brought to a sudden halt by another motorist. The wheel bearing failed. Castle nut and split pin left on the hub along with the inner race and bearing parts, brake drum and wheel nuts still on the wheel and the brake internals scattered and destroyed. Photo evidence of this was taken.
All four trailer wheel bearings were replaced at once, two months ago, and the trailer has only had two outings since. Regardless of who fitted bearings (I think my mate did them himself - they aren't exactly a specialist job), who should take the blame. Insurance details have been exchanged, but I think blame (and therefore the damaged motorist's costs plus repairs) should fall to the bearing supplier or manufacturer. Any advice on how to proceed? I have advised him to use tact and diplomacy, but should he contact his insurers first thing in the morning, or wait out for the suppliers?
Emanresu said:
Long story short, it's your mates fault. It's his responsibility to make sure his trailer is maintained.
If a wheel came off my car and killed a child who's fault is it?
Same same
If the wheel came off because someone had supplied a deficient part then it would be there fault. Proving the part was not up to scratch could be tough. If a wheel came off my car and killed a child who's fault is it?
Same same
photosnob said:
If the wheel came off because someone had supplied a deficient part then it would be there fault. Proving the part was not up to scratch could be tough.
And their first question to avoid blame will be 'Who fitted the bearings?'.Unless your friend is a certified mechanic they will question his competence and only a report from a suitably qualified lab/engineer somewhere stating that the bearing was structurally defective will give him a chance.
The reality is that his insurance will likely end up paying because life isn't like CSI.
photosnob said:
If the wheel came off because someone had supplied a deficient part then it would be there fault. Proving the part was not up to scratch could be tough.
Exactly this. The nut staying on the hub is a good start. However, does he have proof that those two journeys were the only journeys made, and he didn't smash the wheel against something? While it does sound like the manufacturer's fault, proving that is another question.Emanresu said:
Long story short, it's your mates fault. It's his responsibility to make sure his trailer is maintained.
If a wheel came off my car and killed a child who's fault is it?
If the owner of the trailer wasn't negligent, then it would be no one's fault. If he was negligent, then it would be his fault. In order to hold anyone at fault for anything, you have to show negligence. Property damage / injury / death. No difference.If a wheel came off my car and killed a child who's fault is it?
TwigtheWonderkid said:
If the owner of the trailer wasn't negligent, then it would be no one's fault. If he was negligent, then it would be his fault. In order to hold anyone at fault for anything, you have to show negligence. Property damage / injury / death. No difference.
You're ignoring the question which was whether the manufacturer of the part that failed was potentially negligent. Your answer implies the manufacturer could never be at fault. It's not really a question of fault, more one of responsibility.
As the owner (or even user) of the trailer it's your mate's responsibility to ensure it's in working order, and his responsibility if a wheel comes off. Thus if someone is injured or receives damage as a result it's on his insurance... he did get trailer insurance didn't he?
As the owner (or even user) of the trailer it's your mate's responsibility to ensure it's in working order, and his responsibility if a wheel comes off. Thus if someone is injured or receives damage as a result it's on his insurance... he did get trailer insurance didn't he?
Road traffic law is pretty clear cut in this regard, it's your mates fault and his insurance will pay out the 3rd party and he will have an at fault claim.
However he may be able to claim back costs from the parts manufacturer as a separate case, chances are he will get a refund for the failed part and not much else unless he really pushes them.
It does suck, but that's life.
However he may be able to claim back costs from the parts manufacturer as a separate case, chances are he will get a refund for the failed part and not much else unless he really pushes them.
It does suck, but that's life.
This reminds me of an incident we had at work a while back. A chap had come in and asked if we could fit a new wheel bearing to his car, he already had the part and just wanted it fitted. We had space on the ramp and decided to take the job on, the guy was desperate to leave for Bristol (from Cornwall) later that day so we thought it would be a win win situation, we had an unexpected labour only job and he had his car mobile for his road trip. The job went fine, the guy who fitted the bearing was a highly competent mechanic and MOT tester.
The next day the car came back to us on the back of a tow truck, the guy got to Bristol when the bearing we fitted had failed quite catastrophically! I now had a rather angry polish guy in my reception waving his receipt round claiming we almost killed him and his family!
Even though I knew we weren't at fault I ended up covering the guys recovery and repair costs as I didn't want the hassle of him carrying out his threats of slating us all over social media etc.
About a fortnight after this happened I read an article in one of the trade/supplier magazines we get given about dodgy substandard wheel bearings being sold that were not up to scratch.
I know this doesn't help your friends situation but thought it was worth sharing
The next day the car came back to us on the back of a tow truck, the guy got to Bristol when the bearing we fitted had failed quite catastrophically! I now had a rather angry polish guy in my reception waving his receipt round claiming we almost killed him and his family!
Even though I knew we weren't at fault I ended up covering the guys recovery and repair costs as I didn't want the hassle of him carrying out his threats of slating us all over social media etc.
About a fortnight after this happened I read an article in one of the trade/supplier magazines we get given about dodgy substandard wheel bearings being sold that were not up to scratch.
I know this doesn't help your friends situation but thought it was worth sharing
Jimmytno1 said:
About a fortnight after this happened I read an article in one of the trade/supplier magazines we get given about dodgy substandard wheel bearings being sold that were not up to scratch.
When i read the opening post, this was my first thought. In reality for catastrophic bearing failure in what is described as being used within ordinary design parameters and with the bearings being self fitted they were probably made from chinese monkey metal and sold as good stuff (maybe).
I reality think the OPs mate is really going to have just go through his insurance.
Dip
caelite said:
Road traffic law is pretty clear cut in this regard, it's your mates fault and his insurance will pay out the 3rd party and he will have an at fault claim.
Please point me in the direction of this law, that apparently overrides law of tort and doesn't need negligence to be shown.Heres Johnny said:
TwigtheWonderkid said:
If the owner of the trailer wasn't negligent, then it would be no one's fault. If he was negligent, then it would be his fault. In order to hold anyone at fault for anything, you have to show negligence. Property damage / injury / death. No difference.
You're ignoring the question which was whether the manufacturer of the part that failed was potentially negligent. Your answer implies the manufacturer could never be at fault. Taper roller bearings? I have these on my own trailer & have had them on various cars over the years incl my RRC.
If so then you do need to know what you're doing. These MUST be correctly adjusted as if they are nipped up too tight they will very rapidly overheat & self destruct. I've always done them so if I grip the wheel at 12 & 6 & rock it I can JUST feel play. Never had one fail in service or at MoT.
I did on one occasion with the Scimitar I had in the early 80s do a front one too tight. Failed within 100 miles fortunately at low speed & vehicle had to be recovered. Bearing in bits & the inner race had welded itself to the stub axle shaft.
Ball bearings?
Saw a twin axle caravan where the handbrake hadn't been properly released allowing the brakes to bind. Owner commented that he thought it seemed a bit harder to tow. The heat generated by the friction against the drums had baked the grease in the bearings & all 4 sets had disintegrated. Recovered by low loader. Whilst none had fallen off the amount of wobble at the wheels was impressive!
Cable or rod operated?
Rods not usually a problem providing all properly greased & adjusted.
Inner cables can seize or stick inside the outers & may stick on so whilst the brake lever is down the brakes may not have released.
My own trailer is a 4 wheel braked boat trailer. Had to replace one of the cables within 12 months as corrosion was causing it to stick. Replaced rearmost two cables - the ones that go swimming - with stainless steel & now remove all cables as part of annual service & oil them as I used to do with motorcycle cables. No further issues.
Don't leave trailers - or caravans - with the handbrake applied for long periods. The brake shoes can rust & stick themselves to the drums. Not unusual at trailer/caravan storage sites. Can be the devil's own job getting them unstuck & as they're stuck you can't get the drum off......
If so then you do need to know what you're doing. These MUST be correctly adjusted as if they are nipped up too tight they will very rapidly overheat & self destruct. I've always done them so if I grip the wheel at 12 & 6 & rock it I can JUST feel play. Never had one fail in service or at MoT.
I did on one occasion with the Scimitar I had in the early 80s do a front one too tight. Failed within 100 miles fortunately at low speed & vehicle had to be recovered. Bearing in bits & the inner race had welded itself to the stub axle shaft.
Ball bearings?
Saw a twin axle caravan where the handbrake hadn't been properly released allowing the brakes to bind. Owner commented that he thought it seemed a bit harder to tow. The heat generated by the friction against the drums had baked the grease in the bearings & all 4 sets had disintegrated. Recovered by low loader. Whilst none had fallen off the amount of wobble at the wheels was impressive!
Cable or rod operated?
Rods not usually a problem providing all properly greased & adjusted.
Inner cables can seize or stick inside the outers & may stick on so whilst the brake lever is down the brakes may not have released.
My own trailer is a 4 wheel braked boat trailer. Had to replace one of the cables within 12 months as corrosion was causing it to stick. Replaced rearmost two cables - the ones that go swimming - with stainless steel & now remove all cables as part of annual service & oil them as I used to do with motorcycle cables. No further issues.
Don't leave trailers - or caravans - with the handbrake applied for long periods. The brake shoes can rust & stick themselves to the drums. Not unusual at trailer/caravan storage sites. Can be the devil's own job getting them unstuck & as they're stuck you can't get the drum off......
Edited by paintman on Monday 22 May 08:11
TwigtheWonderkid said:
caelite said:
Road traffic law is pretty clear cut in this regard, it's your mates fault and his insurance will pay out the 3rd party and he will have an at fault claim.
Please point me in the direction of this law, that apparently overrides law of tort and doesn't need negligence to be shown.So if a mechanical failure occurs in your vehicle causing damage to another car there claim is with the driver of the failing vehicle. However if on investigation it is found that the mechanical failure was caused by a manufacturing defect a separate law suit can be opened seeking damaged from the manufacturer.
Commonly cited situations where this applies are in lorry tyre blowouts where tyre debris often damages other vehicles in the vicinity.
Although in the case of commercial vehicles you need to produce a literal mountain of maintenance paperwork to prove that no negligence in maintenance has occurred. I would genuinely be surprised if any 3.5ton trailer rolling down the road has actually be serviced frequently or correctly throughout its entire operating life.
caelite said:
Commonly cited situations where this applies are in lorry tyre blowouts where tyre debris often damages other vehicles in the vicinity.
But drivers aren't responsible for damage done by tyre debris??? So you're arguing against your own stance. Do you think if your vehicle throws up a stone that smashes the windscreen of the vehicle behind, you are responsible for that too. Sorry, but it's tripe. No negligence, no claim. End of story.
caelite said:
Don't have a legal background so can't cite the exact law involved, however it is outlined in your driver CPC for C1/C licences, the condition and contents of your vehicle and trailer is wholly the responsibility of the driver, we differ from the rest of Europe in this regard where on the continent responsiblity for the trailer and trailer contents tend to lie with the trailer owner rather than the driver, although that would be irrelevant in this case.
So if a mechanical failure occurs in your vehicle causing damage to another car there claim is with the driver of the failing vehicle. However if on investigation it is found that the mechanical failure was caused by a manufacturing defect a separate law suit can be opened seeking damaged from the manufacturer.
Commonly cited situations where this applies are in lorry tyre blowouts where tyre debris often damages other vehicles in the vicinity.
Although in the case of commercial vehicles you need to produce a literal mountain of maintenance paperwork to prove that no negligence in maintenance has occurred. I would genuinely be surprised if any 3.5ton trailer rolling down the road has actually be serviced frequently or correctly throughout its entire operating life.
Driver was cleared, owner and mechanic were guiltySo if a mechanical failure occurs in your vehicle causing damage to another car there claim is with the driver of the failing vehicle. However if on investigation it is found that the mechanical failure was caused by a manufacturing defect a separate law suit can be opened seeking damaged from the manufacturer.
Commonly cited situations where this applies are in lorry tyre blowouts where tyre debris often damages other vehicles in the vicinity.
Although in the case of commercial vehicles you need to produce a literal mountain of maintenance paperwork to prove that no negligence in maintenance has occurred. I would genuinely be surprised if any 3.5ton trailer rolling down the road has actually be serviced frequently or correctly throughout its entire operating life.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/jan/27/ba...
TwigtheWonderkid said:
caelite said:
Commonly cited situations where this applies are in lorry tyre blowouts where tyre debris often damages other vehicles in the vicinity.
But drivers aren't responsible for damage done by tyre debris??? So you're arguing against your own stance. Do you think if your vehicle throws up a stone that smashes the windscreen of the vehicle behind, you are responsible for that too. Sorry, but it's tripe. No negligence, no claim. End of story.
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