AP brake pad replacement

[mfp4073]

My Monaro was fitted with APs a couple of months ago, and I'm already a bit fed up with the huge amount of dust they make.
Now, if the brake performance when cold was anything to write home about id be happy enough and leave things as they are, however as I'm not impressed with either I'm now looking for a different brake pad compound.
I'm looking for a pad that has, good initial grab when cold. Low noise and low dust levels if possible.
The car has Ferodo DS 2500's at the moment, so I've been considering Pedders, sports Ryder's, or Carbon Lorrain RS5+
Has anyone has any experience of these or possibly any other make?

John

Edited by mfp4073 on Thursday 27th September 15:48

Edited by mfp4073 on Thursday 27th September 15:53

Edited by mfp4073 on Thursday 27th September 19:00

[vxkev]

what are the caliper part numbers, EBC make pads for many AP calipers and yellow stuff are good, you can check here. https://ebcbrakes.com/articles/a-p-racing/

[99PBATR]

I've got yellow stuff pads on mine and I am very unimpressed. To be fair I'm not sure if I have an issue with my brakes as I am running AP's all round too and so far I think they are poor, which I am hoping means I have an issue with them as they must be better than mine work

[Lincsls1]

This is quite off putting really. Was looking to fit AP's to my Ro.
How can they not be noticeably better than the stock even VXR brakes? They are much bigger for a start giving a leverage advantage and that's before considering the larger contact areas.
What are the basic pads supplied with the AP kit? Are DS2500 an optional upgrade? Thought they were supposed to be really good.

[mfp4073]

Lincsls1 said:

This is quite off putting really. Was looking to fit AP's to my Ro.
How can they not be noticeably better than the stock even VXR brakes? They are much bigger for a start giving a leverage advantage and that's before considering the larger contact areas.
What are the basic pads supplied with the AP kit? Are DS2500 an optional upgrade? Thought they were supposed to be really good.

The brakes are good from high speeds when warm, but hot or cold low speed braking feel and performance are no different from my old stock set up. Driving around town the brakes feel dead, I was expecting great things from AP's, hopefully a pad change will sort things out.

Edited by mfp4073 on Thursday 27th September 19:01

[stevieturbo]

I've never been impressed with the DS2500's on any car. Nor even AP's own pads.

Give Paul a shout to try the Carbon Lorraine's, RC5 would be a decent choice as lets face it, unless you're doing serious track use, the brakes will never be getting that hot.

Or the old faithful Mintex 1144 are still a good pad despite being many years old.

[mfp4073]

stevieturbo said:

I've never been impressed with the DS2500's on any car. Nor even AP's own pads.

Give Paul a shout to try the Carbon Lorraine's, RC5 would be a decent choice as lets face it, unless you're doing serious track use, the brakes will never be getting that hot.

Or the old faithful Mintex 1144 are still a good pad despite being many years old.

Stevieturbo,

Thanks for that, I'll check out the Mintex job's, but I like the sound of the RC5 pads.
I wonder why AP supply the Ferodo pads if there are better ones out there? and why do Monaro owners rate them so highly?

John

[stevieturbo]

I think for the most part...those who rate them highly have maybe not tried a wide range of pads.
Or in some applications they do work well...again, relative to what other stuff they've tried.

Or more strange, why AP supply a kit, that doesnt use their own pads.

Lots of variables really.

[JAMESHSV1]

The Ap kit for the monaros are a good price new and which I find work very well.Do you have braided lines fitted

[mfp4073]

JAMESHSV1 said:

The Ap kit for the monaros are a good price new and which I find work very well.Do you have braided lines fitted

JAMESHSV,

Yes, I already had the braided lines fitted prior to fitting the AP's.
I have been driving my brothers 2016 Mustang GT which has 6 pot Brembo's fitted. When you touch that brake pedal you certainly know you have uprated brakes. I was expecting the AP's to be the similar.

John

[stevieturbo]

mfp4073 said:

JAMESHSV,

Yes, I already had the braided lines fitted prior to fitting the AP's.
I have been driving my brothers 2016 Mustang GT which has 6 pot Brembo's fitted. When you touch that brake pedal you certainly know you have uprated brakes. I was expecting the AP's to be the similar.

John

That will largely be down to pad material. Race pads just arent a great choice for the road and this is one reason why.

That said, I went from RC6's to RC8's at the front and the cold bite actually improved which was very surprising, but as a more aggressive pad they will wear and eat the discs quicker, and waste produced can be harder to clean up. So RC5's or a similar fast road type pad would be a better choice for a daily.

[mfp4073]

stevieturbo said:

That will largely be down to pad material. Race pads just arent a great choice for the road and this is one reason why.

That said, I went from RC6's to RC8's at the front and the cold bite actually improved which was very surprising, but as a more aggressive pad they will wear and eat the discs quicker, and waste produced can be harder to clean up. So RC5's or a similar fast road type pad would be a better choice for a daily.

That's quite interesting about the Mustang brake pad, but it makes sense to have a user friendly pad in a new car. I will ask ford what pad they actually use, mind you that might be in the too hard box for a quick answer. I was considering the Pedders sports Ryder as a cheaper option, as it may be more like the Mustang pad, a good initial bite when cold, but good enough for when things heat up!!!!

[mfp4073]

Lincsls1 said:

This is quite off putting really. Was looking to fit AP's to my Ro.
How can they not be noticeably better than the stock even VXR brakes? They are much bigger for a start giving a leverage advantage and that's before considering the larger contact areas.
What are the basic pads supplied with the AP kit? Are DS2500 an optional upgrade? Thought they were supposed to be really good.

Lincsls 1,

Please don't be put off buying a set of AP's just because of my opinion. Don't forget there are plenty of people who are more than happy with them.
I have found when fully warmed up they will haul you down from high speed without issue, probably all day long.
I have braked heavily from about 70-80 mph down to zero, and I doubt you could really stop much quicker as the tyres have only so much grip to offer, and I'm on Michelin pilots!.
My issue is really with the lack initial bite especially around town. But you have to remember that's probably the trade off you have when you have a brake pad that can take some high temperature abuse.
Hopefully a pad change will sort the job out, but that will have to wait until next year as I've blown my Monaro budget for this year.

Regards John

[mfp4073]

I have fitted front and rear Pedders ceramic brake pads to my AP's, and have just completed the bedding in procedure.
Straight away the lack of black brake dust is quite amazing compared to the DS2500's compound.
As for the braking itself there is a slight improvement in braking feel but it's not massive. I'll put a few more miles on the car before I try any high speed braking.
Overal a slight improvement and I would recommend ceramic pads especially if you like cleaner wheels.
Again I drove my brothers Mustang ( yesterday ) and when I came to my first stop the instant grab from the brakes is totally different to the Monaro. It must have a lot of servo assistance in comparison.
Anyway another job done.

[Lincsls1]

^^^Thanks for the update on this.
Interesting to know, I did enquire about these pads and having them fitted with the AP kit straight from new, but the kit comes complete with the DS2500's, the supplier wouldn't split the kit and I couldn't justify the extra cost of the Pedders pads on top of the £2.5k already paid out! Maybe I could have sold the standard pads easily enough, I'll probably regret not doing this soon enough!

[mfp4073]

Lincsls1 said:

^^^Thanks for the update on this.
Interesting to know, I did enquire about these pads and having them fitted with the AP kit straight from new, but the kit comes complete with the DS2500's, the supplier wouldn't split the kit and I couldn't justify the extra cost of the Pedders pads on top of the £2.5k already paid out! Maybe I could have sold the standard pads easily enough, I'll probably regret not doing this soon enough!

Yep I feel your pain, it's a real kick in the pods having to replace new brake pads. Mine only had 1500 miles on them.
Anyway I'll report back with any updates.

Edited by mfp4073 on Wednesday 3rd July 20:04

[99PBATR]

I have to say that I changed my pads from the yellowstuff (which were utter cak on my AP set up) to DS2500's and I find them ok. They don't dust too badly and bite ok. Yes there are likely to be better pads but I am not underwhelmed by them having had them on my last car, where they were a good upgrade. That said, it's each to their own.

[Oilchange]

If you can get Ferodo DSUno or DS1.11 in the right sizes you might find an improvement.
I use them for racing, very good pads.

[mfp4073]

I decided to do some braking tests today, I used the AP bedding in procedure. When the brakes are cool or have been warmed up everything is fine. However, once the brakes become hot I can hear a rotational grinding noise from the front offside wheel?
When the brakes cool off again the noise goes away.
I've had the wheel off and everything looks OK. This only started when I put in new brake pads.
I'm thinking maybe the central alloy bell expands through high temps, it then just catches the brake pad backing plate causing the noise?
Has anyone on hear had a similar issue?

Edited by mfp4073 on Saturday 6th July 18:59

[hamish99]

Hi. Yes I have this issue for years, notwithstanding replacing all discs and pads. I think it is caused by the caliper piston not fully returning, causing slight contact with the disc and the noise, thereby creating heat and which in turn over time tends to contribute towards disc warp.

I am not sure if the AP caliper pistons have dust seals in them (full racing brakes don’t, and I have never been sure whether these were adapted for road use by AP.). If so, that might be an explanation for the root cause. The best answer would be to get the brakes rebuilt (which is what I will be doing next time it goes into to Dave & team @ Walkinshaw).