Sagaris buying advice

Sagaris buying advice

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Discussion

markgsmith

Original Poster:

23 posts

66 months

Tuesday 16th October 2018
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I’m looking to buy a Sagaris and would like to understand people’s thoughts and opinions on what seems to be driving a significantly large spread of prices for those cars that are being currently advertised £60-80k. As there’s so few of these cars in existence, I assume that many are known individually so there may be some additional knowledge on this forum that I’m missing.

I'm not fortunate enough to be in a position to finally buy one and I want this to drive and not just keep in a garage. Therefore, being perfect isn’t necessarily that high on my agenda.

What I’m trying to understand is that, other than mileage, the condition of the paint and the colours of the body and interior, what else am I missing? Is this just a simple case that some are being advertised with speculatively high prices and debt is cheap at the moment so dealers can wait around for the right buyers?

What seems to be available at the moment are:

Parkway – Mystic Black Pearl, 52k miles, £60k – seems to have been around for at least 6 months
Amore – GTS Blue, 39k miles, £67k
Private Seller – Lotus Aztec Gold – Powers 4.3l conversion, 55k miles, £70k
TrackVRoad – Iced Titanium, 30k miles, £73k
Str8six – Silver, 29k miles, £75k – larger exhaust
Str8six – Deep Purple, 39k miles, £75k
Mole Valley – Red Glow Pearl, 13k miles, £75k
Parkway – Red Glow Pearl, 13k miles, £80k

If I take the bottom to be the Mystic Black car at £60k, I assume this is the lowest because it’s relatively high mileage and black inside and out which to me at least is pretty unappealing but that can be addressed over time. At the top end there’s a couple of very low mileage cars between £75k and £80k.
Is there something else other than mileage that may cause people an issue with the black car. It’s significantly cheaper (if you can call it that) and has been around for a good while now.

I like the GTS blue car which has now been reduced in price but found it advertised on a hire car website therefore I assume it’s been ragged around a bit. However, it's £8k less than the Str8six purple car with the same millage.

Both Str8six cars are top notch as you’d expect but the silver car is considerably better on paper with the upgrades, the better seats, lower mileage etc for the same price so I assume the purple car is a similar price as the exterior and interior are seem as being more desirable (which I do really like). And then again, for the same price, there is a 12k mileage car available so it this just the Str8six premium of buying a car as perfect as they can make it?
All thoughts and opinions welcome. I’m not necessarily expecting someone to make my mind up for me, just help me understand the differences between each of these cars and what else I should be thinking about regarding history and spec etc.

alex_gray255

6,313 posts

204 months

Tuesday 16th October 2018
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There are plenty of past threads on here and in the FAQ that suggest things to look out for. To summarise, the key points are:-

  • Good mileage, is better than no or little mileage
  • Always try and get one with an engine rebuild - either Powers or Str8Six. Try to avoid Factory rebuilds
  • Chassis - always good to check. May not be an issue with Sags, but don't bet on it. I've seen one or two which have had dodgy chassis
  • 4.3 or 4.5 better than a 4.0 - more desirable - drives like a different car
  • Upgraded ECU always a bonus
  • Check for damage in the history. A few Sags (including well known ones) have been damaged in the past and the repairs are not that great in a few cases as the owners have later discovered
  • Check what mods have been done. Personally, all this originality c**p is just that - c**p. Mods are done for a good reason, especially on TVRs - where most of the finishing off had to be done by the customer and/or dealer. And no, I'm not being cynical here.
Also, a personal thought, be careful of some of the warrantees provided by some dealers. There have been... issues with some of them in the past with some people.

Edited by alex_gray255 on Tuesday 16th October 16:14

monty quick

230 posts

235 months

Tuesday 16th October 2018
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I can only offer what might be considered 'obvious' advice. The market for the Sagaris is incredibly strong and will hopefully stay so. Therefore, whatever price you 'invest' at will have an equal return. The fact that you want a car to drive puts you in a strong position - you want reliability and you are not going to worry about adding a few miles. Therefore, it makes sense to avoid a 'collectors car' where extra miles will damage residuals.
The other thing to remember is that repairs and upgrades are reasonably 'affordable' with a car that is worth so much money. If you take a £60k car that is limited because of the trim you could do a full re-trim for £5k to £6k and the car would probably be then be worth £65k to £70k. Equally, if the car you select is valued at £60k because of high mileage you could drive it until something breaks then rebuild at around £6k or up-grade at anything from £10k to £15k and probably end up with a car that is worth £70k. It is almost fair to say that at the moment you can't lose (much) with a Sagaris.

markgsmith

Original Poster:

23 posts

66 months

Tuesday 16th October 2018
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Thanks both

pacato

40 posts

128 months

Tuesday 16th October 2018
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A Sagaris is an unbelievable well driving car and it looks like mars attaks. I drive mine as much as I can and it always maks me smile and it never let me down. You just do not need a collectors car if you want to drive it, so higher mileage is no problem at all. No joke: You will enjoy to sit in the car even when you do not drive it: I think it is imported that you like the mods and the colours. Very helpful to look and to test the car with someone who knows late tvr models.
Crashed tvrs can be repaird perfektly or unbelievable bad. Watch out.

markgsmith

Original Poster:

23 posts

66 months

Wednesday 17th October 2018
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Thank you all

PGNSagaris

2,926 posts

165 months

Thursday 18th October 2018
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In your shoes I’d go straight to Str8six.

It will be hassle free and the best prepped cars and warranty available.

Special cars are Sags.

phoenixz

439 posts

165 months

Thursday 18th October 2018
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My 2 cents -

Mileage in general is not as much of a factor on the price as it is on most cars. Mileage since the engine has been rebuilt is!
As has been said already, if you are looking to use it then a recent engine rebuild will be best (str8six or powers).
You may find that certain cheaper, higher mileage options will be needing a rebuild soon if not already. Once rebuilt they are good for many more miles (100k+ if treated correctly). Including labour, i would set aside £10-15k for a very good rebuild with upgrades, even a like for like rebuild will end up being about £10k all in. Expect about 3-6 months without the car aswell.
i.e. Those cheaper options are usually cheap for a reason


You will tend to find that the higher the mileage, the more has been fixed / upgraded. There is almost always a better option to replacing like for like.
The more it has been driven, the more will have gone wrong and the more parts will have been replaced and they are usually better quality or more reliable. "Modifications" are not usually extreme or aesthetic (why would you need to) and tend to be functional instead. I am yet to meet an anorak wearing TVR fanatic that complains about originality, so i wouldn't worry about mods affecting price.
With that being said, the 4.3 & 4.5 upgrades are not worth the money. i have driven all three variants in anger and have seen them on track driven by similar level drivers and i can categorically say that it is not worth the money. I'm on the fence about the LS engined options


You may notice that colour tends to dictate the price a fair bit with the flip paints being the most desirable (also most expensive to respray), but with so few cars built changes in colour from factory are generally irrelevant to the price.



My suggest to you, as a buyer looking to drive it often, would be this:
- High mileage with a recent engine rebuild is your best option
- Don't be afraid of planning retrims or resprays somewhere down the road
- Don't be afraid of modifications
- 4.0, 4.3 or 4.5 are not really worth the money but great if already done (don't pay a premium for an upgraded one)
- Do not expect Porsche levels of reliability, but 99% of problems will be small niggles
- Make sure to use recognised TVR mechanics for servicing. Their experience, knowledge and connections cannot be matched

markgsmith

Original Poster:

23 posts

66 months

Thursday 18th October 2018
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Thank you once again, very helpful. Whilst some of these answers may seem obvious to some, they are helping me to answer my own questions in this search.

I agree on colour and re-trims, I have some ideas in mind for what I want but I'm full open to the idea of sorting that out at a later date. I've wanted one for a very long time and the plan will be to keep it for at least as long (and hopefully until the kids can genuinely appreciate a real car) so can 'work' with the car over time to make it as much my own as possible.

Your thoughts are interesting on the 4.3 and 4.5 conversions. I've driven a standard 4.0 (briefly) but not the other variants. I was never really sold on increasing capacity for more torque but lower revs. The LS option is attractive but a de-stroked version which then goes in to mega money. That's an option for the distant future.

I'm more than comfortable with the concept of not being the same standard as my Merc or Porsche for build quality but that's what makes them so enjoyably, as you fix these niggles you become to understand and love your car more.

Thanks again

anonymous-user

53 months

Thursday 18th October 2018
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There are highly priced good cars that will sell well, often without coming to market, and there are average or very average cars that are priced high. Most are the latter.

My opinion..

Buy on condition, and remember, the majority of cars that have had engine rebuilds had them as they were required. The S6 engine in the Sagaris is not one of the chocolate variety and unless mileage at rebuild was high, either the owner was in need of an upgrade, unlucky, or there has been abuse or lack of quality service.

If I were in the market I would be looking for car that had one owner, with lower than average mileage (say 25-30K) and very strong service history with a long serving specialist with a good reputation. If the engine was rebuilt since leaving the factory, I would need to understand why.


Moycie

536 posts

196 months

Thursday 18th October 2018
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Lots of good advice posted above. I took the plunge and picked up a Sagaris earlier this year. I had always wanted one but I held off as my deposit was down for the new Griffith and I was waiting patiently for the reveal. It took me a while to digest what I really wanted after the Goodwood Revival. Ultimately for me it had to be a Sagaris. I've still got a Griff 500, I previously also had an older Griff 500, plus a 4.5 R/R Cerbera, and only recently px'd my SP6 Cerbera for the Sag. The TVR bug is well and truly under the skin (it's a tough thing to explain and shake off!).

I would definitely speak to Jason at Str8Six for some viewing of their stock, and also visit them for a good chat. I believe Schmoo had some unlisted stock (might be both sold now?), so maybe drop a line to Ed over there too.

I bought my Sagaris from Str8Six (also my 4.5 R/R Cerbera back in 2014), and I wanted a blue one....but now have the Greenie Meanie. There are so few around though, your requirements tend to go out the window if a good one comes up and you just know to jump when it's right...

It all comes down to the condition, the full history and mine was a known car (mine was owned my a PH'er HERE), so it was beneficial searching PH and Faceache, registration searches, google, the Sagaris Register ( HERE).....all just to get comfortable with the cars history.

It really is a special thing. I took it to Le Mans Classic this year, and it was epic in every way. I have no regrets. I guarantee you will love it.

rickyneil

88 posts

123 months

Thursday 18th October 2018
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Another thumbs up for Str8six, their stock may be a little higher priced initially but overall will represent better value, you know that you will get a solid car and have someone reputable to rely on when you have the inevitable settling in issues that all cars have with new owners.

PuffsBack

2,428 posts

224 months

Thursday 18th October 2018
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As above trace cars history through the Sagaris Register, many cars will have owners and ex owners on here so a lot of history will be available. Mine has had 3 owners including myself and the amount of information on the car on the forums is incredible as both previous owners posted both good and bad on here right from new

Thanks Nobby2 and MikMak smile


tvrtuscans

1,009 posts

210 months

Friday 19th October 2018
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I have just taken a look at the Sagaris/T350 forum after a while busy at work. Really good to see all the fab, helpful and insightful advice. I agree with most of the above... except the originality bit Alex 😉! OP take a look at my profile and you will see why! Good luck with your search. Mine is over with Jason at Str8six at the mo for a service, so if you go over there this weekend you will see the car!

Sagi Badger

588 posts

192 months

Friday 19th October 2018
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Mortgage the house, wife, dog and the cat....maybe not the dog hey, and buy one. Makes me laugh every time I start it up......

De cat it and get the chip, then go out and try not to smile.

Ferrari’s are lady’s, these are bad women. If you know what I mean.

J

Waiting to be accused of being non PC or sexist, sorry but don’t know any other suitable metaphors.

PuffsBack

2,428 posts

224 months

Saturday 20th October 2018
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Perfectly non PC - exactly what a Sagaris should be

James_G31

22 posts

88 months

Monday 22nd October 2018
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Hi Mark,
Were you there early Saturday morning for the test drives? How did they go?

I was the nut in my football tracksuit that got up at stupid o'clock to drop the car off and get back up home in time for my game.

Alpinestars

13,954 posts

243 months

Monday 22nd October 2018
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Sagi Badger said:
Mortgage the house, wife, dog and the cat....maybe not the dog hey, and buy one. Makes me laugh every time I start it up......

De cat it and get the chip, then go out and try not to smile.

Ferrari’s are lady’s, these are bad women. If you know what I mean.

J

Waiting to be accused of being non PC or sexist, sorry but don’t know any other suitable metaphors.
What’s this chip please?

markgsmith

Original Poster:

23 posts

66 months

Monday 22nd October 2018
quotequote all
tvrtuscans said:
I have just taken a look at the Sagaris/T350 forum after a while busy at work. Really good to see all the fab, helpful and insightful advice. I agree with most of the above... except the originality bit Alex ??! OP take a look at my profile and you will see why! Good luck with your search. Mine is over with Jason at Str8six at the mo for a service, so if you go over there this weekend you will see the car!
Thank you. Yes saw the car on Saturday, an awesome machine

markgsmith

Original Poster:

23 posts

66 months

Monday 22nd October 2018
quotequote all
James_G31 said:
Hi Mark,
Were you there early Saturday morning for the test drives? How did they go?

I was the nut in my football tracksuit that got up at stupid o'clock to drop the car off and get back up home in time for my game.
Yes, it was me. Test drives went as expected - has to be a Sag