Aston Vs Jag - are we slipping back?
Discussion
michael gould said:
"taking risks and putting massive energy into making a business successful used to be admired".......well in my book it still is ...and furthermore, its admired by my peers.......i suggest (with respect) you either change your group of friends or the paper you read !!
+1 Couldn't agree more. I take great offence at anyone suggesting that what I have has in some way been given to me, or handed down to me. I've achieved it through hard work bacause my parents brought me up with the belief that life didn't owe me anything and if I wanted it I would have to earn it.
EpsomJames said:
Lewis, I also read that thread and TBH I think it was a throw away comment, not really aimed at the marque so I don't think you should read too much into it.
I agree it was a throw away comment, meant without particular malice - u but I do take minor offence as curiosly I find that if you insult Aston, you insult me! Never had that with any other brand, people have laughed at my Marcos ad Lotus for years 
But that the Aston Vs Jag thread posted up by the French chappie that he also commented on got me thing, that was all. He was explicit that the DB9 was light years behind the Jaguar. I wondered if there was grain of truth. Nothing to do with desirability or who went to the best school (?), just wondered had the Jag become a better car than a VH platform Aston due to a shedload of Indian R&D money?
Having had both together at the same time, I can say, that whilst liking the Jag a lot, we never aspired to own one like we did the Aston.
The XK was Tonys co car, forever back at dealers for minor niggles.
In the end he lost no sleep downgrading to an Audi A5 saving almost net £500 per month co car tax, and putting us in a position to get me the V12V.
The Astons have always felt "special" and a dream fulfilled. The XK was just a very nice coupe.
Di
The XK was Tonys co car, forever back at dealers for minor niggles.
In the end he lost no sleep downgrading to an Audi A5 saving almost net £500 per month co car tax, and putting us in a position to get me the V12V.
The Astons have always felt "special" and a dream fulfilled. The XK was just a very nice coupe.
Di
michael gould said:
"taking risks and putting massive energy into making a business successful used to be admired".......well in my book it still is ...and furthermore, its admired by my peers.......i suggest (with respect) you either change your group of friends or the paper you read !!
Plus another 1 on that (even though it is off topic). Business success is to be applauded and even taking the risk in the first place takes large dangly objects.Onto the Aston though, as an ex-racing driver (Yes I am a has-been), I could not dis-agree more. Even though my first Aston was the "underpowered"....... V8V, the driving dynamics were great for a 1.6 ton sports/GT car. Through Europe for 2,500 miles in 2 weeks and on the Nurburgring it was very accomplished in what it delivered by way of enjoyment; so the statement is rubbish, not the car. The car while not perfect, gave masses of positive feedback and has never left me wanting (other than more power). I have not owned a Jaguar, so could not comment, but I am on my second Aston and not looking at a Jag anytime soon.. If this is the comment people are taking seriously, because he happens to be a racing driver, then his opinion holds no more water than a non-racing driver. If you want to go quick, buy a Japanese 4WD turbo charged rocket, they are mind-blowingly fast and cost nothing in comparison. Each car delivers different things to different people, but as to call an Aston rubbish, I don't think many would agree; even off the Aston Martin Forum.
Zod said:
If you work a bit harder, you might be able to afford a decent car. 
whilst you were tapping that out on your keyboard, i was hard at it building a hoist to help make rolls royce engine components get forged a little bit quicker. i didn't have time to mess about on a forum.as for my car, yeh, have a dig if you like. fact is, what i got, for what i paid, is a much better ratio than you can ever get with an aston.
angularocelot said:
Zod said:
If you work a bit harder, you might be able to afford a decent car.
whilst you were tapping that out on your keyboard, i was hard at it building a hoist to help make rolls royce engine components get forged a little bit quicker. i didn't have time to mess about on a forum.as for my car, yeh, have a dig if you like. fact is, what i got, for what i paid, is a much better ratio than you can ever get with an aston.
michael gould said:
I’m 52 years old and despite being the owner of a successful manufacturing business,
are you also "powerfully built"?michael gould said:
exporting to more than 20 countries, I still get to work at 7-30am (this morning it was 7-00am because I have a new employee starting and I wanted to welcome him personally to the company) I normally leave work and hour or so after my employees....I often work Sat and Sun. I object to idiots trying to suggest that my lifestyle is down to "good luck"
what if a couple of big customers went bust, owing you so much money your company went down with it and you had to sell off the aston? that'd be bad luck, wouldn't it?Edited by angularocelot on Monday 6th February 18:33
lady topaz said:
Having had both together at the same time, I can say, that whilst liking the Jag a lot, we never aspired to own one like we did the Aston.
The XK was Tonys co car, forever back at dealers for minor niggles.
In the end he lost no sleep downgrading to an Audi A5 saving almost net £500 per month co car tax, and putting us in a position to get me the V12V.
The Astons have always felt "special" and a dream fulfilled. The XK was just a very nice coupe.
Di
This is a great example of why the original notion is what's rubbish, not Aston. It's in the details. Take a look at the front of both these cars. The Jag front panels stop behind the front of the car, leaving a plastic bumper to finish off the complicated curves (including unsightly horizontal panel line on the nose). This is 'mass manufacturing' - the metal panels are simpler, less expensive and possible to tool up for. But also, less attractive, more compromised.The XK was Tonys co car, forever back at dealers for minor niggles.
In the end he lost no sleep downgrading to an Audi A5 saving almost net £500 per month co car tax, and putting us in a position to get me the V12V.
The Astons have always felt "special" and a dream fulfilled. The XK was just a very nice coupe.
Di
The Aston on the other hand, the metal goes to the very front of the car, in complex curves. This is much more expensive to do but means the final appearance of the car is not compromised. An Aston's beauty is more than luck, it is designed in, and costs more.
The same thinking goes throughout the car.
My own car history includes Subaru STI's (many, still own one today), Jag XKR, Porsche 911, BMW M3, Ferrari 360 and 430 and Aston DB9 and DBS
An Aston is a fine drive, not the most incisive (Ferrari is more), not the fastest point to point in all weathers (Subaru is more), not the most unique (911 is that), not the most technically gifted (430 and probably M3 is that).
The character of Aston is a big, beefy engine, in a beautifully built car, where sheer weight of build cost is used to resolve design compromises. It will devour continents and show a remarkable turn of speed when needed. It is both imposing and understated - a trick that is VERY hard to imitate (go on, try and think of someone who does it better?).
Is Aston outdated and being left behind? Not really, technical ability has never been the sole defining characteristic of a great car. It needs much more.
Jag cannot be a competitor to Aston when it is aimed at a different market and price point because they will not use a 'money no object' approach to the design and build, and that's not something that the advent of technology resolves.
I can tell you from experience that owning a Jag is just not the same as an Aston. The cars drive very well, have their own character, as do Astons. But they are not Astons.
People who see the value in Astons like the idea of no compromise. Ahh, but what about Ford switchgear? For the key aesthetic surfaces, bespoke pieces get designed. For things that are less critical (indicator stalks for example) to use an already proven design that does not materially affect the final product is common sense - no compromise does not invalidate common sense.
Don't get me wrong, I absolutely love Subarus and Porsches and for me, I grew up dreaming of Ferraris, not Aston Martins.
But as much as you can say there is nothing like a Ferrari, you can say it of Aston. I'm afraid Jaguar doesn't really evoke that kind of emotion - not because of the brand but because of what the brand means the product is, good as they are.
yeti said:
Like what? Genuine question! I'd say historically the brands are on a par. The Jags arejust generally more affordable and were made in greater numbers.
Coolest Jag I can think of is the XKSS and I would put the DB4GT or the Zagato against that all day. However I qualify that with the caveat that I am hoping to have an XKSS replica built this year
E-Type? DB5.
D-Type? DBR1
XK120? DB1
Et cetera.
all the cars you mention are pretty cool but c'mon, the d-type/xkss is the coolest car ever built. followed closely by the series 1 e-type.Coolest Jag I can think of is the XKSS and I would put the DB4GT or the Zagato against that all day. However I qualify that with the caveat that I am hoping to have an XKSS replica built this year
E-Type? DB5.
D-Type? DBR1
XK120? DB1
Et cetera.
aston martin can't even get the shade of green right!
angularocelot said:
no it wouldn't. second hand jags, if you find the right one, are the bargain of the century at the moment.
In what respect? Bargain for the mass of the car compared to price? I think a Volvo or old Merc would probably beat it.You can't post up stupid claims using things that cannot be measured.
George H said:
In what respect? Bargain for the mass of the car compared to price? I think a Volvo or old Merc would probably beat it.
You can't post up stupid claims using things that cannot be measured.
i was defending my own choice of vehicle in relation to an aston martin. personally i think the xjs, for what i want it for, is the best value for money around. show me what sort of aston i could get for three and a half grand. even a db7, which is half xjs anyway, is gonna be thirty grand plus.You can't post up stupid claims using things that cannot be measured.
angularocelot said:
michael gould said:
I’m 52 years old and despite being the owner of a successful manufacturing business,
are you also "powerfully built"?michael gould said:
exporting to more than 20 countries, I still get to work at 7-30am (this morning it was 7-00am because I have a new employee starting and I wanted to welcome him personally to the company) I normally leave work and hour or so after my employees....I often work Sat and Sun. I object to idiots trying to suggest that my lifestyle is down to "good luck"
what if a couple of big customers went bust, owing you so much money your company went down with it and you had to sell off the aston? that'd be bad luck, wouldn't it?Edited by angularocelot on Monday 6th February 18:33
angularocelot said:
no it wouldn't. second hand jags, if you find the right one, are the bargain of the century at the moment.
There's a reason for that....... You may feel that you got a lot more for your money than I did...... But the price you pay for such value, is that you have to drive a JagI'm sure you're very happy with your choice, but coming onto an AM forum, extolling the virtues of a Jag is nothing less than Trolling....
Much the same as if I went onto the Porsche, Ferrari, lotus, TVR etc etc forum and told them all, that my AM was superior..... I'd expect a similar response
Lunablack said:
There's a reason for that....... You may feel that you got a lot more for your money than I did...... But the price you pay for such value, is that you have to drive a Jag
I'm sure you're very happy with your choice, but coming onto an AM forum, extolling the virtues of a Jag is nothing less than Trolling....
Much the same as if I went onto the Porsche, Ferrari, lotus, TVR etc etc forum and told them all, that my AM was superior..... I'd expect a similar response
i use the "what's new" function, so don't really take any notice of what forum a thread is in. it's not as if i started a thread on how great jags are. and i only posted as i thought jags were getting an unfair slagging off by one poster........ You may feel that you got a lot more for your money than I did...... But the price you pay for such value, is that you have to drive a JagI'm sure you're very happy with your choice, but coming onto an AM forum, extolling the virtues of a Jag is nothing less than Trolling....
Much the same as if I went onto the Porsche, Ferrari, lotus, TVR etc etc forum and told them all, that my AM was superior..... I'd expect a similar response
i'm fairly new so didn't realise pistonheads was so territorial or that the am forum was full of touchy people.
adieu, adieu, to yer and yer and yer.
angularocelot said:
mikey k said:
Working hard is not working smart.
I came from a council estate and worked smart and hard.
teehee! you sound like a cross between alan partridge and the "considerably richer than yow" feller off the 'fast show'.I came from a council estate and worked smart and hard.
From your posts you seem to have a bit of a chip on your shoulder and enjoy a good troll.
If does it for your great, mines sat in the garage all paid for
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