Geneva road trip & tour of JLC Manufacture

[George H]

AMDBSNick said:

I have just had to Google that George - why?????? You are no longer in a position to question anyones taste

What?! The engineering and detailing in it are absolutely amazing! It's a work of art!

I'd love an RM020 too... looks great as a pocket watch

[George H]

v8woollie said:

Enjoy the next ten years of eating ramen then

It's only my ambition, I doubt I'll actually achieve it!

[jonby]

George H said:

Never really been a Blancplain fan to be honest... I'm saving for a Richard Mille RM008 for the time I'm 40

Think there's a lot of hype in Richard Mille - they do look stunning, but they are ridiculously overpriced - there's a reason they depreciate so much......I'd be careful unless you were looking to buy 2nd hand

[George H]

jonby said:

Think there's a lot of hype in Richard Mille - they do look stunning, but they are ridiculously overpriced - there's a reason they depreciate so much......I'd be careful unless you were looking to buy 2nd hand

I would buy 2nd hand, and there's no way I'd ever sell it

[jonby]

George H said:

jonby said:

Think there's a lot of hype in Richard Mille - they do look stunning, but they are ridiculously overpriced - there's a reason they depreciate so much......I'd be careful unless you were looking to buy 2nd hand

I would buy 2nd hand, and there's no way I'd ever sell it

It's an amazing set of factors which contribute to which watches hold their value and which don't. For instance why do s/s rolexes hold their value so much better than gold and as for two tone.....

We sell watches from time to time and there are some watches that are perceived as being members of that elite club - Rolex, Patek, JLC, etc and others, likes say Frank Muller or Cartier, that simply aren't.

The last time I spoke to a 'used' dealer about Richard Mille, he said he would be very cautious about getting into one as the trade are somewhat suspicious of it as a brand. Perhaps some of that is simply that the brand is not that old.

The advantage is that a lot of 2nd hand prices are highly negotiable, so whilst that RM008 may be out of reach for a while, other Milles may be surprisngly affordable - these auction results give as good idea of what;s doable

http://www.christies.com/lotfinder/watches/richard...

http://www.christies.com/lotfinder/watches/richard...

http://www.christies.com/lotfinder/watches/richard...

Edited by jonby on Tuesday 2nd October 13:26

[AMDBSNick]

jonby said:

say Frank Muller or Cartier, that simply aren't.

Interesting. My SS Santos I bought used 25 years ago is worth well over double now

[v8woollie]

A lesson I learned very early on in my watch collecting - never think of a watch as an investment that will hold or increase its value. Very few do and only Patek has a solid history of doing so, apart from the really high end pieces from other manufactures. That said, part of the reason a Patek will hold value is that they add a 10% price increase every year, so you can almost always get your money back (albeit it is worth less due to inflation etc.).

Add the two factors of:

- the secondary market dealers that buy up stock and (as an example) now it is hard to get a Rolex Daytona without paying over retail (unless you want to wait a few years)

- the fact that many watches can be purchased for up to 20% below retail from authorised dealers and boutiques

and then you find that the used market expects at least 30-40% off the new retail price before considering a purchase. So your lovely new watch that you paid full price for is instantly worth 40% less as soon as you walk out of the shop (unless it is a Tour de l'Ile (my personal grail watch), Gyrotourbillon, Tryptique or some other high-end watch).

Edited by v8woollie on Tuesday 2nd October 13:59

[jonby]

AMDBSNick said:

jonby said:

say Frank Muller or Cartier, that simply aren't.

Interesting. My SS Santos I bought used 25 years ago is worth well over double now

Over 25 years, yes. But take my Santos 100 bought when they came out in c. 2004/5 from memory and my Rolex Sub bought around 2/3 yrs later - I could sell my sub for 50% more than I paid for it but I'd be lucky to get back my money on the Cartier

IMO Cartiers should mostly be considered more as a piece of jewellery than a watch

I have a GMT master bought perhaps nearer 30 yrs ago and for comparison to your cartier, it's worth 4-6 times what I (well my father!) paid for it. doubling in 25 yrs is better than losing money but it's not great compared to inflation, especially after servicing costs are taken into account ! :-)

Edited by jonby on Tuesday 2nd October 14:37

[jonby]

v8woollie said:

A lesson I learned very early on in my watch collecting - never think of a watch as an investment that will hold or increase its value. Very few do and only Patek has a solid history of doing so, apart from the really high end pieces from other manufactures. That said, part of the reason a Patek will hold value is that they add a 10% price increase every year, so you can almost always get your money back (albeit it is worth less due to inflation etc.).

ss rolexes are the one exception to that rule. not high end in this company but partly because like patek, the new price keeps going up, they make an amazing investment

Edited by jonby on Tuesday 2nd October 14:32

[v8woollie]

jonby said:

ss rolexes are the one exception to that rule. not high end in this company but partly because like patek, the new price keeps going up, they make an amazing investment

Edited by jonby on Tuesday 2nd October 14:32

True. The old style Sea Dweller is a classic for me. God only knows that the designer was thinking when he designed the Deep Sea! One day I will have a Comex Seadweller

[AMDBSNick]

jonby said:

servicing costs

Is it supposed to be serviced

[v8woollie]

AMDBSNick said:

Is it supposed to be serviced

Treat it like a car. Mechanical watches should be serviced at least every five years even if just to repalce the lubrication in the movement.

I've had my EWC for over five years. I took it to the JLC boutique in London and put it on the machine to test the rate and the amplitude. The rate was +0 and the amplitude was 279. So my watch is spot on accurate and has the amplitude strength of a new watch. I therefore decided to leave the servicing for another year at least.

Worth checking before sending a watch for service as the rate and apmplitude are good indicators of the oils coagulating or wear in the movement.

[jonby]

AMDBSNick said:

jonby said:

servicing costs

Is it supposed to be serviced

loads of reasons it should be:
as woolie says, partly for lubrication (though your cartier could be a quartz in which case it's less necessary)
partly to renew the waterproof seal if you use it in water
partly because they polish up the case & bracelet to almost like new
partly becaue again if mechanical, the watch will tend to start losing/gaining time and needs 're-regulating'
partly because then you realise you need to buy another watch to wear whilst waiting for the one being serviced to come back ! :-)

[yeti]

v8woollie said:

The old style Sea Dweller is a classic for me.

16600

I wear mine all the time, perhaps more than any of the others. It's more than doubled in value over the decade I have had it and still looks great despite some proper knocks and experiences

Mine is a fairly early one still with a tritium dial. Interesting what you say about the DeepSea Woollie, I quite like it... but not enough to trade one for the other... and owning both would be slightly pointless

If someone with a realistic budget said to me 'I want two watches to cover all the bases' I would say a Submariner/SeaDweller and an Omega Speedmaster Professional. Never tire of either of those and the speedy also looks very elegant on a strap. And what a history; usually exaggerated but still fantastic.

[v8woollie]

To offset the costs Nick you could always supply your own lubricating oil

[yeti]

v8woollie said:

To offset the costs Nick you could always supply your own lubricating oil

Molybedenum grease

Seiko are, I belive, the only manufacture who make their own..?

[yeti]

AMDBSNick said:

Is it supposed to be serviced

Most people service them when they stop running right. Running the risk of sounding even more like a tool than normal, I have so many watches that none of them really get worn that often and so very few require a service. In fact i have only ever had 2 Breitlings serviced, my SuperOcean was my first watch and I never took it off, must have run it for 7-8yrs before a service and the other was rare Breitling Spatiographe that got some moisture into the case.

Otherwise all is well. May have the SeaDweller done at some point, I would like the water resistance ensured, it's over 20yrs old but was serviced by the previous owner I assume (the hands are SuperLuminova therefore not original so it's been fiddled with).

[jonby]

v8woollie said:

To offset the costs Nick you could always supply your own lubricating oil

brilliant !!!! :-)

[v8woollie]

yeti said:

Molybedenum grease

Seiko are, I belive, the only manufacture who make their own..?

Or better still is JLC's pioneering use of Easium carbonitride as seen in the Extreme LAB. No grease at all

[jonby]

yeti said:

v8woollie said:

The old style Sea Dweller is a classic for me.

16600

I wear mine all the time, perhaps more than any of the others. It's more than doubled in value over the decade I have had it and still looks great despite some proper knocks and experiences

Mine is a fairly early one still with a tritium dial. Interesting what you say about the DeepSea Woollie, I quite like it... but not enough to trade one for the other... and owning both would be slightly pointless

If someone with a realistic budget said to me 'I want two watches to cover all the bases' I would say a Submariner/SeaDweller and an Omega Speedmaster Professional. Never tire of either of those and the speedy also looks very elegant on a strap. And what a history; usually exaggerated but still fantastic.

I think the remarkable thing about almost any ss Rolex watch, certainly the Subs and the GMT Masters, is that they are quite literally all the watch you ever need. I wore my GMT Master for around 15 yrs, as effectively my only watch, from age 16 (it was a present from my father, who gave it to me a few years old when he replaced it with a gold datejust) to around my 30th birthday. From 2 week holidays by and in the sea/pool, to skiing, to work, to a black tie do, to sleeping in, they are remarkably resiliant and suitable for pretty much any occasion bar somewhere that you need to wear a really cheap watch like say backpacking. It's particularly good if you are going away and want one watch for the entire holiday