Checking Oil Level on a V12VS
Discussion
This all seems very strange now that I think about it. I'm no engine scientist, but with a wet sump, when the engine's cold, the oil sits at the bottom and you see if there's enough in there by using a dipstick. That's a logical, tried and tested method I believe.
What's the point of starting up the engine and circulating oil for 15 seconds at 2,000rpm, then switching it off, then checking the oil level with 15 seconds worth of oil no longer in the sump?
What if you run it for 17 seconds at 2,100rpm? Also, how long do you get from switching the engine off to checking the oil?
Why haven't Aston Martin issued a bulletin to all V12VS owners stating the procedure in the manual is incorrect?
Am I being a dipstick?
What's the point of starting up the engine and circulating oil for 15 seconds at 2,000rpm, then switching it off, then checking the oil level with 15 seconds worth of oil no longer in the sump?
What if you run it for 17 seconds at 2,100rpm? Also, how long do you get from switching the engine off to checking the oil?
Why haven't Aston Martin issued a bulletin to all V12VS owners stating the procedure in the manual is incorrect?
Am I being a dipstick?
IanV12VR said:
The oil checking procedure is different for the V12V compared with the V12VS. The procedure as described by CSK is correct for the S but is not included in the early manuals for the cars. It may have been corrected for later cars.
I have had it confirmed by People at Gaydon when I asked them to confirm because I was confused over the change. I have both versions so important to understand that I need to check the oil correctly
This is fascinating. So the oil checking procedure is not in the manual for early V12VS and the company has not sent out any addenda or advisories to owners? Sounds like either:I have had it confirmed by People at Gaydon when I asked them to confirm because I was confused over the change. I have both versions so important to understand that I need to check the oil correctly
a. there is not going to be a substantial difference between oil levels checked without running the engine first, and with the 'new' method, or
b. Aston is actually looking forward to litigation when someone who owns an S runs into engine trouble from low oil, because the company didn't bother to notify of the correct procedure.
quench said:
This is fascinating. So the oil checking procedure is not in the manual for early V12VS and the company has not sent out any addenda or advisories to owners? Sounds like either:
a. there is not going to be a substantial difference between oil levels checked without running the engine first, and with the 'new' method, or
b. Aston is actually looking forward to litigation when someone who owns an S runs into engine trouble from low oil, because the company didn't bother to notify of the correct procedure.
Regarding b I think it will be the other way round. Those who check the oil without running the engine will have low oil recorded, will then put in more and over fill. The difference in my case would have been significant - somewhere between 1 or 2 litres. a. there is not going to be a substantial difference between oil levels checked without running the engine first, and with the 'new' method, or
b. Aston is actually looking forward to litigation when someone who owns an S runs into engine trouble from low oil, because the company didn't bother to notify of the correct procedure.
If you have any spare time Ian, you are in a position to add some facts to this topic.
1. With cold engine, note the level of oil on the dipstick.
2. Using the V12VS official procedure, note the oil level again after running the engine. Presumably it would now be a lower level reading, because some oil has been moved from the sump into other parts of the engine.
How much difference is there between the two oil level checks?
Edited by Jon39 on Monday 23 November 14:14
Fwiw I have just spoken to Works who have confirmed ( again ) that the oil should be checked on the V12S when completely cold. The handbook is silent as others have said but I am happy to go along with this as exactly the same information from the factory when discussing what a pain the dry sump procedure was.
IanV12VR said:
Regarding b I think it will be the other way round. Those who check the oil without running the engine will have low oil recorded, will then put in more and over fill.
Patently wrong. Running the engine, even if only for a few seconds, will move oil from the sump to the upper part of the engine, thus lowering the oil level as measured by the dip stick, i.e., false low reading.alscar said:
Fwiw I have just spoken to Works who have confirmed ( again ) that the oil should be checked on the V12S when completely cold. The handbook is silent as others have said but I am happy to go along with this as exactly the same information from the factory when discussing what a pain the dry sump procedure was.
I'm happy to continue using the completely cold method. How can you possibly get an accurate reading using the running for a bit method, and why would the procedure be different for the V12VS engine, which is just a tuned derivative of all the other recent Aston V12 engines?I do need to check the manual though as I fear I may have been checking my windscreen washer fluid levels incorrectly.
I have never checked my washer fluid. With mostly dry running, the washers are rarely used.
Had noticed though that the washer reservoir is not visible, so reluctantly will have to read the manual.
Perhaps the designers wanted to have the washer fluid container as low in the car as possible, to help improve the cornering.
This is all quite confusing as we have Gaydon, my Dutch dealer and Grange advising a different procedure than the one Works is apparently advising.
I've just asked the French dealer and he says not to run the engine before checking and sent me a scan of the page explaining the procedure in the latest V12VS owner's guide which also states check with a cold engine. No mention of running the engine before.
French dealer also says that if you need to check the oil after having run the engine, you need to wait at least 10 to 15 minutes to allow the oil to flow back to the sump before checking. Seems all logical to me but someone is surely wrong here! Very confusing indeed, this could lead to an expensive mistake if we don't do it correctly!
I've just asked the French dealer and he says not to run the engine before checking and sent me a scan of the page explaining the procedure in the latest V12VS owner's guide which also states check with a cold engine. No mention of running the engine before.
French dealer also says that if you need to check the oil after having run the engine, you need to wait at least 10 to 15 minutes to allow the oil to flow back to the sump before checking. Seems all logical to me but someone is surely wrong here! Very confusing indeed, this could lead to an expensive mistake if we don't do it correctly!
CSK1 said:
Sure everyone agrees about the engine needing to be completely cold. Views are differing if we let the engine run for about 15 secs at about 2,000 RPM prior to checking the level or not.
The only differing views are from ill-informed dealers. How simple can it be to understand; running the engine gives a false low reading. It ain't rocket science.DB9VolanteDriver said:
CSK1 said:
Sure everyone agrees about the engine needing to be completely cold. Views are differing if we let the engine run for about 15 secs at about 2,000 RPM prior to checking the level or not.
The only differing views are from ill-informed dealers. How simple can it be to understand; running the engine gives a false low reading. It ain't rocket science.Best one I had was when I first picked up my V8VS from the dealer. I asked the salesman where I connected the battery conditioner which came with the car. (My first Aston, I didn't know, so a reasonable question I thought).
He proceeded to open the bonnet and pointed in the general direction of the engine and quickly said 'it goes in here' then closed the bonnet and walked off.
It was unbelievable, but I was far too excited about picking up the car to care, and quickly found the answer in the manual, along with how much of a faff checking the oil on a dry sump motor was going to be.....
Not sure what happened to the guy who did the handover, but the chap I actually bought the car off said he'd sought alternate employment.
Well, I must say the guy who did the handover seemed very much in the know and took a lot of time to explain every feature of the car in detail. He probably spent at least an hour and a half explaining the entire car before going on a test drive. He told me about everything: satnav, battery conditioner, every button's function, how to jump start the car showing me where to connect the cables, he seemed extremely knowledgeable and helpful, an enthusiast, not just a salesman, he had just sold a DB6 and he knew everything about that car too so not the average salesperson.
The dealer is also one of the oldest overseas AM dealers.
The dealer is also one of the oldest overseas AM dealers.
Edited by CSK1 on Monday 23 November 19:32
Simply applying common sense when I wrote my first contribution, turned out to be correct eventually.
Not V12VS, but some V8V owners might find this point useful.
I was trying to follow the oil check instructions as a new owner, and encountered a muddle.
The handbook states something to the effect, first check dry sump oil tank dipstick. If there is oil on the dipstick, then run the engine for 20 seconds.
I added oil, then after doing the engine state procedure, found the oil level was overfilled.
What they do not say, as far as I know, is that if you have not used the car for a few weeks, the oil in the top part of the tank will have drained away, and nothing will show on the dipstick.
It took me quite a while to suck out the excess oil using a small tube. Be warned.
CSK , I think the dealer was trying to be helpful and suggest perhaps that you check the level having assuming you had actually topped it up, by starting the car although I imagine people rarely do this and just rely on sight when topping up.
Given the V12S doesnt seem to use much oil the whole debate is possibly slightly academic.
Anyway back to important things - how are you actually enjoying the car ?
Given the V12S doesnt seem to use much oil the whole debate is possibly slightly academic.
Anyway back to important things - how are you actually enjoying the car ?
Just had confirmation from Aston Martin Works that the oil level should be checked when the engine is cold, the engine should NOT be started prior to checking level as opposed to the dry-sumped V8.
I think we can trust Works, can't we?
They said it is the same for V12 and V12S.
@Alscar: Enjoying the car immensely, thanks. I was worried I wouldn't like Sportshift but as has been said before on here, as long as you treat it as a manual, which it is, it is great! I love this car, probably one of the last analog Aston Martins.
I think we can trust Works, can't we?
They said it is the same for V12 and V12S.
@Alscar: Enjoying the car immensely, thanks. I was worried I wouldn't like Sportshift but as has been said before on here, as long as you treat it as a manual, which it is, it is great! I love this car, probably one of the last analog Aston Martins.
Gassing Station | Aston Martin | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff