GT12 performance pack for V12VS

[Brakke]

jonby said:

There's so much I want to say about this wider issue but right now I can't...................must.....keep......gob......shut.......

GO on, its a forum after all.
Youre going to have a bed night's sleep if you dont

[Bincenzo]

jonby said:

Brakke said:

For some magical reason AM gets away with this kind of non-sense.


EDIT: this is not about just the power output or future value. This is about AM selling something as their top tier product (of which hp is a part of ) and then for $$$ sake trying to make a few 100k extra with this upgrade. Someone needs to teach them the meaning of customer life time value. They are losing millions just to gain a few 100k extra. Idiots.

Edited by Brakke on Thursday 15th September 10:13

There's so much I want to say about this wider issue but right now I can't...................must.....keep......gob......shut.......

Please do.....

[J12KJR]

dredders said:

J12KJR said:

Dave

Very interested in this mod for when my warranty runs out in a year or so.
How will it be at MOT time? ie any special measures needed or will it pass straight off with the mod?

The factory secondary cats remain which are more than adequate to pass mot
emissions when primary cats are removed. Primary cats are mainly for cold start
clean up, secondary cats do the bulk of gas conversion.

Thanks Dave

No brainier at the end of warranty, had BR do the high flow cats on my V8 and was very impressed with their work.

How much difference is there in the sound? Just louder or a change of exhaust note? I like the sound of my V12VS but wouldn't mind some extra volume when in the mood.

[RobDown]

ah come on, you cant drop hints like that! Are we all about to be stuffed by a flood of special edition V12Vs marketed at £50k to use up surplus parts?

[AMDBSVNick]

jonby said:

As with BR's 'full fat kit', the majority of the power kit's power increase comes from de-catting but the majority of the price is for something different

Wrong I'm afraid Jonby

I think the majority of the price is for the bespoke hardware made, a pair of high lift inlet cams, a stunning manifold and cat assembly, the rest of the spend is for about 15 hours installation time. Both total about £90 per BHP which is pretty awesome VFM?? Dredders didn't want a failed engine so paid his money as an upfront insurance and got the power for free, making it a win-win for him which is even better.

[jonby]

AMDBSVNick said:

jonby said:

As with BR's 'full fat kit', the majority of the power kit's power increase comes from de-catting but the majority of the price is for something different

Wrong I'm afraid Jonby

I think the majority of the price is for the bespoke hardware made, a pair of high lift inlet cams, a stunning manifold and cat assembly, the rest of the spend is for about 15 hours installation time. Both total about £90 per BHP which is pretty awesome VFM?? Dredders didn't want a failed engine so paid his money as an upfront insurance and got the power for free, making it a win-win for him which is even better.

I think you may have misunderstood my point Nick

I suspect the majority of the power increase in the kit you describe above comes from the removal of the header cats. I'm not denying the cost of all the above, or arguing about value, but as with GT12 exhaust, the bottom line is a V12V/S comes with header and rear cats mainly in order to meet global emissions standards and the reality is, just removing one set of cats (whichever set they are) is the most impactful factor on the power boost. Being made out of a different metal, being equal length, being shiny & pretty, etc seems in relative terms to have less impact on power

[AMDBSVNick]

jonby said:

The reality is, just removing one set of cats (whichever set they are) is the most impactful factor on the power boost. Being made out of a different metal, being equal length, being shiny & pretty, etc seems in relative terms to have less impact on power

Not really.

By keeping the primary cat in place and keeping std EMS is all the factory can do because changing either of those would put them at odds with vehicle homologation. They probably argue the secondary cats purpose is just deterioration factor emissions test passing @ 100k miles, and they probably cobbled a car / spec together to pass that test on GT12 thus being able to safely in the eyes of emissions laws, remove the secondary cats now for a wider 'kit'.

The reality is that removing the primary cat, obviously, because it's sat right close to the engine so is clearly the biggest power zapper is the biggest single route to increase power. BR as aftermarket can do that (as on Dredders car) and whilst it still passes MOT, delivers way more performance for way less spend than the GT12 kit.

Finally, do not underestimate the value of finishing touches that the best material spec, the most optimal runner length dimension and blah, blah, blah makes - this is how one F1 team nudges ahead of another - it's in the detail

[CSK1]

Ideally I'd take the Performance Pack and at a later stage when the warranty runs out remove the primary cats resulting in more power than the GT12 for a fraction of the cost (just annoying the GT12 owners here!). I know it won't make mine a GT12 Roadster but nice to have some more power, completely unnecessary but I like the idea of a 600BHP+ Roadster.

[carbonfib3r]

Brakke said:

I was considering a GT12 recently.... I know one for sale which is ALMOST in budget.

The reason I want a GT12: most powerful out-of-factory produced Vantage using a naturally aspirated engine EVER and probably last one.
I like that its limited to 100 units.
I like the agressive looks and CF bits
I like the aero.

I like it because its the best of the best that AM offer as their top range model.

Now....those idiotts go and offer the power upgrade to standard model cars.

Now no longer is it the best of the best in all fields for AM. It has a significant hared component with a standard car.
Imagine if you buy a 675LT and then McLaren offer the same power-upgrade to 650S drivers (I know its a bit more tricky, but for arguments sake lets believe it is feasible and offered).
Do you really think people would accept this kind of non-sense????
Paying the massive premium of owning a 675LT and then seeing standard cars match your poweroutput with a 13K investment?
At least McLaren screw you over only by creating a new limited model that is much alike the previous limited model. Aston do the same but on top of that offer the upgrade to standard cars.


For some magical reason AM gets away with this kind of non-sense.




EDIT: this is not about just the power output or future value. This is about AM selling something as their top tier product (of which hp is a part of ) and then for $$$ sake trying to make a few 100k extra with this upgrade. Someone needs to teach them the meaning of customer life time value. They are losing millions just to gain a few 100k extra. Idiots.

Edited by Brakke on Thursday 15th September 10:13

Spot on!!!!!!!!!

I'd expect AM to offer an upgrade package to Vulcan spec for GT12 in no time.

How exciting.

[carbonfib3r]

CSK1 said:

Ideally I'd take the Performance Pack and at a later stage when the warranty runs out remove the primary cats resulting in more power than the GT12 for a fraction of the cost (just annoying the GT12 owners here!).

.

Ha, Nice try mate, I am afraid you are going to have to try harder as AM has done a pretty good job at winding us up.

[carbonfib3r]

jonby said:

There's so much I want to say about this wider issue but right now I can't...................must.....keep......gob......shut.......

Please do share jonby.

[jonby]

carbonfib3r said:

jonby said:

There's so much I want to say about this wider issue but right now I can't...................must.....keep......gob......shut.......

Please do share jonby.

I just mean the issue in the post I commented on about Aston (and others) upsetting customers by forsaking trust for the sake of long term loyalty with this upgrade pack, V12VS manual, the commented on earlier 1,000 limit for V12V which as dropped, the apparent extra V12VR prototypes (which were later meant they dropped a few production cars to keep the 101 limit), etc

They seem to have learned from past mistakes with regards to stated production numbers (they went to noticeable great lengths to talk transparently about RB001 numbers) but as for final variations/'last ofs' Aston unfortunately seem to be taking a leaf out of Mclaren's book with all their extra 675LT & P1 derivatives

The bit I'm keeping my gob shut on is something personal I can't say anything about right now

[carbonfib3r]

jonby said:

I just mean the issue in the post I commented on about Aston (and others) upsetting customers by forsaking trust for the sake of long term loyalty with this upgrade pack, V12VS manual, the commented on earlier 1,000 limit for V12V which as dropped, the apparent extra V12VR prototypes (which were later meant they dropped a few production cars to keep the 101 limit), etc

They seem to have learned from past mistakes with regards to stated production numbers (they went to noticeable great lengths to talk transparently about RB001 numbers) but as for final variations/'last ofs' Aston unfortunately seem to be taking a leaf out of Mclaren's book with all their extra 675LT & P1 derivatives

The bit I'm keeping my gob shut on is something personal I can't say anything about right now

Thanks jonby.

I still love my GT12 and intend to keep it for as long as I can, hence future value is irrelevant.

It's a shame AM has now completely ruined it's brand credibility with all the smart tricks they have pulled out. GT12 will no longer be as unique as it would/should have been and it's now just a V12VS with fancy body kits.

AM no more.

[George29]

carbonfib3r said:

Thanks jonby.

I still love my GT12 and intend to keep it for as long as I can, hence future value is irrelevant.

It's a shame AM has now completely ruined it's brand credibility with all the smart tricks they have pulled out. GT12 will no longer be as unique as it would/should have been and it's now just a V12VS with fancy body kits.

AM no more.

Slight over reaction?! Completely ruined its brand credibility? Really?

All because they sell an exhaust and some manifolds to other customers. Look at it another way - since there were so few GT12s sold, how many disappointed customers do you reckon there have been saying "I wish my car sounded like that" etc, well now they can do that. Also park your GT12 next to a V12VS with this kit and not one person is going to be confused which is which...

[jonby]

Interestingly someone posted about the 1,000 V12V limit - in fact, very little more than 1,000 were made in the original markets the car was launched in, if one excludes V12VS, V12V roadster, GT12, etc

Communication between marketing, design, production, sales, dealerships, etc seems at best, 'improved but nowhere near good enough' and I think in Aston's case, that's definitely at the heart of a number of customer 'grievances'.

[CSK1]

Just had confirmation that Performance Pack diffuser won't look the same as GT12's, the existing diffuser will be changed and will take the same space as the existing one. No pictures available as it is currently being made for AML.
Now I differ from people here saying AML are idiots, the Performance Pack consists of magnesium manifolds, a titanium exhaust, a different muffler and exhaust pipes and a new diffuser that will be quite different to the one fitted to the GT12, how can someone be offended by this? The GT12 is a totally different car. The few mods of the Performance Pack don't turn a V12VS into a GT12.

Edited by CSK1 on Thursday 15th September 22:10

[V8V Pete]

carbonfib3r said:

So what's next? A power upgrade for all V8 Vantage to match GT8 output? I'd be surprised if AM doesn't offer it in the near future.

So easy to go way past 440 bhp by putting decent exhaust manifolds on any 4.7 V8V so who cares? I suspect very few GT8 owners will because they didn't order/buy their cars because they had 10 bhp more than a V8VS, they bought them because they are very special in so many other ways. I think you need to calm down, get over yourself and find some real problems to worry about but it's just my opinion. Whatever you do, just keep smiling and enjoy driving your fantastic car, or isn't that why you bought it?

[CSK1]

Exactly!

[hornbaek]

I think i would be more concerned about the fact that there are now more than 5 GT12s for sale in and around London for grossly inflated "premiums" by so-called "loyal" customers.

[RobDown]

V8V Pete said:

carbonfib3r said:

So what's next? A power upgrade for all V8 Vantage to match GT8 output? I'd be surprised if AM doesn't offer it in the near future.

So easy to go way past 440 bhp by putting decent exhaust manifolds on any 4.7 V8V so who cares? I suspect very few GT8 owners will

Funnily enough, that's exactly what I'm contemplating doing with mine once it arrives (and I've had time to check out how 440bhp in a lightened Vantage feels in practice)