2018 Vantage photos
Discussion
HBradley said:
We should start a wager on this?
AP has stated publically that future models will have a manual option, but I cannot see the current 7-speed ticking the 'Innovation' box?!
At the same time (& despite AP's opposition to dual clutch units) my money is firmly on an AMG DCT from the GT as it reflects what attracts new buyers. 2p dropped.
My money is on the 7-Speed manual and the AMG-DC box. We know (assume) the new Vantage will have 500+bhp, so the 7 speed manual would I assume probably work well (I know sweet FA about the actual mechanics of whether it would work or not).AP has stated publically that future models will have a manual option, but I cannot see the current 7-speed ticking the 'Innovation' box?!
At the same time (& despite AP's opposition to dual clutch units) my money is firmly on an AMG DCT from the GT as it reflects what attracts new buyers. 2p dropped.
Personally I think hardcore Manual fans will accept a 7-speed dog leg as opposed to nothing........as Adam and other owners have said, give it a week and it's second nature anyway. Remember manuals used to have 4 gears, so when they went to 5 and then 6 it was a change, so what's the difference.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2017/02/24/ast...
http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/cars/article-42...
If hardware is shared from partner / parent and is straightforward copy / paste (the main point of such a relationship / the exercise??!!), the development costs are basically just 'proving' of the shared parts in the new application and not £fundamental design and durability and then proving costs if making a component afresh.
Palmer states in relation to the recently reported £162.8m pre-tax loss for 2016, up from £128m in 2015, “We produced 3,687 cars in 2016 and earnings before EBITDA / before exceptionals was an all time record of £101m - the previous high was £92m in a year when we made 7,200 cars, so we’ve doubled the efficiency of the business.”
I say they haven't increased 'efficiency' compared to the year they sold 7200 cars, more like they simply sold more specials and V12 cars than the lower % revenue generator V8 cars. To claw the £162m loss back to the black, they are gonna have to be super efficient in every area, which I would say starts with taking a close look at V8 - the lower % profit earning car in the range, and questioning how bespoke they make it compared from a copy / paste of all current Merc architecture.
With that in mind, New V8 will 100% offer a manual??
Aston Martin sells about 20pc of its vehicles to U.K, The second biggest market is the US. So is there really appetite for a manual in the remaining 60% ROW? Considering that manual take-up from US and UK is, say, no more than 10-15% of the 40%??
So, for V8, which is the lower % revenue generator derivative (and Palmer wants efficiencies), and for the low % market uptake, will they invest in ££product development beyond a copy / paste from component supplier to give 3 pedals? Perhaps, but the only scenario I see that happening is if the 3 pedal carries a significant premium compared to std auto version, because surely they can't be serious about going forward with the dog leg sticking plaster solution for new V8??
Yeah, at this point I'd wager no manual, I could be right, I could be wrong. But staring down the barrel of a £162m loss gun I wouldn't of done 5.2L V12 either, I would copy / paste lock stock Merc and turn off AMEP and internal R&D until such a time the company was back in the black. So if it ain't on the Merc shelf - they won't do it unless at a premium would be my guess
http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/cars/article-42...
If hardware is shared from partner / parent and is straightforward copy / paste (the main point of such a relationship / the exercise??!!), the development costs are basically just 'proving' of the shared parts in the new application and not £fundamental design and durability and then proving costs if making a component afresh.
Palmer states in relation to the recently reported £162.8m pre-tax loss for 2016, up from £128m in 2015, “We produced 3,687 cars in 2016 and earnings before EBITDA / before exceptionals was an all time record of £101m - the previous high was £92m in a year when we made 7,200 cars, so we’ve doubled the efficiency of the business.”
I say they haven't increased 'efficiency' compared to the year they sold 7200 cars, more like they simply sold more specials and V12 cars than the lower % revenue generator V8 cars. To claw the £162m loss back to the black, they are gonna have to be super efficient in every area, which I would say starts with taking a close look at V8 - the lower % profit earning car in the range, and questioning how bespoke they make it compared from a copy / paste of all current Merc architecture.
With that in mind, New V8 will 100% offer a manual??
Aston Martin sells about 20pc of its vehicles to U.K, The second biggest market is the US. So is there really appetite for a manual in the remaining 60% ROW? Considering that manual take-up from US and UK is, say, no more than 10-15% of the 40%??
So, for V8, which is the lower % revenue generator derivative (and Palmer wants efficiencies), and for the low % market uptake, will they invest in ££product development beyond a copy / paste from component supplier to give 3 pedals? Perhaps, but the only scenario I see that happening is if the 3 pedal carries a significant premium compared to std auto version, because surely they can't be serious about going forward with the dog leg sticking plaster solution for new V8??
Yeah, at this point I'd wager no manual, I could be right, I could be wrong. But staring down the barrel of a £162m loss gun I wouldn't of done 5.2L V12 either, I would copy / paste lock stock Merc and turn off AMEP and internal R&D until such a time the company was back in the black. So if it ain't on the Merc shelf - they won't do it unless at a premium would be my guess
BamfordMike said:
Yeah, at this point I'd wager no manual, I could be right, I could be wrong. But staring down the barrel of a £162m loss gun I wouldn't of done 5.2L V12 either, I would copy / paste lock stock Merc and turn off AMEP and internal R&D until such a time the company was back in the black. So if it ain't on the Merc shelf - they won't do it unless at a premium would be my guess
I'll take the wager if you're offering. As far as I am concerned, there is effectively no doubt there will be a manual offering in new vantagejonby said:
I'll take the wager if you're offering. As far as I am concerned, there is effectively no doubt there will be a manual offering in new vantage
So the wager is at Job1, not a few months down the line, a rest of world manual derivative is available at no cost uplift compared auto?BamfordMike said:
jonby said:
I'll take the wager if you're offering. As far as I am concerned, there is effectively no doubt there will be a manual offering in new vantage
So the wager is at Job1, not a few months down the line, a rest of world manual derivative is available at no cost uplift compared auto?By 'rest of world', I'm not sure what you mean. Available in every single market ? I have no idea. But in a number of major markets including UK & US, yes, as otherwise there is no point. Will it be available in say China ? Possibly not
No cost option ? I hadn't even thought about it, but I assume so. On the basis that this is a bit of fun, happy to accept that condition. You seemed fairly clear that right now, without conditions, you'd wager on there being no manual option in next gen Vantage, whatever the circumstances. I think the opposite although of course Aston have been known to backtrack before :-)
Mk2 Vantage with manual gearbox.
There is one thing that stops me applying my usual logic to this gearbox discussion.
It is a matter that Bamford Mike has referred to in the past, and seems to involve some sort of regulation, bureaucracy, or type approval restriction.
Was the 7 speed dog leg manual in the V8VS used, because regulations prohibited a physically different gearbox? My understanding is that it is therefore probably an identical gearbox to the SS3 (just without the electronic system to change the gears).
A better gearbox to have used must have been the existing 6 speed manual (V8V and V12V), because 6 gears are quite adequate for most drivers of these cars, considering the torque produced by the powerful engines, but would that have not been allowed by whatever these (unknown to me) regulations are?
Are the V8V and V12VSM gearboxes both made by Graziano?
Jon39 said:
Mk2 Vantage with manual gearbox.
There is one thing that stops me applying my usual logic to this gearbox discussion.
It is a matter that Bamford Mike has referred to in the past, and seems to involve some sort of regulation, bureaucracy, or type approval restriction.
Was the 7 speed dog leg manual in the V8VS used, because regulations prohibited a physically different gearbox? My understanding is that it is therefore probably an identical gearbox to the SS3 (just without the electronic system to change the gears).
A better gearbox to have used must have been the existing 6 speed manual (V8V and V12V), because 6 gears are quite adequate for most drivers of these cars, considering the torque produced by the powerful engines, but would that have not been allowed by whatever these (unknown to me) regulations are?
Are the V8V and V12VSM gearboxes both made by Graziano?
The type approval comment iirc was that V12V (510BHP) and V12VS (565BHP) would have been completely new / different type approval submission documents. The V12VS was 7 speed ASM, so by taking that identical gearbox and saying for V12VSM instead of a robot pressing the clutch it's now a humans foot, that scenario likely piggy backs V12VS homologation, so not much legal and cert work to slide in 7 speed. But, if they had of reverted back to 6 speed for V12VSM (apart from annoying V12V owners) that would have meant completely new type approval because they couldn't claim similar like-for-like / limited deviation from original submission for the hardware change. There is one thing that stops me applying my usual logic to this gearbox discussion.
It is a matter that Bamford Mike has referred to in the past, and seems to involve some sort of regulation, bureaucracy, or type approval restriction.
Was the 7 speed dog leg manual in the V8VS used, because regulations prohibited a physically different gearbox? My understanding is that it is therefore probably an identical gearbox to the SS3 (just without the electronic system to change the gears).
A better gearbox to have used must have been the existing 6 speed manual (V8V and V12V), because 6 gears are quite adequate for most drivers of these cars, considering the torque produced by the powerful engines, but would that have not been allowed by whatever these (unknown to me) regulations are?
Are the V8V and V12VSM gearboxes both made by Graziano?
But in the case of gen 2 Vantage, its new type approval anyway so the old Graz 6 speed could still be a player.
However
It's just about OK now to finish rolling out the first gen Gaydon cars with the spin they are great because they are analog, but they are analog because they are old legacy and not analog because that's what they purposely seek out to make.
If the next gen cars are not E-diff minimum, or better, E-diff and a version of Ferrari F1-Trac, well, that's pants lack of tech isn't it? So I see no place for the current Graz 6 speed or dog leg 7 speed
BamfordMike said:
Jon39 said:
Mk2 Vantage with manual gearbox.
There is one thing that stops me applying my usual logic to this gearbox discussion.
It is a matter that Bamford Mike has referred to in the past, and seems to involve some sort of regulation, bureaucracy, or type approval restriction.
Was the 7 speed dog leg manual in the V8VS used, because regulations prohibited a physically different gearbox? My understanding is that it is therefore probably an identical gearbox to the SS3 (just without the electronic system to change the gears).
A better gearbox to have used must have been the existing 6 speed manual (V8V and V12V), because 6 gears are quite adequate for most drivers of these cars, considering the torque produced by the powerful engines, but would that have not been allowed by whatever these (unknown to me) regulations are?
Are the V8V and V12VSM gearboxes both made by Graziano?
The type approval comment iirc was that V12V (510BHP) and V12VS (565BHP) would have been completely new / different type approval submission documents. The V12VS was 7 speed ASM, so by taking that identical gearbox and saying for V12VSM instead of a robot pressing the clutch it's now a humans foot, that scenario likely piggy backs V12VS homologation, so not much legal and cert work to slide in 7 speed. But, if they had of reverted back to 6 speed for V12VSM (apart from annoying V12V owners) that would have meant completely new type approval because they couldn't claim similar like-for-like / limited deviation from original submission for the hardware change. There is one thing that stops me applying my usual logic to this gearbox discussion.
It is a matter that Bamford Mike has referred to in the past, and seems to involve some sort of regulation, bureaucracy, or type approval restriction.
Was the 7 speed dog leg manual in the V8VS used, because regulations prohibited a physically different gearbox? My understanding is that it is therefore probably an identical gearbox to the SS3 (just without the electronic system to change the gears).
A better gearbox to have used must have been the existing 6 speed manual (V8V and V12V), because 6 gears are quite adequate for most drivers of these cars, considering the torque produced by the powerful engines, but would that have not been allowed by whatever these (unknown to me) regulations are?
Are the V8V and V12VSM gearboxes both made by Graziano?
Understood, but of course they decided to go for a 7 speed initially on V12VS (flappy paddle) regardless of the thoughts raised on here by many about the amount of torque and power rendering 7 speeds un necessary. Whether that was genuinely for reasons of driver enjoyment/usability, or for better emissions, economy, acceleration figures, etc, presumably whatever led them to want a 7 speed flappy paddle would have also led them to wanting a 7 speed true manual, even if they had a choice (which as you rightly say they probably didn’t)
BamfordMike said:
But in the case of gen 2 Vantage, its new type approval anyway so the old Graz 6 speed could still be a player.
However
It's just about OK now to finish rolling out the first gen Gaydon cars with the spin they are great because they are analog, but they are analog because they are old legacy and not analog because that's what they purposely seek out to make.
If the next gen cars are not E-diff minimum, or better, E-diff and a version of Ferrari F1-Trac, well, that's pants lack of tech isn't it? So I see no place for the current Graz 6 speed or dog leg 7 speed
Agreed (in principle). Whether it will prove to be a good move or not, the fact remains the factory have clearly under AP decided they want to offer manuals. I'm not sure how much of that is about perceived benefits for being seen as 'an enthusiast's' manufacturer, how much is to gain sales from buyers of other brands who can no longer buy manuals because they simply aren't available, how much is to ensure those who have previously bought Astons because they are one of the few manufacturers to offer the option might otherwise buy elsewhere if that option is no longer available, how much is influenced by the reaction to 911R/GT3 and to a lesser extent V12VSM, etc but again, they have repeatedly said they will offer itHowever
It's just about OK now to finish rolling out the first gen Gaydon cars with the spin they are great because they are analog, but they are analog because they are old legacy and not analog because that's what they purposely seek out to make.
If the next gen cars are not E-diff minimum, or better, E-diff and a version of Ferrari F1-Trac, well, that's pants lack of tech isn't it? So I see no place for the current Graz 6 speed or dog leg 7 speed
So the only question is how and I fully agree with you none of the options look ideal, but they will have to plump for an option and I can't see it being a totally brand new gearbox ?
The funny thing is, even as a manual lover, I imagine that in new Vantage, even I would probably prefer the auto option as it may well be better suited. But that doesn't mean they won't offer manual. If they truly, genuinely offer it (i.e. not like Ferrari where it was theoretically available on 599 and even California, but in practice almost impossible to actually order) and it's a complete flop in sales terms, then I guess that gives them an out moving forward but they will still first have to plump for perhaps the best from a not ideal set of options, to give buyers a manual offering
Big Ry said:
Would the auto-box not just be a lift and shift (with a little fettling) from the AMG GT ? That's clearly a hugely capable bit of kit.
Don't get me wrong, I quite like the SS3 box (not keen on 1 and 2), however I'd be lying if I said the option of a fully auto or DC box in the Vantage wouldn't have a certain appeal.
As for the manual setup, I fail to see that Aston would have developed a 7 speed manual box to only be used in one car, of which globally there will be about 400. I can see Porsche doing something like that but then money isn't a constraint they have.
Might be wrong, but I think we'll see the 7-speed manual appear in the DB11 (perhaps DBS) and the V12 Vantage when that hopefully comes along.
Very keen to see the new Vantage though.
You've overlooked the 7 speed manual is an ASM3 box with the robotics removed and a manual shifter addedDon't get me wrong, I quite like the SS3 box (not keen on 1 and 2), however I'd be lying if I said the option of a fully auto or DC box in the Vantage wouldn't have a certain appeal.
As for the manual setup, I fail to see that Aston would have developed a 7 speed manual box to only be used in one car, of which globally there will be about 400. I can see Porsche doing something like that but then money isn't a constraint they have.
Might be wrong, but I think we'll see the 7-speed manual appear in the DB11 (perhaps DBS) and the V12 Vantage when that hopefully comes along.
Very keen to see the new Vantage though.
The more I think of it logically the more I think a DCT is the only choice!
Like it or not that's the way market forces are taking it. There's no guarantee that a manual box will suit the engine & handling dynamics of the new car & to mate it to something sub-optimal in order to placate nostalgic traditionalists, just doesn't make any business sense!
Like it or not that's the way market forces are taking it. There's no guarantee that a manual box will suit the engine & handling dynamics of the new car & to mate it to something sub-optimal in order to placate nostalgic traditionalists, just doesn't make any business sense!
jonby said:
Understood, but of course they decided to go for a 7 speed initially on V12VS (flappy paddle) regardless of the thoughts raised on here by many about the amount of torque and power rendering 7 speeds un necessary. Whether that was genuinely for reasons of driver enjoyment/usability, or for better emissions, economy, acceleration figures, etc, presumably whatever led them to want a 7 speed flappy paddle would have also led them to wanting a 7 speed true manual, even if they had a choice (which as you rightly say they probably didn’t)
Agreed (in principle). Whether it will prove to be a good move or not, the fact remains the factory have clearly under AP decided they want to offer manuals. I'm not sure how much of that is about perceived benefits for being seen as 'an enthusiast's' manufacturer, how much is to gain sales from buyers of other brands who can no longer buy manuals because they simply aren't available, how much is to ensure those who have previously bought Astons because they are one of the few manufacturers to offer the option might otherwise buy elsewhere if that option is no longer available, how much is influenced by the reaction to 911R/GT3 and to a lesser extent V12VSM, etc but again, they have repeatedly said they will offer it
So the only question is how and I fully agree with you none of the options look ideal, but they will have to plump for an option and I can't see it being a totally brand new gearbox ?
The funny thing is, even as a manual lover, I imagine that in new Vantage, even I would probably prefer the auto option as it may well be better suited. But that doesn't mean they won't offer manual. If they truly, genuinely offer it (i.e. not like Ferrari where it was theoretically available on 599 and even California, but in practice almost impossible to actually order) and it's a complete flop in sales terms, then I guess that gives them an out moving forward but they will still first have to plump for perhaps the best from a not ideal set of options, to give buyers a manual offering
I think they went 7 speed on V12VS because it creates a £halo and it was easy - the architecture from V8S was copy / paste (CAN comms / hill hold). Then going 7 speed manual was the only evolution possible without creating a behemoth of a project to certify 6 speed manual. But!! Had someone said let's do 7 speed manual with the dog leg pre 7 speed ASM, well, they would have been asked to get coat on way out I'm sure.Agreed (in principle). Whether it will prove to be a good move or not, the fact remains the factory have clearly under AP decided they want to offer manuals. I'm not sure how much of that is about perceived benefits for being seen as 'an enthusiast's' manufacturer, how much is to gain sales from buyers of other brands who can no longer buy manuals because they simply aren't available, how much is to ensure those who have previously bought Astons because they are one of the few manufacturers to offer the option might otherwise buy elsewhere if that option is no longer available, how much is influenced by the reaction to 911R/GT3 and to a lesser extent V12VSM, etc but again, they have repeatedly said they will offer it
So the only question is how and I fully agree with you none of the options look ideal, but they will have to plump for an option and I can't see it being a totally brand new gearbox ?
The funny thing is, even as a manual lover, I imagine that in new Vantage, even I would probably prefer the auto option as it may well be better suited. But that doesn't mean they won't offer manual. If they truly, genuinely offer it (i.e. not like Ferrari where it was theoretically available on 599 and even California, but in practice almost impossible to actually order) and it's a complete flop in sales terms, then I guess that gives them an out moving forward but they will still first have to plump for perhaps the best from a not ideal set of options, to give buyers a manual offering
OutofstepUK has done it, so have I - back-to-back drive a 580BHP V12VS 6 speed Vs 565BHP flappy paddle 7 speed - there is a clear winner, 7 speeds imho remain a gimmick and in reality is slower due to time taken to shift.
I do agree that if they get gen 2 Vantage right with Merc 520 BHP, DCT, E-diff and linked braking and suspension controls, who would want a manual when that will be so cracking. But I fear the £distraction <cough> DBX causes will mean Gen 2 Vantage doesn't have that tech, considering the Electrified Porsche range on the horizon, might be an issue - can't bang the analog drum forever!!
As someone driving frequently abroad and talking to AM-owners there I cannot see any demand for a manual outside the UK for the Gen-2-Vantage. In line with the financial situation of the company I would consider it highly unlikely that there would be a manual offered the next three years. I see the demand here among the piston heads - but I guess the quantity is not big enough?
If we look to the spy images on autosport and others then it becomes clear that Gen-2-Vantage will be a close derivative from DB11. I don´t care for the final design, but I am talking about the platform. Given this, an 8-speed ZF Auto should be the logical decision since it performs smoother than a DC-box and it is a core element of all new Aston cars. It is not heavier than a DC box, possibly cheaper, and follow on cost for dealer would be optimized.
What do you think about that logic?
If we look to the spy images on autosport and others then it becomes clear that Gen-2-Vantage will be a close derivative from DB11. I don´t care for the final design, but I am talking about the platform. Given this, an 8-speed ZF Auto should be the logical decision since it performs smoother than a DC-box and it is a core element of all new Aston cars. It is not heavier than a DC box, possibly cheaper, and follow on cost for dealer would be optimized.
What do you think about that logic?
BamfordMike said:
... But, if they had of reverted back to 6 speed for V12VSM (apart from annoying V12V owners) that would have meant completely new type approval because they couldn't claim similar like-for-like / limited deviation from original submission for the hardware change.
Thank you for your explanation, Mike.
If I happen to a pedestrian when a V12VSM drives past, how thankful I must feel knowing that I am safe, because it is not allowed to have a 6 speed gearbox.
Some of this type approval stuff seems nonsense to me.
Did it all begin in a place called Brussels by any chance?
Nbgring said:
As someone driving frequently abroad and talking to AM-owners there I cannot see any demand for a manual outside the UK for the Gen-2-Vantage. In line with the financial situation of the company I would consider it highly unlikely that there would be a manual offered the next three years. I see the demand here among the piston heads - but I guess the quantity is not big enough?
If we look to the spy images on autosport and others then it becomes clear that Gen-2-Vantage will be a close derivative from DB11. I don´t care for the final design, but I am talking about the platform. Given this, an 8-speed ZF Auto should be the logical decision since it performs smoother than a DC-box and it is a core element of all new Aston cars. It is not heavier than a DC box, possibly cheaper, and follow on cost for dealer would be optimized.
What do you think about that logic?
I've argued for a while that I suspect they will use the 8 speed zf as the flappy option os I agree with that, but they will certainly offer a manual option for some while IMOIf we look to the spy images on autosport and others then it becomes clear that Gen-2-Vantage will be a close derivative from DB11. I don´t care for the final design, but I am talking about the platform. Given this, an 8-speed ZF Auto should be the logical decision since it performs smoother than a DC-box and it is a core element of all new Aston cars. It is not heavier than a DC box, possibly cheaper, and follow on cost for dealer would be optimized.
What do you think about that logic?
Nbgring said:
As someone driving frequently abroad and talking to AM-owners there I cannot see any demand for a manual outside the UK for the Gen-2-Vantage. In line with the financial situation of the company I would consider it highly unlikely that there would be a manual offered the next three years. I see the demand here among the piston heads - but I guess the quantity is not big enough?
If we look to the spy images on autosport and others then it becomes clear that Gen-2-Vantage will be a close derivative from DB11. I don´t care for the final design, but I am talking about the platform. Given this, an 8-speed ZF Auto should be the logical decision since it performs smoother than a DC-box and it is a core element of all new Aston cars. It is not heavier than a DC box, possibly cheaper, and follow on cost for dealer would be optimized.
What do you think about that logic?
I heard the ZF 8HP was in the offering, which means if Vantage 2 is not DCT, means the powertrain is not a copy / paste of AMG GTS. Which means if Vantage 2 isn't DCT, says to me the door to AMG is perhaps not open and the engine is a Merc platform base engine, perhaps with a 'Merc power pack'. I would then guess the powertrain for <cough> DBX is the same 4L V8 with same auto trans. If we look to the spy images on autosport and others then it becomes clear that Gen-2-Vantage will be a close derivative from DB11. I don´t care for the final design, but I am talking about the platform. Given this, an 8-speed ZF Auto should be the logical decision since it performs smoother than a DC-box and it is a core element of all new Aston cars. It is not heavier than a DC box, possibly cheaper, and follow on cost for dealer would be optimized.
What do you think about that logic?
I looked up ZF 8HP, and learnt that it is an 8 speed torque converter transmission, used by many different vehicle manufacturers. It is fitted in Rolls Royces and pickup trucks.
I noticed one feature, whereby on sudden throttle opening it can go immediately from a high gear to a low gear, without needing to pass through every gear in turn.
BamfordMike said:
I heard the ZF 8HP was in the offering, which means if Vantage 2 is not DCT, means the powertrain is not a copy / paste of AMG GTS. Which means if Vantage 2 isn't DCT, says to me the door to AMG is perhaps not open and the engine is a Merc platform base engine, perhaps with a 'Merc power pack'. I would then guess the powertrain for <cough> DBX is the same 4L V8 with same auto trans.
I heard some month ago that the boys in Friedrichshafen are doing an application of the ZF 8HP and AM made the wheelbase of the new Vantage longer for fitting the gearbox. Problem with the DCT was, that Daimler wouldn't give AM all the details of the electronic communication with the gearbox and engine.Don't know if this is still actual.
telum01 said:
There are a LOT of us in the US that prefer a manual.
Indeed as Yank in the UK for 10 years - my perception is that there a much larger market for high performance manuals in the US than here. Its quite different from the low end market where manuals are common in UK and Europe but not in the US.Gassing Station | Aston Martin | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff