V12VR Sticking
Discussion
Jon39 said:
jonby said:
What premium when I sell mine do I ask for an expensive colour (ceramic), lots of unique Q work, lightweight seats, capristo rear cat delete and backbox, luggage and various other extras ? I can see arguments for very little and arguments for 10-20k premium.
Perhaps a carefully worded forum contribution Jonby, will produce a queue of eager buyers, for a very rare Aston, and on a sunny day too. Oh just a minute, you have already .......
Actually FWIW, my plan is to sell via my dealer in late June, ideally selling to rather than through (SOR). Lets see what happens to the market in the meantime - as is said above, I suspect the prices have hit the lowest they will as the cars for sale now have higher mileages than most of the V12VRs that have been up for sale previously, without much alteration to the price
Glad that you enjoyed my little joke, Jonby.
As you have owned an Aston Martin, which has had lower depreciation from new than is usual, you will probably want to repeat that with your next car.
Apart from the limited editions, I cannot think what current model might meet that criteria.
With your (I am assuming) close connections within AML, perhaps you are in line for a yet unannounced car.
Jon39 said:
Glad that you enjoyed my little joke, Jonby.
As you have owned an Aston Martin, which has had lower depreciation from new than is usual, you will probably want to repeat that with your next car.
Apart from the limited editions, I cannot think what current model might meet that criteria.
With your (I am assuming) close connections within AML, perhaps you are in line for a yet unannounced car.
I'm not commenting on the last bit :-) As you have owned an Aston Martin, which has had lower depreciation from new than is usual, you will probably want to repeat that with your next car.
Apart from the limited editions, I cannot think what current model might meet that criteria.
With your (I am assuming) close connections within AML, perhaps you are in line for a yet unannounced car.
FYI, I paid into the 170s with all the bits & bobs so whilst my depreciation is perhaps better than typical depreciation of a factory spec car bought new without discount, it's still very much there ! Unless the market rises more than I can dream of between now & june !
I lost my shirt on my 2 V8 Astons despite buying both very keenly. TBF, as with most people, it's made to look far worse because of the relative lack of depreciation that buyers of some other marques suffer. Compared to the mass produced marques, it's really not too bad. But compared to certain Ferraris, most Porsches and even Lambo now, it looks bad
jonby said:
FYI, I paid into the 170s with all the bits & bobs so whilst my depreciation is perhaps better than typical depreciation of a factory spec car bought new without discount, it's still very much there ! Unless the market rises more than I can dream of between now & june !
I lost my shirt on my 2 V8 Astons despite buying both very keenly. TBF, as with most people, it's made to look far worse because of the relative lack of depreciation that buyers of some other marques suffer. Compared to the mass produced marques, it's really not too bad. But compared to certain Ferraris, most Porsches and even Lambo now, it looks bad
You probably use your Vantage far more than I do, which makes a big difference to these purchase decisions.
I am fortunate to be able to buy new, but I cannot really justify doing so. I bought a 30 month old, hardly used 4·7, to be a keeper. It came from a main dealer so normal pricing, but with the usual initial three year depreciation of nearly 50% already wiped off the value, I was very pleased with my purchase. As a toy and keeper it is academic, but I had expected the value to continue going down (probably at the accountancy rate of 25% p.a.). Not so it turns out.
Many of these cars are being treasured and lightly used, so lots of good ones to choose from, and perhaps 30 to 40 months is the financially optimum age to buy.
I have heard about Ferrari and Porsche used values, but I expect a very detailed knowledge of models and spec. might be required to get that right. Anyway, the understated elegance of Aston Martins is just right for me.
Big Ry said:
So it looks like AM Edinburgh just increased the price of the V12VR they have (Hammerhead Silver) by five grand. Seems like an odd move as it hasn't shifted at £115k, so why increase it to £120k. I see the all black V12VR has now gone so perhaps they think there's about to be a rush.
Not only has the price gone up but the mileage quoted has increased by 2k miles since it was first advertised so the car may be on SOR and owner may have reset what he is looking to have returned to him. Only a theory but would explain the increase.Who knows where values are heading at the moment, its finger in the air time. It's going to be turbulent for a while yet IMO, new Vantage reveal and subsequent orders may or may not introduce more cars into the system. Certainly when the run-out V12VS 600 is announced/subsequently sold out there'll be some more roadsters on the market. If that one really really really is the 'last manual V12VR manual ever ever' then things may become a bit clearer in 12-18 months.
Gettoff said:
Who knows where values are heading at the moment, its finger in the air time. It's going to be turbulent for a while yet IMO, new Vantage reveal and subsequent orders may or may not introduce more cars into the system. Certainly when the run-out V12VS 600 is announced/subsequently sold out there'll be some more roadsters on the market. If that one really really really is the 'last manual V12VR manual ever ever' then things may become a bit clearer in 12-18 months.
If there were to be such a car, how many of them do you think might be UK RHD manual roadsters ? Very few I suspect which means very few older ones coming to market in returnThe reality is that there will be significantly less than 100 UK RHD manual V12 Vantage roadsters across all iterations, gearboxes (6 spd original & dogleg 7 speed), editions & power outputs before the all new AMG V8 replacement which means it will be an incredibly rare car (perhaps as few as 60 odd) so the only question surely is when the market price reflects that
I think residuals on run of the mill sportscars (and I do think that 90% of al Astons, Ferrraris and McLarens') fall within this category are driven by the general economic circumstances rather than how many cars there were buildt, so right now where GDP is growing slightly, interest rates are low and we haven't felt the impact of Brexit, a huge number of new buyers have entered into this market for say 100k+ cars. However, this market will fall away dramatically if the economy turns and the interest rate rises. Only the really spcial cars will be able to withstand such a correction and 99% of the market will fall dramatically. Let's hope the party goes on for a while but I would never regard buying a volume produced sports car (even if there are only 101 of a special edition as a safe investment going forward. Imagine what will happen to the market if towns/cities around the country start imposing strict emission bans and you can't even use these cars. Buy cars to drive and always pay cash ! If they turn our to be a good investment consider yourself lucky.
jonby said:
If there were to be such a car, how many of them do you think might be UK RHD manual roadsters ? Very few I suspect which means very few older ones coming to market in return
"If" ? Yeh ok.You're right though, it will likely be only a dozen or so at a guess, but my point was the uncertainty it brings to the market rather than the actual numbers. Once new Vantage is in full swing then everyone will know there will be no more, but until then, given AM's form for 'another raid of the warehouse' special, some doubt will remain. On the last point I don't blame them either, given their financial position they need to get every last drop out of the current cars, but as an owner and potential new owner it can frustrate a little.
Totally understand where you are coming from Jeff and that is how I felt when I heard about the new 7 speed car. If this new 600 model ever turns up I guess we will have to listen very carefully to what AML say and then take a view as to whether they have anything left up their sleeves. I was really disappointed that the car I have will not have the final incarnation of the manual V12 but take some solice that there are less than 35 of them in the UK, with not that many in the original owners hands.
I agree with Christian that the cars are to be driven first and if happenings in the world make them valuable, sought after cars then that is a different issue with different problems. I run the AMOC area down in the South West and over the 7 years I have been doing it fewer and fewer of the Newport Pagnell cars come out to play with our support coming from mainly Gaydon cars.
I agree with Christian that the cars are to be driven first and if happenings in the world make them valuable, sought after cars then that is a different issue with different problems. I run the AMOC area down in the South West and over the 7 years I have been doing it fewer and fewer of the Newport Pagnell cars come out to play with our support coming from mainly Gaydon cars.
Gettoff said:
jonby said:
If there were to be such a car, how many of them do you think might be UK RHD manual roadsters ? Very few I suspect which means very few older ones coming to market in return
"If" ? Yeh ok.You're right though, it will likely be only a dozen or so at a guess, but my point was the uncertainty it brings to the market rather than the actual numbers. Once new Vantage is in full swing then everyone will know there will be no more, but until then, given AM's form for 'another raid of the warehouse' special, some doubt will remain. On the last point I don't blame them either, given their financial position they need to get every last drop out of the current cars, but as an owner and potential new owner it can frustrate a little.
I'd guess if there is a run out model though, the number of RHD manual roadsters will be even less than 12 which means relatively few older manual roadster coming to market from those changing up and ultimately, total number available at any one time is still a big contributing factor to pricing
hornbaek said:
I think residuals on run of the mill sportscars (and I do think that 90% of al Astons, Ferrraris and McLarens') fall within this category are driven by the general economic circumstances rather than how many cars there were buildt, so right now where GDP is growing slightly, interest rates are low and we haven't felt the impact of Brexit, a huge number of new buyers have entered into this market for say 100k+ cars. However, this market will fall away dramatically if the economy turns and the interest rate rises. Only the really spcial cars will be able to withstand such a correction and 99% of the market will fall dramatically. Let's hope the party goes on for a while but I would never regard buying a volume produced sports car (even if there are only 101 of a special edition as a safe investment going forward. Imagine what will happen to the market if towns/cities around the country start imposing strict emission bans and you can't even use these cars. Buy cars to drive and always pay cash ! If they turn our to be a good investment consider yourself lucky.
^^^^^this^^^^^AMDBSVNick said:
As several of us know the run out 600 car is going to happen.
The irony is with all this talk of "last of normally aspirated" and "manual" my guess is most will be ordered as V12VSMR's
I wonder what the dealers will advise as to the most desirable going forward
That's not irony is it ?The irony is with all this talk of "last of normally aspirated" and "manual" my guess is most will be ordered as V12VSMR's
I wonder what the dealers will advise as to the most desirable going forward
Although I'm saying nothing about knowing about any any run out edition Nick :-)
But if there were to be one and if it were to be limited to 100 cars globally as other seem to be suggesting on various threads here in the last few weeks, past limited run numbers mean it's likely no more than one third would be for the UK and of those, you have to assume a fair few more coupes would be ordered than roadsters.
I suspect manual would outweigh flappy in the current climate, but regardless, each derivative would be so rare in it's own right and that's before you factor in colours, I don't think there would be a single 'most desirable spec'.
AMDBSVNick said:
hornbaek said:
I think residuals on run of the mill sportscars (and I do think that 90% of al Astons, Ferrraris and McLarens') fall within this category are driven by the general economic circumstances rather than how many cars there were buildt, so right now where GDP is growing slightly, interest rates are low and we haven't felt the impact of Brexit, a huge number of new buyers have entered into this market for say 100k+ cars. However, this market will fall away dramatically if the economy turns and the interest rate rises. Only the really spcial cars will be able to withstand such a correction and 99% of the market will fall dramatically. Let's hope the party goes on for a while but I would never regard buying a volume produced sports car (even if there are only 101 of a special edition as a safe investment going forward. Imagine what will happen to the market if towns/cities around the country start imposing strict emission bans and you can't even use these cars. Buy cars to drive and always pay cash ! If they turn our to be a good investment consider yourself lucky.
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