Discussion
I have DS2500 on my car.
They had noticeably less initial bite than the standard road pads, but once you apply a little pressure, there's much more stopping power available. You can really stand on the pedal and the braking increases where as my old pads didn't seem to do much after the initial bite.
They had noticeably less initial bite than the standard road pads, but once you apply a little pressure, there's much more stopping power available. You can really stand on the pedal and the braking increases where as my old pads didn't seem to do much after the initial bite.
You could check out this post or two. Most of the known options are mentioned :-) ;
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=13...
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=15...
Slainte!
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=13...
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=15...
Slainte!
Just to add my experience; many people really are touting the Ferodo 2500. They may be a different compound here in North America (health laws?) - but they are the worst pads I've ever had on a Subaru STi. Yes, it isn't a caterham, so some aspects won't apply as strongly, but over-all friction and bite will be similar.
To be fair, Ferodo's aren't going to catch fire and kill you, but they are far from what the Internet claims, especially for a big car. Maybe 20 yrs ago...
They have a lower coefficient of friction than stock Brembo pads, and melt all over the rotors on a track - and also pass more heat than some others into the calipers.
The heat issue is probably not going to be a thing for a lighter caterham - though the rotors are tiny, so they can get hot.
Even in just plain road and autocross use, the Ferodo 2500 were a downgrade from stock Brembo. They're even worse than Hawk HPS street pads. (The odd thing is, Brembo pads are supposedly made by Ferodo, and is similar to a 2500 - but not close to how a 2500 behaves). The Ferodo lost me a lot of time in autocrosses.
A caterham with its standard non-powered brakes benefits from higher coefficients of friction, and fairly high initial bite. You can see that as a note for race pads in cars without power assisted steering, that higher bites are recommended. If you're running really skinny tires, it may be overkill, but most of us run pretty sticky rubber on a caterham.
If you want pads that can do a track, and help you stop with less effort, then the Pagid RS-14 are magnitudes beyond what a Ferodo 2500 can do, and are even far better, dead cold.
As just a street pad, the RS-14 is still better than a Ferodo, and better than stock brembo pads, even in wet sleet days (I live part way up a mountain in Canada). They will make a "chuckle" noise dead cold and slightly warm on some cars for road use. That may be a deal killer.
I'm just mentioning this because I bought into the old info/hype re. Ferodo 2500 as the best street/track pad, and others have done the same in my car club out here, and we've all been rather disappointed. Chucked 'em well before they were done. Modern compound pads are better and many can do both street and track, especially for a Caterham. The ceramic compounds have a wide heat range.
Other pads I've used - though not all on a Caterham;
Brembo Stock (ferodo/Brembo M1100??? something like that)
Hawk HPS
Axxis Metalmaster
Ferodo 2500
Pagid RS-14
Performance Friction PF01
EBC Red
Mintex 1142(?) (obsolete) - Like wet wood, lol
I also have a set of Ferodo DSN1.11 for the caterham to experiment with. Haven't tried them yet.
I have some Carbotech XP10 and XP8 (Front/rear) on order for the Subie to try out. Supposedly a bit easier on rotors. A carbotech AX6 or XP8 may be a great choice for a Caterham. The AX6 is autocross pad, so high initial bite, and works cold, XP8 is their basic low temp race pad. Once I see what these are like, I may try them in the caterham.
Others have suggested Carbonne Laraine CL6 pads, over here they're about $800 for a Caterham so I haven't tried them, lol. In England they are supposed to be a reasonable price. If they don't squeal, work cold as claimed, and do have the flat torque curve at about 0.5 Mu, then they'd be pretty nice.
I know you all love to hate EBC pads, but I believe they are far better than a few years ago in compound design and quality. The EBC yellows in the soft yellow, may be a good experiment, and are inexpensive to try. Appropriate Mu, decent heat resistance, and supposedly good enough cold bite. *shrug*
Of course, the classic answer is Mintex 1144 up front, and stock in rear, or stock blue dot in rear. This may be getting a bit long in the tooth, but it works for a lot of people. I think there may be a better modern pad combo out there.
Right now I'm running PF01 up front, and EBC red in back. Seems balanced well enough, but I could use a bit more cold bite up front. This is with AP racing master cylinder and AP 4 piston brakes and vented front rotors.
To be fair, Ferodo's aren't going to catch fire and kill you, but they are far from what the Internet claims, especially for a big car. Maybe 20 yrs ago...
They have a lower coefficient of friction than stock Brembo pads, and melt all over the rotors on a track - and also pass more heat than some others into the calipers.
The heat issue is probably not going to be a thing for a lighter caterham - though the rotors are tiny, so they can get hot.
Even in just plain road and autocross use, the Ferodo 2500 were a downgrade from stock Brembo. They're even worse than Hawk HPS street pads. (The odd thing is, Brembo pads are supposedly made by Ferodo, and is similar to a 2500 - but not close to how a 2500 behaves). The Ferodo lost me a lot of time in autocrosses.
A caterham with its standard non-powered brakes benefits from higher coefficients of friction, and fairly high initial bite. You can see that as a note for race pads in cars without power assisted steering, that higher bites are recommended. If you're running really skinny tires, it may be overkill, but most of us run pretty sticky rubber on a caterham.
If you want pads that can do a track, and help you stop with less effort, then the Pagid RS-14 are magnitudes beyond what a Ferodo 2500 can do, and are even far better, dead cold.
As just a street pad, the RS-14 is still better than a Ferodo, and better than stock brembo pads, even in wet sleet days (I live part way up a mountain in Canada). They will make a "chuckle" noise dead cold and slightly warm on some cars for road use. That may be a deal killer.
I'm just mentioning this because I bought into the old info/hype re. Ferodo 2500 as the best street/track pad, and others have done the same in my car club out here, and we've all been rather disappointed. Chucked 'em well before they were done. Modern compound pads are better and many can do both street and track, especially for a Caterham. The ceramic compounds have a wide heat range.
Other pads I've used - though not all on a Caterham;
Brembo Stock (ferodo/Brembo M1100??? something like that)
Hawk HPS
Axxis Metalmaster
Ferodo 2500
Pagid RS-14
Performance Friction PF01
EBC Red
Mintex 1142(?) (obsolete) - Like wet wood, lol
I also have a set of Ferodo DSN1.11 for the caterham to experiment with. Haven't tried them yet.
I have some Carbotech XP10 and XP8 (Front/rear) on order for the Subie to try out. Supposedly a bit easier on rotors. A carbotech AX6 or XP8 may be a great choice for a Caterham. The AX6 is autocross pad, so high initial bite, and works cold, XP8 is their basic low temp race pad. Once I see what these are like, I may try them in the caterham.
Others have suggested Carbonne Laraine CL6 pads, over here they're about $800 for a Caterham so I haven't tried them, lol. In England they are supposed to be a reasonable price. If they don't squeal, work cold as claimed, and do have the flat torque curve at about 0.5 Mu, then they'd be pretty nice.
I know you all love to hate EBC pads, but I believe they are far better than a few years ago in compound design and quality. The EBC yellows in the soft yellow, may be a good experiment, and are inexpensive to try. Appropriate Mu, decent heat resistance, and supposedly good enough cold bite. *shrug*
Of course, the classic answer is Mintex 1144 up front, and stock in rear, or stock blue dot in rear. This may be getting a bit long in the tooth, but it works for a lot of people. I think there may be a better modern pad combo out there.
Right now I'm running PF01 up front, and EBC red in back. Seems balanced well enough, but I could use a bit more cold bite up front. This is with AP racing master cylinder and AP 4 piston brakes and vented front rotors.
shrink1061 said:
Agreed, fade shouldn't be happening on the road.
Heck I don't even get fade on a track day after 10 laps, at which point I'm usualy more tired than the car is!
Check your fluid as well, if its been previously overheated, it'll be all but useless now.
Another vote for this from me. I never had fade on track, even with standard pads, let alone on the road. Heck I don't even get fade on a track day after 10 laps, at which point I'm usualy more tired than the car is!
Check your fluid as well, if its been previously overheated, it'll be all but useless now.
There is a lot of personal preference that goes into deciding the ideal brake pads.
Some people like the over-servo'd grabby feel that have tons of initial bite, whereas others may like the more progressive pad that needs more effort through the pedal to get the same response. Both approaches work, but where you sit on this spectrum will depend on what you're used to and your driving style.
All the recommendations here (Pagid, Mintex, Ferodo) sit at different points on this scale. All of them will work great in a Caterham and you wont get anywhere near overheating any of them. Decide what feel you're looking for and do your research. When getting recommendations always consider the preferences of the person giving the recommendation.
Here are my thoughts on some pads.
Pagid RS14: Good road pad. Works well from cold. Loads of initial bite which is reassuring on the road. I find them too grabby for track.
Ferodo DS2500: Good track pad. Needs a firmer pedal application but the stopping power is there when you do so. Has a more progressive feel which I find better for modulation. Needs a corner or two before they're up to temperature so needs consideration on the road.
Also, I would agree with others that you shouldn't be overheating on backroads. That suggests that you may have something else that needs looking at other than pads.
Some people like the over-servo'd grabby feel that have tons of initial bite, whereas others may like the more progressive pad that needs more effort through the pedal to get the same response. Both approaches work, but where you sit on this spectrum will depend on what you're used to and your driving style.
All the recommendations here (Pagid, Mintex, Ferodo) sit at different points on this scale. All of them will work great in a Caterham and you wont get anywhere near overheating any of them. Decide what feel you're looking for and do your research. When getting recommendations always consider the preferences of the person giving the recommendation.
Here are my thoughts on some pads.
Pagid RS14: Good road pad. Works well from cold. Loads of initial bite which is reassuring on the road. I find them too grabby for track.
Ferodo DS2500: Good track pad. Needs a firmer pedal application but the stopping power is there when you do so. Has a more progressive feel which I find better for modulation. Needs a corner or two before they're up to temperature so needs consideration on the road.
Also, I would agree with others that you shouldn't be overheating on backroads. That suggests that you may have something else that needs looking at other than pads.
mharris said:
Ferodo DS2500: Good track pad. Needs a firmer pedal application but the stopping power is there when you do so. Has a more progressive feel which I find better for modulation. Needs a corner or two before they're up to temperature so needs consideration on the road.
Also, I would agree with others that you shouldn't be overheating on backroads. That suggests that you may have something else that needs looking at other than pads.
Agree with all of this - I've got DS2500 on the front and DS3000 on the rear (always feel that Caterhams are under-braked to the rear so need a bit more bite). Never had a hint of fade...ever, even after 25+ laps of knockhill (which tests any brake system to the limit)Also, I would agree with others that you shouldn't be overheating on backroads. That suggests that you may have something else that needs looking at other than pads.
Underbraked at the rear? Really? You are defo in the minority as most, including me, have the opposite problem. Indeed I am in the process of trying to address this issue on mine at the moment swapping the standard pads for the tried and tested (supposedly) combination of Mintex 1144 MGB535 pads at the front and the Caterham Blue dot (although they no longer have a blue dot ironically) in the rear.
As has been said already, the upgraded blue dot rears are the 507 CC pads mentioned earlier and are only about £15 -£20 from a parts dealer.
Also agree with the other comments. Either your brake fluid is goosed or you've got another issue that's causing fade. I can do over an hour of consecutive laps with the standard setup and get no fade at all during the stint so something is up. Try changing the fluid first, easy to do yourself at home if you lookup a guide on how to do it.
As has been said already, the upgraded blue dot rears are the 507 CC pads mentioned earlier and are only about £15 -£20 from a parts dealer.
Also agree with the other comments. Either your brake fluid is goosed or you've got another issue that's causing fade. I can do over an hour of consecutive laps with the standard setup and get no fade at all during the stint so something is up. Try changing the fluid first, easy to do yourself at home if you lookup a guide on how to do it.
tomwoodis said:
Underbraked at the rear? Really? You are defo in the minority as most, including me, have the opposite problem.
Indeed, hence every de-dion axle car in the 100+ strong race club I compete in runs racey F6Rs / RS-14s in the front and comparatively mild 1144s in the rear. Even with this setup I default to one click forward on brake bias. HustleRussell said:
Indeed, hence every de-dion axle car in the 100+ strong race club I compete in runs racey F6Rs / RS-14s in the front and comparatively mild 1144s in the rear. Even with this setup I default to one click forward on brake bias.
You have adjustible brake bias, do you also have the racing brake upgrade at the back? I have the standard caterham single master cylinder with no adjustment. I found with the big APs up front I wanted to throw the bias to the back a bit, but can't - so changed the compound instead.Order66 said:
You have adjustible brake bias, do you also have the racing brake upgrade at the back? I have the standard caterham single master cylinder with no adjustment. I found with the big APs up front I wanted to throw the bias to the back a bit, but can't - so changed the compound instead.
tomwoodis said:
Ah OK, with the upgraded AP calipers I can understand where you're coming from. In my case, I've got the standard MC and also the standard (non AP) callipers front and rear which are giving me the rear bias issues.
makes much more sense if you're running big brakes up front. I've got standard brakes (same as the OP I expect) although I do have the AP 13/16" master cylinder and the brake bias lever. HustleRussell said:
makes much more sense if you're running big brakes up front. I've got standard brakes (same as the OP I expect) although I do have the AP 13/16" master cylinder and the brake bias lever. Both my caterhams have been big power, had the APs up front and standard cossie calipers at the rear and both have felt underbraked at the rear. When I get a more agressive compound on the rear I can definitely pull up harder (supported by the data logger). I also run big fat slicks on the rear which can take a lot stronger braking before locking (I've never locked the rears).
mpbcs said:
I have a similar problem in that I'm eating rear pads on my 620s. 2 Months old and 1200 miles in with a couple of hard track days I have gone through rear pads but fronts are ok. Any suggestions on a good pad combo front and rear?
My 620R also eats the rears (compared to the fronts). It definitely works them hard. That does seem like very short life for 2 track days. For comparison I did 3 days at Spa last month and that used about 50% of a set of DS3000s.Gassing Station | Caterham | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff