Discussion
wtdoom said:
The first line about making our v12s look both beautiful and dated all in one go is probably the line that resonates with me more than any other on this thread , spot on
I find it funny that people are saying it makes the old one look dated. No it's looked dated for years. A DB5 also looks dated, doesn't mean it doesn't look amazing. We're talking about a car that the design was unveiled in 2003! 360 Modena, 996 Porsche, Pre Gallardo (maybe it was unveiled before? but launched in 04?).
Personally I'm not sold on the new one yet, but will drive one and a few variations down the line I'm sure there will be one that suits me to go alongside my V12V and V12VRS.
I'm picking my V12VRS up tomorrow and feel I'm basically buying a classic car with a new car warranty. Couldn't be happier at the prospect. Well, the actually buying process I could be a lot happier, but that's not for this thread...
I love the Aston brand and business, what they have achieved over the past few years is fantastic and it's great that they are pushing the brand to new levels of success. I don't want to be too negative on the new Vantage, I really liked the design language of the DB10 and it's great to see most of that has made it to the vantage, I think the rear of the car is particularly good.
My only concern is that they've gone a little too aggressive straight out of the box, particularly at the front and lost some gracefulness that I personally love. I agree that a lot of owners moaned about change/non change and it's a difficult line to judge but I can't see why Aston isn't offering a base car with softer looks for the Aston buyer that doesn't like change and something a bit more radical for those who just want one because it's fresh and different. I get that they want to make a statement with the new car but they are maybe forgetting some of their audience. Porsche don't do radical makeovers and you find owners stick with the brand even though everyone on the outside slates their design as lazy and they know a thing or two on how to sell cars.
In the words of Marek Reichman, "we create sculptures, they are living pieces of art and design". I guess the question is does the new Vantage abide by that brand principle? As with all design it's totally subjective. Let's wait until we see the finished car in the flesh in a few different colours and maybe I'll change my mind
Finally do we know who is the target audience for the Vantage? What age, nationality etc?
My only concern is that they've gone a little too aggressive straight out of the box, particularly at the front and lost some gracefulness that I personally love. I agree that a lot of owners moaned about change/non change and it's a difficult line to judge but I can't see why Aston isn't offering a base car with softer looks for the Aston buyer that doesn't like change and something a bit more radical for those who just want one because it's fresh and different. I get that they want to make a statement with the new car but they are maybe forgetting some of their audience. Porsche don't do radical makeovers and you find owners stick with the brand even though everyone on the outside slates their design as lazy and they know a thing or two on how to sell cars.
In the words of Marek Reichman, "we create sculptures, they are living pieces of art and design". I guess the question is does the new Vantage abide by that brand principle? As with all design it's totally subjective. Let's wait until we see the finished car in the flesh in a few different colours and maybe I'll change my mind
Finally do we know who is the target audience for the Vantage? What age, nationality etc?
onlogbook.com said:
I love the new vantage, but then I’ve always been good at seeing and appreciating new design fairly quickly. For others it needs to settle in - for many in this forum, that settling in period is about 10 years (at a guess).
This ain’t an aston fan forum. This is an aston bashing forum for people who claim to love the brand but go out of their way denigrate everything the company does.
Well done to the aston team. The new era of cars are gorgeous and to me are Aston Martin through and through. I will have a new aston again soo.
Sorry, but I think that's an overly harsh thing to say... Hardly anyone here is 'bashing' Aston Martin - it's just that the brand that won many of us over thanks to the 'understated elegance' of its cars has been seen to move away from that design language with new launches of late and that has created some disquiet.This ain’t an aston fan forum. This is an aston bashing forum for people who claim to love the brand but go out of their way denigrate everything the company does.
Well done to the aston team. The new era of cars are gorgeous and to me are Aston Martin through and through. I will have a new aston again soo.
As a designer by trade, I can appreciate the harsh, aggressive design of the new Vantage as much as I can appreciate the elegant, flowing design of the old version. However, only one of these cars would I feel comfortable driving around in and owning. A move into this new design language is a perfectly sound and no doubt well considered business decision by the management and I don't recall anyone here mentioning that they want AM to fail because of it. But in doing so, it is potentially leaving a proportion of its old/existing customer base behind and it's not unreasonable to expect some emotive discussion as a result.
I like a lot of the new design cues in the new model - but then that's not a huge surprise as I very much liked the DB10 when I first saw that. The front grille however is a real deal-breaker for me and, being so dominant, it's not something you can easily disregard. Had the new Vantage been launched with a more traditional front grille (and the more aggressive track style grille as an option), then I doubt anyone here would be complaining or spending hours in photoshop coming up with less divisive alternatives.
I find it telling that for years, people have been pointing out how the near-perfect front end design of the old Vantage is compromised slightly by the addition of the front number plate, yet on the new Vantage, even those who claim to love the design are saying how it will look better with the number plate attached.
jonby said:
Old vantage looks both beautiful AND incredibly dated next to the new one.
- but they sold it with a plate on the front saying, 'Timeless'. 
I know the bodywork of the GTE would be too low for roads, but the exterior body design differences, seem to produce a more rounded and attractive, overall shape.
Does anyone agree ?
Jon39 said:
- but they sold it with a plate on the front saying, 'Timeless'. I know the bodywork of the GTE would be too low for roads, but the exterior body design differences, seem to produce a more rounded and attractive, overall shape.
Does anyone agree ?
blade runner said:
Sorry, but I think that's an overly harsh thing to say... Hardly anyone here is 'bashing' Aston Martin - it's just that the brand that won many of us over thanks to the 'understated elegance' of its cars has been seen to move away from that design language with new launches of late and that has created some disquiet.
As a designer by trade, I can appreciate the harsh, aggressive design of the new Vantage as much as I can appreciate the elegant, flowing design of the old version. However, only one of these cars would I feel comfortable driving around in and owning. A move into this new design language is a perfectly sound and no doubt well considered business decision by the management and I don't recall anyone here mentioning that they want AM to fail because of it. But in doing so, it is potentially leaving a proportion of its old/existing customer base behind and it's not unreasonable to expect some emotive discussion as a result.
I like a lot of the new design cues in the new model - but then that's not a huge surprise as I very much liked the DB10 when I first saw that. The front grille however is a real deal-breaker for me and, being so dominant, it's not something you can easily disregard. Had the new Vantage been launched with a more traditional front grille (and the more aggressive track style grille as an option), then I doubt anyone here would be complaining or spending hours in photoshop coming up with less divisive alternatives.
I find it telling that for years, people have been pointing out how the near-perfect front end design of the old Vantage is compromised slightly by the addition of the front number plate, yet on the new Vantage, even those who claim to love the design are saying how it will look better with the number plate attached.
+ 1As a designer by trade, I can appreciate the harsh, aggressive design of the new Vantage as much as I can appreciate the elegant, flowing design of the old version. However, only one of these cars would I feel comfortable driving around in and owning. A move into this new design language is a perfectly sound and no doubt well considered business decision by the management and I don't recall anyone here mentioning that they want AM to fail because of it. But in doing so, it is potentially leaving a proportion of its old/existing customer base behind and it's not unreasonable to expect some emotive discussion as a result.
I like a lot of the new design cues in the new model - but then that's not a huge surprise as I very much liked the DB10 when I first saw that. The front grille however is a real deal-breaker for me and, being so dominant, it's not something you can easily disregard. Had the new Vantage been launched with a more traditional front grille (and the more aggressive track style grille as an option), then I doubt anyone here would be complaining or spending hours in photoshop coming up with less divisive alternatives.
I find it telling that for years, people have been pointing out how the near-perfect front end design of the old Vantage is compromised slightly by the addition of the front number plate, yet on the new Vantage, even those who claim to love the design are saying how it will look better with the number plate attached.
I am sure that they will appeal to new markets/customers but they left an 'unserved audience' behind which will start looking elsewhere for elegance and style combined with power... . Instead of 'power, beauty and soul' , we now have 'power and presence'...
F
pbe624 said:
+ 1
I am sure that they will appeal to new markets/customers but they left an 'unserved audience' behind which will start looking elsewhere for elegance and style combined with power... . Instead of 'power, beauty and soul' , we now have 'power and presence'...
F
Where to look for elegance? Ferrari Portofino has it in spades but is much more expensive, F Type not as exclusive, AMG GT and Macs not elegant, Porsche just Porsche! Audi R8? Perhaps the only answer is the DB11, in which case Aston have a larger proportion of the market covered.I am sure that they will appeal to new markets/customers but they left an 'unserved audience' behind which will start looking elsewhere for elegance and style combined with power... . Instead of 'power, beauty and soul' , we now have 'power and presence'...
F
I am with the group for whom the grill area will take quite a lot of getting used to.
RobDown said:
There is always the DB11 V8 for those who liked the old design language more but who want a new car
I’ve not driven one but it sounds like, in character it’s perhaps closer to old Vantage than old DB9 (and in the same price ballpark as new Vantage too)
Posts crossed overI’ve not driven one but it sounds like, in character it’s perhaps closer to old Vantage than old DB9 (and in the same price ballpark as new Vantage too)
Criticising one specific aesthetic isn't marque bashing - especially as many of us are long term, card carrying, Aston-geek fan boys!
That yadda yadda bcu camera in face 20 yr old US Vlogger clip was interesting - I figure he came at it very objectively and totally cold. Which seemed very positive...
Until I see it in the flesh on Thursday at Bristol I think we should all:
That yadda yadda bcu camera in face 20 yr old US Vlogger clip was interesting - I figure he came at it very objectively and totally cold. Which seemed very positive...
Until I see it in the flesh on Thursday at Bristol I think we should all:
[quote=waremark]
Where to look for elegance? Ferrari Portofino has it in spades but is much more expensive, F Type not as exclusive, AMG GT and Macs not elegant, Porsche just Porsche! Audi R8? Perhaps the only answer is the DB11, in which case Aston have a larger proportion of the market covered.
I agree.
It is interesting that Sergio Marchionne specifically referred to older more traditional enthusiasts when talking about the styling of the Portofino.He was worried that Ferrari were in danger of losing some of their best customers if the design language became too aggressive across the range.Ferrari are some years ahead of AM in terms of design and development.
It seems to me with new Vantage and DB11 (especially given the V8 option and pricing) AM have a product for most potential customers.
Where to look for elegance? Ferrari Portofino has it in spades but is much more expensive, F Type not as exclusive, AMG GT and Macs not elegant, Porsche just Porsche! Audi R8? Perhaps the only answer is the DB11, in which case Aston have a larger proportion of the market covered.
I agree.
It is interesting that Sergio Marchionne specifically referred to older more traditional enthusiasts when talking about the styling of the Portofino.He was worried that Ferrari were in danger of losing some of their best customers if the design language became too aggressive across the range.Ferrari are some years ahead of AM in terms of design and development.
It seems to me with new Vantage and DB11 (especially given the V8 option and pricing) AM have a product for most potential customers.
Ken Figenus said:
That yadda yadda bcu camera in face 20 yr old US Vlogger clip was interesting - I figure he came at it very objectively and totally cold. Which seemed very positive...
This could probably be a question, but I just wonder whether people making these car review videos, are just trying to build a YouTube business for themselves. If so, saying anything controversial will probably hinder the ambition.
The local dealer has cooperated with the film making (did you spot the salesman at his desk, unsure what type of acting to do), and such assistance will be needed again in the future. It seemed rather too obvious, that it was all compliments about everything.
How many viewings are needed, to receive a worthwhile income?
Clearly my V12S and GT8 now look rather different to the marmite new one but having seen it , sat in it and read through countless posts thought would add my humble opinion.
I have thought about swopping the V12 but only because that's coming up 3 years old and there is a limit to how many cars I want.
Whether it's " worth " the money to change is also subjective - irrespective of whether u can afford to or not.
I quite like the looks - don't mind the mesh grill ( there are 3 colour options ) , it looks very now , buttons inside felt good to use but crammed in , hate the Aston writing on the rear ( geared to the Asian market a la Porsche ) but you would take that off , don't like the perforated side gill or rear but that can be changed for carbon or body coloured.
Don't particularly love any of the wheels but can look beyond those.
Body colour will make the difference beyond a doubt and ignoring some of the initial designer specs ( not launch editions per se ) isn't a bad idea either.
It will be relatively expensive - £140k without blinking , £150k without really trying but then gets a bit silly beyond probably £160k.
It was designed to steal sales from the obvious other Marques and it will.
Until I've driven it ( or even just started it ) I cannot say I would swop though.
Whatever else anyone says though it's unmistakably an Aston , in the flesh I cannot think of anything else that would cause u to stand sill and driving it versus a similar priced Porsche etc i am sure you will doubt that you've bought the wrong car.
But just my worthless tuppence.
I have thought about swopping the V12 but only because that's coming up 3 years old and there is a limit to how many cars I want.
Whether it's " worth " the money to change is also subjective - irrespective of whether u can afford to or not.
I quite like the looks - don't mind the mesh grill ( there are 3 colour options ) , it looks very now , buttons inside felt good to use but crammed in , hate the Aston writing on the rear ( geared to the Asian market a la Porsche ) but you would take that off , don't like the perforated side gill or rear but that can be changed for carbon or body coloured.
Don't particularly love any of the wheels but can look beyond those.
Body colour will make the difference beyond a doubt and ignoring some of the initial designer specs ( not launch editions per se ) isn't a bad idea either.
It will be relatively expensive - £140k without blinking , £150k without really trying but then gets a bit silly beyond probably £160k.
It was designed to steal sales from the obvious other Marques and it will.
Until I've driven it ( or even just started it ) I cannot say I would swop though.
Whatever else anyone says though it's unmistakably an Aston , in the flesh I cannot think of anything else that would cause u to stand sill and driving it versus a similar priced Porsche etc i am sure you will doubt that you've bought the wrong car.
But just my worthless tuppence.
Jon39 said:
This could probably be a question, but I just wonder whether people making these car review videos, are just trying to build a YouTube business for themselves. If so, saying anything controversial will probably hinder the ambition.
The local dealer has cooperated with the film making (did you spot the salesman at his desk, unsure what type of acting to do), and such assistance will be needed again in the future. It seemed rather too obvious, that it was all compliments about everything.
How many viewings are needed, to receive a worthwhile income?
Edited by Ken Figenus on Friday 24th November 17:43
waremark said:
Where to look for elegance?
Some possible options if they ever come out might be the Bentley EXP10 or the Maserati Alfieri but they might be more GT than sports car.Interesting that all these cars have the massive grills but I do think the Aston mesh looks somewhat more cheap/halfords in it's finish effect.
There’s no question the new Vantage looks more aggressive and is far more modern than the current, but I have mine because I like the elegant looks, the V12 that both purrs and roars, and the manual shifter. Let’s hope the new one fun is at least as engaging to drive, and doesn’t just go for the numbers.
And btw looking less dated doesn’t mean you need aggressive spoilers and diffusers
And btw looking less dated doesn’t mean you need aggressive spoilers and diffusers
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