New Vantage?

[hornbaek]

waremark said:

Don’t agree. Most Vantage buyers bought the car for the emotion of it, in which looks played a large part This is the first mainstream Aston in several decades which hasn't been great looking right from the off. With the beauty, the sound, the quality of the materials and the brand values, buyers were able to forgive the previous Vantage driving not quite as well as a Porsche or an R8. Now? And it's much more expensive.

Completely agree. I bought a DB9 in 2003/4 long before any reports of it where out. Pretty much the same about the V12Vantage back in 2009. I have had a deposit down for more than 18 months on the new Vantage but will not follow through.

[Gettoff]

waremark said:

Don’t agree. Most Vantage buyers bought the car for the emotion of it, in which looks played a large part This is the first mainstream Aston in several decades which hasn't been great looking right from the off.

Completely subjective whether you think it's the first in decades that isn't great looking. I can think of several Astons from the last 30 years that don't do it for me, so I didn't buy one, simples.

[dunebuggy]

Gettoff said:

Completely subjective whether you think it's the first in decades that isn't great looking. I can think of several Astons from the last 30 years that don't do it for me, so I didn't buy one, simples.

While I agree it's subjective...It does seem that on this occasion most subjects are not convinced. I really wanted to like it, and i keep trying even now but...perhaps that's the point. I'm having to try very hard indeed.

I might still go for the DB11 V8 which is lovely.

[onlogbook.com]

My younger brother has never been a fan of Astons, not have many of his mates. They like this one. With the outgoing v8v and db9, they was considerable overlap in who bought them. I think this new v8v sets itself apart much more from the gentleman’s DB11. As such, aston will simply lose some old fans but hopefully gain new ones.

[dunebuggy]

onlogbook.com said:

My younger brother has never been a fan of Astons, not have many of his mates. They like this one. With the outgoing v8v and db9, they was considerable overlap in who bought them. I think this new v8v sets itself apart much more from the gentleman’s DB11. As such, aston will simply lose some old fans but hopefully gain new ones.

Are you suggesting we're a bunch of old farts??!!!



I strongly suspect many of us are and I sincerely hope you're correct and that the brand gathers new admirers. If the forthcoming Vanquish etc captures some hard charging performance and (subjective) beauty then so be it. It's a shame for me i suppose but i'll be happy to be proven wrong.

[Jon39]

Any product might be changed, to make it more attractive to younger buyers, but in so doing, possibly it might become less attractive to existing buyers.
When such a change is also accompanied by a substantial price increase, it raises another question.

As a younger buyer, I could not afford to buy an expensive new sports car. As a slightly older buyer I can, but might then look for different features.

Presumably those financial circumstances are not unique to me, so could there be a broader pattern?

Edited by Jon39 on Monday 15th January 09:03

[anonymous-user]

Like for many premium brands the traditional customer base is rapidly ageing so it could be a move towards attracting younger generations to the brand, but the pricing is crazy if that is the case. As a 40 something myself and new to the brand the new vantage does not appeal to me, I must be an old fart already?

[Venturist]

What’s the point in building two cars that are similarly priced and appeal to broadly the same buyers? The older generation either like the DB11, or they don’t, there’s not much chance of gaining market share by making a slightly smaller DB11, you’ll probably poach as many of your existing buyers as you do other manufacturers’. Pitching it to a different market makes a lot of sense and I hope it pans out for them (for the sake of my residuals)

[RichB]

At the launch I attended there were young and old people, a complete spectrum of owners and ages, my son for example is 34. Yet the conversation was about the frontal aspect of the car, it was not the young people whooping in glee while the oldies scoffed behind their hands! It's not an age thing; it's a simple case of poor design.

[waremark]

Venturist said:

What’s the point in building two cars that are similarly priced and appeal to broadly the same buyers? The older generation either like the DB11, or they don’t, there’s not much chance of gaining market share by making a slightly smaller DB11, you’ll probably poach as many of your existing buyers as you do other manufacturers’. Pitching it to a different market makes a lot of sense and I hope it pans out for them (for the sake of my residuals)

The DB9 was significantly more GT, the Vantage more sports car, and there was a substantial price difference, so they were well differentiated in spite of the similar appearance.

[Venturist]

waremark said:

The DB9 was significantly more GT, the Vantage more sports car, and there was a substantial price difference, so they were well differentiated in spite of the similar appearance.

But, many people are casual buyers came to Aston Martin to buy “an” elegant pretty british sporty car, and were faced with a choice of two that did largely the same thing ticking those boxes but were “well differentiated in price”, presumably many picked the cheaper of the two on that basis. you had to really want 2+2 or GT performance characteristics or a V12 to jump up to the DB9. Anyone who wanted aggressive styling wasn’t even in the door,

The new tack seems to be to differentiate more on character than price and hope to attract more conquest customers from other brands - Lambo, Porsche GT3, etc., while anticipating that those original customers who just wanted a “traditional Aston” will be happy with the DB11

[Speedraser]

Venturist said:

waremark said:

The DB9 was significantly more GT, the Vantage more sports car, and there was a substantial price difference, so they were well differentiated in spite of the similar appearance.

But, many people are casual buyers came to Aston Martin to buy “an” elegant pretty british sporty car, and were faced with a choice of two that did largely the same thing ticking those boxes but were “well differentiated in price”, presumably many picked the cheaper of the two on that basis. you had to really want 2+2 or GT performance characteristics or a V12 to jump up to the DB9. Anyone who wanted aggressive styling wasn’t even in the door,

The new tack seems to be to differentiate more on character than price and hope to attract more conquest customers from other brands - Lambo, Porsche GT3, etc., while anticipating that those original customers who just wanted a “traditional Aston” will be happy with the DB11

I'm with waremark on this. When I bought my V8V new in '09, I bought it rather than a DB9 because it was clearly the sports car -- my preference -- whereas the DB9 was clearly the GT. No lack of character differentiation IMO, and both cars were beautiful. Now, IMO, neither (Vantage or DB11) is.

[Speedraser]

waremark said:

Gettoff said:

I If it drives as well we all hope then all the worrying about bonnet shut-lines, interior knobs and the like can be forgotten about.

Don’t agree. Most Vantage buyers bought the car for the emotion of it, in which looks played a large part This is the first mainstream Aston in several decades which hasn't been great looking right from the off. With the beauty, the sound, the quality of the materials and the brand values, buyers were able to forgive the previous Vantage driving not quite as well as a Porsche or an R8. Now? And it's much more expensive.

Again, I'm with waremark. I hope, and expect, it'll be great to drive. Assuming it is, the shut lines, plastic switchgear and what looks and feels to me a much cheaper-to-build car (yet higher-priced), over-fussy design in and out and -- yes -- the bought-in engine will all continue to matter. A lot.

[AstonV]

New Vantage showcased at Sunset GT in Los Angeles last Sunday. It didn't appear to appeal to the younger crowd. This whole younger buyer, older buyer is really silly, if the design is a miss, it's a miss. I believe the car will have to evolve over time with tweaks to the hood, lights and the grill. It's missing that intangible something that makes a car special, Aston just need to find that something.

[Jon39]

Venturist said:

But, many people are casual buyers came to Aston Martin to buy “an” elegant pretty british sporty car, and were faced with a choice of two that did largely the same thing ticking those boxes but were “well differentiated in price”, presumably many picked the cheaper of the two on that basis. you had to really want 2+2 or GT performance characteristics or a V12 to jump up to the DB9. Anyone who wanted aggressive styling wasn’t even in the door,

When I came to AM that was not my experience, and as a used buyer, there was not even any price difference.

Certainly very similar looking cars, but the additional length of the DB9 was not for me. I preferred the appearance feature of the Vantage's short rear overhang behind the rear wheels, the practicality of the tailgate, and the larger rear boot.

Sometimes it can be the small details, that influence buyers final decisions.

[avinalarf]

I don't dislike the styling of the new Vantage but can understand that it does not appeal to everybody.
Of more interest to me is where AM are positioning themselves price wise.
For example the base price of a Porsche 911 is circa £78K and a Cayman £43K whilst the Vantage is £121K.
How much do you think this price difference will affect a prospective purchaser ?
Also In the past a 3/5 years old Vantage would sell at circa £40/50K which is when many on PH find it affordable,this important price point will not be the case with the new Vantage.
If it is the intention of AM to increase production I'm wondering whether this strategy of hiking up their prices will help in this regard.

[Wayne95]

avinalarf said:

I don't dislike the styling of the new Vantage but can understand that it does not appeal to everybody.
Of more interest to me is where AM are positioning themselves price wise.
For example the base price of a Porsche 911 is circa £78K and a Cayman £43K whilst the Vantage is £121K.
How much do you think this price difference will affect a prospective purchaser ?
Also In the past a 3/5 years old Vantage would sell at circa £40/50K which is when many on PH find it affordable,this important price point will not be the case with the new Vantage.
If it is the intention of AM to increase production I'm wondering whether this strategy of hiking up their prices will help in this regard.

I think Porsche now have the 80-100k sports car market to themselves, except for the F-Type what competition do they have in bespoke sports cars?

Aston now pitching the Vantage against Mclaren, Audi R8, AMG, rather than as an "affordable" Aston. Their volumes are way different to 911, and the Vantage never took significant sales from Porsche in the past, so a move up market in a lower volume sector may see more profit, if not significantly more volume

A shame for those of us not wealthy enough, so grab your old Vantage now and live the dream as the brand will run away from us

[ChilliWhizz]

AstonV said:

New Vantage showcased at Sunset GT in Los Angeles last Sunday. It didn't appear to appeal to the younger crowd. This whole younger buyer, older buyer is really silly, if the design is a miss, it's a miss. I believe the car will have to evolve over time with tweaks to the hood, lights and the grill. It's missing that intangible something that makes a car special, Aston just need to find that something.

Totally agree with the above sentiments, except, it's a bonnet old chap, not a 'hood'

[avinalarf]

Wayne95 said:

I think Porsche now have the 80-100k sports car market to themselves, except for the F-Type what competition do they have in bespoke sports cars?

Aston now pitching the Vantage against Mclaren, Audi R8, AMG, rather than as an "affordable" Aston. Their volumes are way different to 911, and the Vantage never took significant sales from Porsche in the past, so a move up market in a lower volume sector may see more profit, if not significantly more volume

A shame for those of us not wealthy enough, so grab your old Vantage now and live the dream as the brand will run away from us

That is exactly the point I'm making.
If AM are intending to become less niche and more mainstream then pricing is important.
AM are extending their range with an SUV and several other new models in the near future.
The market is not lacking in competition and there is a price gap between the Jag and Porsche
ranges and the Ferrari/ Lambo market.
AM could have nicely inserted itself in that position.
For those that wanted a Supercar they would have the Vanquish at circa £200k and their halo models whilst still attracting the "volume" market with a Vantage starting at £90K a V8 DB11 at £100K and an SUV at say £120K.
These would be base prices with many purchasers of new cars speccing extras adding say 10/20% more to the price.

Edited by avinalarf on Tuesday 16th January 10:24

[Jon39]

Wayne95 said:

avinalarf said:

I don't dislike the styling of the new Vantage but can understand that it does not appeal to everybody.
Of more interest to me is where AM are positioning themselves price wise.
For example the base price of a Porsche 911 is circa £78K and a Cayman £43K whilst the Vantage is £121K.
How much do you think this price difference will affect a prospective purchaser ?
Also In the past a 3/5 years old Vantage would sell at circa £40/50K which is when many on PH find it affordable,this important price point will not be the case with the new Vantage.
If it is the intention of AM to increase production I'm wondering whether this strategy of hiking up their prices will help in this regard.

I think Porsche now have the 80-100k sports car market to themselves, except for the F-Type what competition do they have in bespoke sports cars?

Aston now pitching the Vantage against Mclaren, Audi R8, AMG, rather than as an "affordable" Aston. Their volumes are way different to 911, and the Vantage never took significant sales from Porsche in the past, so a move up market in a lower volume sector may see more profit, if not significantly more volume

A shame for those of us not wealthy enough, so grab your old Vantage now and live the dream as the brand will run away from us

Very salient points in my opinion.

I don't have figures to hand, but in about 2002 a new Aston Martin was a very expensive purchase.
The Vantage was then introduced, at a much lower price than any previous AM, so became obtainable to a much bigger group of buyers.

There seems now to be a reversal of that strategy, because as you describe, the products are now returning to those earlier much more exclusive pricing levels.
Remember also of course, that I don't think anyone has ever seen a base list price Aston Martin. They are presumably 'suck you in prices'. We were told that the red pre-production Vantage, doing the dealer launch tour, would cost £155,000.

There is considerable media hype now, with interviews and press releases about future model plans. Could there be any connection with a pre-flotation period?
I don't know, just wondering. It is never easy for any business, but sustainable high future sales are needed by any public company, to keep investors interested.

I do hope that everything goes well for Aston Martin.

Edited by Jon39 on Tuesday 16th January 10:33