Discussion
Jon39 said:
Very salient points in my opinion.
I don't have figures to hand, but in about 2002 a new Aston Martin was a very expensive purchase.
The Vantage was then introduced, at a much lower price than any previous AM, so became obtainable to a much bigger group of buyers.
There seems now to be a reversal of that strategy, because as you describe, the products are now returning to those earlier much more exclusive pricing levels.
Remember also of course, that I don't think anyone has ever seen a base list price Aston Martin. They are presumably 'suck you in prices'. We were told that the red pre-production Vantage, doing the dealer launch tour, would cost £155,000.
There is considerable media hype now, with interviews and press releases about future model plans. Could there be any connection with a pre-flotation period?
I don't know, just wondering. It is never easy for any business, but sustainable high future sales are needed by any public company, to keep investors interested.
I do hope that everything goes well for Aston Martin.
Edited by Jon39 on Tuesday 16th January 10:33
At lower volumes than most manufacturers don't see the recent prices as that much of a change and can see need to position at that level.
[edit Motorsport mag august 1999 - DB7 Vantage £92,500, £7,500 over 6 cyclinder version &
Pistonheads review 2002 DB7 Vanatge a £100k car & "most affordable Aston ever made" and Top Gear 2002 £94,000]
Edited by RL17 on Tuesday 16th January 12:43
martinvantage said:
I suspect its sold out for a year if everyone who placed a deposit follows up with a firm order order. Some wont though others may step in. Personally I did place a deposit on the car. Undecided whether to go ahead after seeing it again last night. i enjoyed standing looking at the rear three quarter angle of the car. Moved round to the front....and well its all been said.
So much will depend how it drives.
Indeed, and don't forget dealers and other opportunistic trade buyers, who only bought it to (re)sell it (for a premium). This happens with almost all cars in this segment, and then, when the hype is over after a few months, many many (almost) new cars can be bought everywhere. So much will depend how it drives.
Agree with much being said.
I much prefer Vantage to DB9/DBS as it is sports oriented - taut in design and you feel part of the car as a driver. DB9 is bigger, softer and I never have felt part of the car - to me it has always felt a bit long in the middle (and dare I say it) not fully sorted in the geometry/damping department for very fast progress - but a lovely GT.
The new Vantage is not authentic Aston whatever your definition, design wise or engineering wise.
The brand positioning given the underlying engineering is very very hopeful and maybe only makes sense if Aston were being set up as a halo brand for Mercedes. The only oddity in that scenario is paying to put the name on a Red Bull F1 car.
I much prefer Vantage to DB9/DBS as it is sports oriented - taut in design and you feel part of the car as a driver. DB9 is bigger, softer and I never have felt part of the car - to me it has always felt a bit long in the middle (and dare I say it) not fully sorted in the geometry/damping department for very fast progress - but a lovely GT.
The new Vantage is not authentic Aston whatever your definition, design wise or engineering wise.
The brand positioning given the underlying engineering is very very hopeful and maybe only makes sense if Aston were being set up as a halo brand for Mercedes. The only oddity in that scenario is paying to put the name on a Red Bull F1 car.
AWV12 said:
Indeed, and don't forget dealers and other opportunistic trade buyers, who only bought it to (re)sell it (for a premium). This happens with almost all cars in this segment, and then, when the hype is over after a few months, many many (almost) new cars can be bought everywhere.
The last year V8 Vantage here in the USA was a limited edition GTS. I inquired when I first heard about it at a couple dealers here and was told they were all sold out. This was months before they hit our shores. Still quite a few unsold GTS Vantages in inventory. I suspect the same with the new Vantage, there will be lot of unsold inventory when it starts to arrive. It's a good $40,000 jump up from a fully loaded GTS, I don't think that will help sales.Just had a look at the new Vantage at the Boston dealership. Overall, a very good looking car. Muscular in the right places. A great presence.
Don't love the nose, but not hating it either.
I was able to start it up for a moment. Salesman put it in track mode and told me to rev it. Sounded great! Like an angry race car. Did not detect too much AMG in the exhaust note.
At this point, I think I'd want a DB11 before a new Vantage.
Don't love the nose, but not hating it either.
I was able to start it up for a moment. Salesman put it in track mode and told me to rev it. Sounded great! Like an angry race car. Did not detect too much AMG in the exhaust note.
At this point, I think I'd want a DB11 before a new Vantage.
AstonV said:
The last year V8 Vantage here in the USA was a limited edition GTS. I inquired when I first heard about it at a couple dealers here and was told they were all sold out. This was months before they hit our shores. Still quite a few unsold GTS Vantages in inventory.
I suspect the same with the new Vantage, there will be lot of unsold inventory when it starts to arrive. It's a good $40,000 jump up from a fully loaded GTS, I don't think that will help sales.
I suspect the same with the new Vantage, there will be lot of unsold inventory when it starts to arrive. It's a good $40,000 jump up from a fully loaded GTS, I don't think that will help sales.
V8 Vantage GTS Limited Edition (USA only)
61 Coupes
39 Roadsters
Speedraser said:
waremark said:
Gettoff said:
I If it drives as well we all hope then all the worrying about bonnet shut-lines, interior knobs and the like can be forgotten about.
Don’t agree. Most Vantage buyers bought the car for the emotion of it, in which looks played a large part This is the first mainstream Aston in several decades which hasn't been great looking right from the off. With the beauty, the sound, the quality of the materials and the brand values, buyers were able to forgive the previous Vantage driving not quite as well as a Porsche or an R8. Now? And it's much more expensive. I sat in the car at Gaydon and liked the interior, thought the driving position was good and was impressed with the interior space. A car which is a pre-production vehicle, so shouldn't really be judged on overall quality, panel gaps etc. The 2005 Vantage was and still is a beautiful car, but was hardly a paragon of build quality when it first came out was it? It improved over its lifespan as will the new one I'm sure.
Moving the Vantage and DB11 away from each other is a good move IMO as the original V8V and DB9 were too close together. There will be a range of five distinct models in a few years, plus the variations within each model line, hopefully then there will something for everyone. Maybe even one with a 'proper' engine for Speedwhinger
^^^ How silly of me to want an Aston Martin engine in an Aston Martin... Of course how it drives matters -- but only if none of the other things is a deal breaker. By the way, I didn't complain about the fit/finish of the New Vantage I looked at. It's the much greater use of plastic (and some other things) I don't like, which IMO makes the interior (and the exterior) look and feel like a cheaper car. Yet the price is higher.
Edited by Speedraser on Wednesday 17th January 05:34
Jon39 said:
Very salient points in my opinion.
I don't have figures to hand, but in about 2002 a new Aston Martin was a very expensive purchase.
The Vantage was then introduced, at a much lower price than any previous AM, so became obtainable to a much bigger group of buyers.
There seems now to be a reversal of that strategy, because as you describe, the products are now returning to those earlier much more exclusive pricing levels.
Remember also of course, that I don't think anyone has ever seen a base list price Aston Martin. They are presumably 'suck you in prices'. We were told that the red pre-production Vantage, doing the dealer launch tour, would cost £155,000.
There is considerable media hype now, with interviews and press releases about future model plans. Could there be any connection with a pre-flotation period?
I don't know, just wondering. It is never easy for any business, but sustainable high future sales are needed by any public company, to keep investors interested.
I do hope that everything goes well for Aston Martin.
Edited by Jon39 on Tuesday 16th January 10:33
Also, the V8V was not the least expensive Aston ever -- not at all. I looked into this a while ago so don't have the exact figures in front of me at the moment, but in the US, the price of the DB2, DB4/5/6, and DBS were all lower when adjusted for inflation than the V8V's when it was introduced. It wasn't until the mid '70s or so that the (NP) V8 reached a similar price to the V8V when I bought mine in '09. The prices did rise rapidly after that.
spyker138 said:
Agree with much being said.
I much prefer Vantage to DB9/DBS as it is sports oriented - taut in design and you feel part of the car as a driver. DB9 is bigger, softer and I never have felt part of the car - to me it has always felt a bit long in the middle (and dare I say it) not fully sorted in the geometry/damping department for very fast progress - but a lovely GT.
.
Funnily enough my first drive in an Aston was a DB9 which was the one I'd really fancied , came back from the road test with my mind made up , not for me.I much prefer Vantage to DB9/DBS as it is sports oriented - taut in design and you feel part of the car as a driver. DB9 is bigger, softer and I never have felt part of the car - to me it has always felt a bit long in the middle (and dare I say it) not fully sorted in the geometry/damping department for very fast progress - but a lovely GT.
.
Got invited back to have a drive in a Vantage which left me very much in the same mind as you and ended up buying one.
Over the moon with it , but I like many have followed the ongoing saga of the new Vantage release , again like many I'm not 100 % sure on the look from the front , I'm not getting my knickers in a twist like some about the engine or gear box , but what's sticking in my throat is the uplift in price .
AM have lifted the basic price a tad too high , then as you'd expect everything seems to be a very expensive extra , I've got in my head I'd be paying £155 k tops for one specced up .
I'm afraid that's me out of the AM market if and when I want a new car.
I know one that has been ordered and its come out at over £170 k , far too much to pay for a first edition Vantage.
At that sort of level of purchase price I'd be having a good look at a McLaren as an alternative.
All in my humble opinion obviously.
Speedraser said:
^^^ How silly of me to want an Aston Martin engine in an Aston Martin...
Not an unreasonable statement to be fair, but when you've heard it 1,389,540,001 times, it starts to become a bit tedious.Agree with most on the price though, it is expensive compared to what came before, but is the list price that much different to the inflation adjusted V8V from 2005? I don't think it's far off, but it's the extras that really hike it up. I think we were slightly spoiled in the last few years with the amount of discount available on new mainstream AM's, probably necessary as much of the range was overdue for replacement and it had to be done to shift units.
I personally wont be getting a new Vantage anytime soon but will take another look in a year or two to see how it's developing and what used prices are like. When I went for the V12VR a few months ago it was fairly evenly matched price-wise with the new car and V12VSM but went for the original option, time will tell if that was a wise decision or not but the option to change is always there.
Gettoff said:
Not an unreasonable statement to be fair, but when you've heard it 1,389,540,001 times, it starts to become a bit tedious.
Agree with most on the price though, it is expensive compared to what came before, but is the list price that much different to the inflation adjusted V8V from 2005? I don't think it's far off, but it's the extras that really hike it up. I think we were slightly spoiled in the last few years with the amount of discount available on new mainstream AM's, probably necessary as much of the range was overdue for replacement and it had to be done to shift units.
I personally wont be getting a new Vantage anytime soon but will take another look in a year or two to see how it's developing and what used prices are like. When I went for the V12VR a few months ago it was fairly evenly matched price-wise with the new car and V12VSM but went for the original option, time will tell if that was a wise decision or not but the option to change is always there.
The part in bold is quite important here; in the 12 years since the last Vantage was launched, other manufacturers have upped their list prices quite a lot. If we take the 911 Turbo and R8, on the grounds that they're the competition now, both have gone up in list price by around £30k since 2006/07. On that basis, the Vantage doesn't look such bad value, certainly when we address the elephant in the room which is that even in V12S form at nearly £130k base, it couldn't take on the competition at that price point. It looked and sounded nicer, but it wasn't the dynamic pinnacle.Agree with most on the price though, it is expensive compared to what came before, but is the list price that much different to the inflation adjusted V8V from 2005? I don't think it's far off, but it's the extras that really hike it up. I think we were slightly spoiled in the last few years with the amount of discount available on new mainstream AM's, probably necessary as much of the range was overdue for replacement and it had to be done to shift units.
I personally wont be getting a new Vantage anytime soon but will take another look in a year or two to see how it's developing and what used prices are like. When I went for the V12VR a few months ago it was fairly evenly matched price-wise with the new car and V12VSM but went for the original option, time will tell if that was a wise decision or not but the option to change is always there.
Because it's been 12 years since the last car, any price hike would seem dramatic. The benefit larger firms have is they can introduce a new / revised model every couple of years and gradually up the list price, and nobody asks any questions. Aston don't have that luxury, so as much we'd like a sub £100k entry level model in 2018, those days are long gone sadly.
The difference this time around though, and it'll be the same for the DBS and Vanquish, is the Vantage has the performance to rival other heavy hitters, and has been priced accordingly. When the Vanquish appears, it's aimed squarely at taking on the 812SF, so I'd expect it to be priced accordingly, rather than matching the outgoing Vanquish.
The new Vantage isn't as pretty as the last car, but it's still the one I'd pick given the alternatives at that price point (911, AMG GT, R8, 540C).
Gettoff said:
Agree with most on the price though, it is expensive compared to what came before, but is the list price that much different to the inflation adjusted V8V from 2005? I don't think it's far off, but it's the extras that really hike it up.
Yes you are right.
Was it about £75,000 list at launch?
If so, that translates into about £106,000 now.
In recent times, we have considered inflation to have been fairly low.
Frightening how it compounds after a number of years.
As you say, latterly the 'real terms' price of the original car gradually became more attractive, although as has been mentioned here, a few of the standard fitments did become options.
Jon39 said:
Yes you are right.
Was it about £75,000 list at launch?
If so, that translates into about £106,000 now.
Jon39 said:
As you say, latterly the 'real terms' price of the original car gradually became more attractive, although as has been mentioned here, a few of the standard fitments did become options.
It's a fine line I guess between charging enough to make a profit, but not so much as not to alienate existing or potential buyers. Given AM's record over the years, this whole making money thing is relatively new for them, and this far into AP's tenure they've done a pretty good job IMO. Maybe styling-wise they've not hit the spot 100% for everyone but the next few years look promising. As long as they don't do a replacement Cygnet of course..Admittedly Aston don't have the 'parts bin' to the extent of other manufactures previously (Audi, Porsche etc) so I suppose for the most part you're paying for a more bespoke product.
You can tell the new one has pinched a few items of MB and there is probably more packed in under the skin, but for me, if that's increasing their margins on what is hopefully going to be their biggest selling new car then I'm all for it.
You can tell the new one has pinched a few items of MB and there is probably more packed in under the skin, but for me, if that's increasing their margins on what is hopefully going to be their biggest selling new car then I'm all for it.
I have the original vehicle order form for my Vantage, dated 09/05/06, and car was delivered to its first owner in December 2006. Basic vehicle price was £70,468.09. Options amounted to £5,685.09, delivery a further £755.00, bringing the sub total to £76,908.18. VAT, RFL, and an insurance fee (£38.00) took it to a total of £90,615.11
Interesting that 12 months RFL in 2006 was £210.00
Chilli
Interesting that 12 months RFL in 2006 was £210.00
Chilli
NFC 85 Vette said:
The new Vantage isn't as pretty as the last car, but it's still the one I'd pick given the alternatives at that price point (911, AMG GT, R8, 540C).
I agree, I have made the right decision I think! Glad you agree. 
Now if only I had the cojones to get in Lime Essence or Yellow Tang...note to self: Grow a Pair!!
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