Discussion
Saw an all black Vantage here in California, only the second sighted during our visit to LA and it looked pretty stunning among all the other supercars cruising the streets in Beverly Hills. The new Vantage is growing on me and with the next iteration hopefully coming with carbon discs and a V12 it could be irresistible - like the old V12V once was.
Mr.Tremlini said:
ArgieBargy said:
RL17 said:
Mr.Tremlini said:
I don`t hate the new gear knob per se, but when you consider what they have managed in the past it does look a bit like it`s not a push to imagine it`s been lifted from a Honda or Hyundai, and that`s not what you want for 150K. Cynic that I am, I imagine a Carbon, Alloy, Titanium or Moon Dust version in the spec list before too long...
Have seen worse gear knobs occasionally - but the gear knob and the pedals don't fit in with rest of car. 18 year old TT runaround in pouring rain today has much better gear knob and pedals.Mainly use 3rd & 4th in V8V (rarely 5th and very rarely 6th in UK) - dogleg box good for tracks with hairpins (on dry tracks
)This Vantage is a car that really needs to be appreciated in the flesh rather than on a screen.
Can't wait to take delivery now and offend other AM PHer's with how ugly it is, apparently...
As people often say that purchasing an Aston is matter of the heart and not the head, the brand will invariably draw comments on both sides of the spectrum due to this impassioned philosophy. Personally I like the new Vantage, both in looks and having driven it, and have said so many times, in the same way that many people have to repeat that they don`t like it, find it ugly, MX-5 etc etc, ad nauseam, as is there right to do so. I find it boring and somewhat lacking in imagination to repeat the same s
t over and over, in a typically troll-like manner, but suspect many do it just for the rise they get from others, which would allow any psychologist to define the character type.Your AMR looks fantastic Argy, and despite it`s gear knob I`d have one quite happily.
Most of us who have been critical of the new car, me included, do NOT gratuitously announce, periodically, that we don’t like its looks, or its engine source, or its dash, or whatever. Few, if any, of us do it for "sport." That's just absurd. We do it because we're enthusiasts, we love the marque, and we'd love them to build a car we want to buy. The criticism usually comes up when that particular issue or item is brought up in a post. If someone who likes it says it’s gorgeous, someone who doesn’t may well say it’s not. If someone says the AMG engine is wonderful, someone may reply that any non-Aston engine is a deal-breaker. The notion that negative commentary should end after two years makes no sense – many of us would be buyers if we liked the car. Negative commentary doesn’t have to be never-heard-before – someone may find the same things worthy of criticism over time. If one doesn’t want an AMG engine in one’s Aston, one may still feel that way after two years. Or 10. Or always. So it still matters, and it’s still a reasonable discussion point. Again, in the threads about an individual’s new car, the negative stuff almost never happens. However, in a thread about the car in general – likes and dislikes – likes and dislikes should be able to be discussed without a time limit. And without people proclaiming that only positive posts are permissible. I’d hope that people aren’t so sensitive as to leave the forum because some people say they don’t love their cars -- in a thread that is specifically about what people like and don't like about those cars.
Argie, I genuinely hope you love your new car, and well done on the gearbox choice!
Argie, I genuinely hope you love your new car, and well done on the gearbox choice!
Speedraser said:
Most of us who have been critical of the new car, me included, do NOT gratuitously announce, periodically, that we don’t like its looks, or its engine source, or its dash, or whatever. Few, if any, of us do it for "sport." That's just absurd. We do it because we're enthusiasts, we love the marque, and we'd love them to build a car we want to buy. The criticism usually comes up when that particular issue or item is brought up in a post. If someone who likes it says it’s gorgeous, someone who doesn’t may well say it’s not. If someone says the AMG engine is wonderful, someone may reply that any non-Aston engine is a deal-breaker. The notion that negative commentary should end after two years makes no sense – many of us would be buyers if we liked the car. Negative commentary doesn’t have to be never-heard-before – someone may find the same things worthy of criticism over time. If one doesn’t want an AMG engine in one’s Aston, one may still feel that way after two years. Or 10. Or always. So it still matters, and it’s still a reasonable discussion point. Again, in the threads about an individual’s new car, the negative stuff almost never happens. However, in a thread about the car in general – likes and dislikes – likes and dislikes should be able to be discussed without a time limit. And without people proclaiming that only positive posts are permissible. I’d hope that people aren’t so sensitive as to leave the forum because some people say they don’t love their cars -- in a thread that is specifically about what people like and don't like about those cars.
Argie, I genuinely hope you love your new car, and well done on the gearbox choice!
Agree on the aboveArgie, I genuinely hope you love your new car, and well done on the gearbox choice!
I'd also like to say that if comments are limited just to those who've been invited to pre-release events or cars in the flesh they would be very few posts on here.
Speedraser said:
Most of us who have been critical of the new car, me included, do NOT gratuitously announce, periodically, that we don’t like its looks, or its engine source, or its dash, or whatever. Few, if any, of us do it for "sport." That's just absurd. We do it because we're enthusiasts, we love the marque, and we'd love them to build a car we want to buy. The criticism usually comes up when that particular issue or item is brought up in a post. If someone who likes it says it’s gorgeous, someone who doesn’t may well say it’s not. If someone says the AMG engine is wonderful, someone may reply that any non-Aston engine is a deal-breaker. The notion that negative commentary should end after two years makes no sense – many of us would be buyers if we liked the car. Negative commentary doesn’t have to be never-heard-before – someone may find the same things worthy of criticism over time. If one doesn’t want an AMG engine in one’s Aston, one may still feel that way after two years. Or 10. Or always. So it still matters, and it’s still a reasonable discussion point. Again, in the threads about an individual’s new car, the negative stuff almost never happens. However, in a thread about the car in general – likes and dislikes – likes and dislikes should be able to be discussed without a time limit. And without people proclaiming that only positive posts are permissible. I’d hope that people aren’t so sensitive as to leave the forum because some people say they don’t love their cars -- in a thread that is specifically about what people like and don't like about those cars.
Argie, I genuinely hope you love your new car, and well done on the gearbox choice!
You have no need to post negative stuff about an individual's new car, when you can hack us all off with statements like, and I quote from your post of Nov 8th, albeit on a general thread about DBX ..."And for me, an Aston with a Benz engine is not an Aston'. Why on earth would you want to be negative on an individual's new car thread, when you can dismiss us all in one go with this nonsense ?Argie, I genuinely hope you love your new car, and well done on the gearbox choice!
hornbaek said:
Saw an all black Vantage here in California, only the second sighted during our visit to LA and it looked pretty stunning among all the other supercars cruising the streets in Beverly Hills. The new Vantage is growing on me and with the next iteration hopefully coming with carbon discs and a V12 it could be irresistible - like the old V12V once was.
I know a fair number of people that would like to see the V12 engine in the new Vantage. I’m sure where there’s a will there must be a way.RobDown said:
hornbaek said:
Saw an all black Vantage here in California, only the second sighted during our visit to LA and it looked pretty stunning among all the other supercars cruising the streets in Beverly Hills. The new Vantage is growing on me and with the next iteration hopefully coming with carbon discs and a V12 it could be irresistible - like the old V12V once was.
I know a fair number of people that would like to see the V12 engine in the new Vantage. I’m sure where there’s a will there must be a way.AdamV12AMR said:
Felonious said:
You reckon it needs a V12? The new Vantage is deliciously quick and wonderfully well-balanced. It sounds pretty good, too.
As the 420bhp 4.7 V8V did before it. Didn't stop them last time though 
Carry on. :-)
RobDown said:
hornbaek said:
Saw an all black Vantage here in California, only the second sighted during our visit to LA and it looked pretty stunning among all the other supercars cruising the streets in Beverly Hills. The new Vantage is growing on me and with the next iteration hopefully coming with carbon discs and a V12 it could be irresistible - like the old V12V once was.
I know a fair number of people that would like to see the V12 engine in the new Vantage. I’m sure where there’s a will there must be a way.
Thread is getting a bit heated so my attempt at a bit of humour.
I would add that it doesn’t matter what anyone thinks about any purchase, its what you think about your purchase that matters. I still love my DBS and bought a 992 to compliment it. Suppose i could be branded a traitor to the AM brand but am I bothered......don’t give a stuff!
Speedraser said:
Most of us who have been critical of the new car, me included, do NOT gratuitously announce, periodically, that we don’t like its looks, or its engine source, or its dash, or whatever. Few, if any, of us do it for "sport." That's just absurd. We do it because we're enthusiasts, we love the marque, and we'd love them to build a car we want to buy. The criticism usually comes up when that particular issue or item is brought up in a post. If someone who likes it says it’s gorgeous, someone who doesn’t may well say it’s not. If someone says the AMG engine is wonderful, someone may reply that any non-Aston engine is a deal-breaker. The notion that negative commentary should end after two years makes no sense – many of us would be buyers if we liked the car. Negative commentary doesn’t have to be never-heard-before – someone may find the same things worthy of criticism over time. If one doesn’t want an AMG engine in one’s Aston, one may still feel that way after two years. Or 10. Or always. So it still matters, and it’s still a reasonable discussion point. Again, in the threads about an individual’s new car, the negative stuff almost never happens. However, in a thread about the car in general – likes and dislikes – likes and dislikes should be able to be discussed without a time limit. And without people proclaiming that only positive posts are permissible. I’d hope that people aren’t so sensitive as to leave the forum because some people say they don’t love their cars -- in a thread that is specifically about what people like and don't like about those cars.
Argie, I genuinely hope you love your new car, and well done on the gearbox choice!
Wouldn't you prefer a Porsche??? I think you'd really love a 911,,,, and their forum!!Argie, I genuinely hope you love your new car, and well done on the gearbox choice!
David Browns cars had a Bentley engine FFS, and they took Aston to a LeMans victory.
Octavarium said:
You have no need to post negative stuff about an individual's new car, when you can hack us all off with statements like, and I quote from your post of Nov 8th, albeit on a general thread about DBX ..."And for me, an Aston with a Benz engine is not an Aston'. Why on earth would you want to be negative on an individual's new car thread, when you can dismiss us all in one go with this nonsense ?
"... albeit on a general thread about DBX..." Thanks for making my point.roughrider said:
Wouldn't you prefer a Porsche??? I think you'd really love a 911,,,, and their forum!!
David Browns cars had a Bentley engine FFS, and they took Aston to a LeMans victory.
So stating an opinion different from yours makes one a Porsche-lover... Of course, Porsche 911s do have Porsche engines... But no, I'll keep my Aston Martins.David Browns cars had a Bentley engine FFS, and they took Aston to a LeMans victory.
About David Brown's cars having Bentley engines -- er, no. The DB2 through MkIII had the Lagonda LB6 engine, which was originally designed by Willie Watson -- and W.O. Bentley. DB bought Lagonda largely so he could get that engine. He didn't just buy it from someone else's shelf. Meaningful difference? People, reasonable and unreasonable, will differ.
If you bang your head harder, you might remember that the Lagonda engine was NOT the LeMans-winning engine in the DBR1. That LeMans-winning engine was the RB6. It was derived from the LB6, but comprehensively re-engineered. The RB6 was neither a Bentley engine nor a Lagonda engine. It had, among many other things, an entirely different engine block -- and did NOT have the bearing "cheeses" but rather had conventional main bearings. Later, David Brown decided against using bought-in engines, as other companies such as Bristol and Jensen were doing. Aston Martin was a "thoroughbred" said DB, and a thoroughbred deserved its own engine -- it was essential to its credibility to play at that level. So they developed the Marek-designed V8.
Speedraser said:
So stating an opinion different from yours makes one a Porsche-lover... Of course, Porsche 911s do have Porsche engines... But no, I'll keep my Aston Martins.
About David Brown's cars having Bentley engines -- er, no. The DB2 through MkIII had the Lagonda LB6 engine, which was originally designed by Willie Watson -- and W.O. Bentley. DB bought Lagonda largely so he could get that engine. He didn't just buy it from someone else's shelf. Meaningful difference? People, reasonable and unreasonable, will differ.
If you bang your head harder, you might remember that the Lagonda engine was NOT the LeMans-winning engine in the DBR1. That LeMans-winning engine was the RB6. It was derived from the LB6, but comprehensively re-engineered. The RB6 was neither a Bentley engine nor a Lagonda engine. It had, among many other things, an entirely different engine block -- and did NOT have the bearing "cheeses" but rather had conventional main bearings. Later, David Brown decided against using bought-in engines, as other companies such as Bristol and Jensen were doing. Aston Martin was a "thoroughbred" said DB, and a thoroughbred deserved its own engine -- it was essential to its credibility to play at that level. So they developed the Marek-designed V8.
Comparisons with historic tales of how the company used to operate, are all well and good, but times have changed. While Porsche and Ferrari expanded, and made large profit while making excellent cars, Aston Martin sat still, losing money, making increasingly outdated cars, because of an insistence to remain "thoroughbred" even if it killed the company.About David Brown's cars having Bentley engines -- er, no. The DB2 through MkIII had the Lagonda LB6 engine, which was originally designed by Willie Watson -- and W.O. Bentley. DB bought Lagonda largely so he could get that engine. He didn't just buy it from someone else's shelf. Meaningful difference? People, reasonable and unreasonable, will differ.
If you bang your head harder, you might remember that the Lagonda engine was NOT the LeMans-winning engine in the DBR1. That LeMans-winning engine was the RB6. It was derived from the LB6, but comprehensively re-engineered. The RB6 was neither a Bentley engine nor a Lagonda engine. It had, among many other things, an entirely different engine block -- and did NOT have the bearing "cheeses" but rather had conventional main bearings. Later, David Brown decided against using bought-in engines, as other companies such as Bristol and Jensen were doing. Aston Martin was a "thoroughbred" said DB, and a thoroughbred deserved its own engine -- it was essential to its credibility to play at that level. So they developed the Marek-designed V8.
Surely by now, it should be obvious that Aston Martin are an underdog, trying to compete with much bigger car makers, with larger revenue streams and bigger R&D resources. They could either have committed to living in the past, and become more like Morgan, or they could up their game and produce relevant, high quality, high performance, bespoke sports cars, designed and built in the UK. They chose the latter but to climb from where they were to where they want to be, needed an intermediate step - what you see today.
The Aston Martin you see today, is one transitioning from the ways of the past (of making losses, selling inferior performing cars, which were primarily liked because of a perceived 'credibility' they possessed), to a future that provides the company with the money to develop everything in-house, and once again can be viewed as thoroughbred. The quantum leap from the old V8VS to current Vantage in terms of engine technology, was seismic - and to assume they could have just offered their own, class leading turbocharged V8 engine in 2018 shows how out of touch some are with what the competition currently is, and how far behind Aston had fallen at that point, particularly on emissions compliance.
Of course, in amongst all the bashing the new Vantage gets for not having an Aston developed engine, it's perfectly fine for another thread to be running specifically on the topic of which Ford, Mazda, Volvo and Jaguar parts can be used in an old Vantage, to keep the cost of repairs down. The utter irony in all this is that when you remove the engine and infotainment from the equation (and in a couple of years they'll be replaced by in-house units), new Astons feature a higher percentage of in-house produced parts than the last generation of cars, which shows they're heading in the right direction on the 'credibility' front, while building competitive cars.
It's a strange world we live in, and those of us foolish enough to talk about the positives in what's going on at the car maker we all have a passion for, will likely be shot down in this little corner on the internet (hence why so few new Vantage owners are active forum members).
My understanding, is that we probably don't need to get so 'excited' about Aston Martin engines being available in Mercedes A-class cars etc.
The following comments have been publicly stated by AML, so if it all happens, then Aston Martin should again have their own bespoke engines.
The Valkyrie has an Aston Martin engine. V12, N/A, 1,000 bhp.
That engine has been run in a quarter scale configuration, 3 cylinder, 250 bhp, so the design may be adaptable for future core models.
The future (core model) Vanquish, is to have a new Aston Martin V6 engine, which presumably will appear in other future core models.
Those engines involve development by Cosworth, who were commissioned by Aston Martin, so surely they can be considered true Aston Martin engines.
It was in the Dr. Bez era that the Mercedes contract was agreed and at that time, sales were slowing, losses had returned again and development money was very short. As mentioned by Jon above, there were few alternatives, but there now does seem to be a brighter future, which hopefully will please the engine critics.
NFC 85 Vette said:
Comparisons with historic tales of how the company used to operate, are all well and good, but times have changed. While Porsche and Ferrari expanded, and made large profit while making excellent cars, Aston Martin sat still, losing money, making increasingly outdated cars, because of an insistence to remain "thoroughbred" even if it killed the company.
Surely by now, it should be obvious that Aston Martin are an underdog, trying to compete with much bigger car makers, with larger revenue streams and bigger R&D resources. They could either have committed to living in the past, and become more like Morgan, or they could up their game and produce relevant, high quality, high performance, bespoke sports cars, designed and built in the UK. They chose the latter but to climb from where they were to where they want to be, needed an intermediate step - what you see today.
The Aston Martin you see today, is one transitioning from the ways of the past (of making losses, selling inferior performing cars, which were primarily liked because of a perceived 'credibility' they possessed), to a future that provides the company with the money to develop everything in-house, and once again can be viewed as thoroughbred. The quantum leap from the old V8VS to current Vantage in terms of engine technology, was seismic - and to assume they could have just offered their own, class leading turbocharged V8 engine in 2018 shows how out of touch some are with what the competition currently is, and how far behind Aston had fallen at that point, particularly on emissions compliance.
Of course, in amongst all the bashing the new Vantage gets for not having an Aston developed engine, it's perfectly fine for another thread to be running specifically on the topic of which Ford, Mazda, Volvo and Jaguar parts can be used in an old Vantage, to keep the cost of repairs down. The utter irony in all this is that when you remove the engine and infotainment from the equation (and in a couple of years they'll be replaced by in-house units), new Astons feature a higher percentage of in-house produced parts than the last generation of cars, which shows they're heading in the right direction on the 'credibility' front, while building competitive cars.
It's a strange world we live in, and those of us foolish enough to talk about the positives in what's going on at the car maker we all have a passion for, will likely be shot down in this little corner on the internet (hence why so few new Vantage owners are active forum members).
Surely by now, it should be obvious that Aston Martin are an underdog, trying to compete with much bigger car makers, with larger revenue streams and bigger R&D resources. They could either have committed to living in the past, and become more like Morgan, or they could up their game and produce relevant, high quality, high performance, bespoke sports cars, designed and built in the UK. They chose the latter but to climb from where they were to where they want to be, needed an intermediate step - what you see today.
The Aston Martin you see today, is one transitioning from the ways of the past (of making losses, selling inferior performing cars, which were primarily liked because of a perceived 'credibility' they possessed), to a future that provides the company with the money to develop everything in-house, and once again can be viewed as thoroughbred. The quantum leap from the old V8VS to current Vantage in terms of engine technology, was seismic - and to assume they could have just offered their own, class leading turbocharged V8 engine in 2018 shows how out of touch some are with what the competition currently is, and how far behind Aston had fallen at that point, particularly on emissions compliance.
Of course, in amongst all the bashing the new Vantage gets for not having an Aston developed engine, it's perfectly fine for another thread to be running specifically on the topic of which Ford, Mazda, Volvo and Jaguar parts can be used in an old Vantage, to keep the cost of repairs down. The utter irony in all this is that when you remove the engine and infotainment from the equation (and in a couple of years they'll be replaced by in-house units), new Astons feature a higher percentage of in-house produced parts than the last generation of cars, which shows they're heading in the right direction on the 'credibility' front, while building competitive cars.
It's a strange world we live in, and those of us foolish enough to talk about the positives in what's going on at the car maker we all have a passion for, will likely be shot down in this little corner on the internet (hence why so few new Vantage owners are active forum members).
Brilliant post, thank you.
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