Discussion
Ed50 said:
avinalarf said:
Excellent stuff...
There you go Andy....we've sorted it for you ....so here's the blurb....
"For the horny man in your life there's only one car the AM Vector ".
EFA……...There you go Andy....we've sorted it for you ....so here's the blurb....There you go Andy....we've sorted it for you ....so here's the blurb....
"For the horny man in your life there's only one car the AM Vector ".
"For the horny man in your life there's only one car the AM Viagra ".
And that,my friends,comes from Ed.....a man who speaks from experience.
Jon39 said:
avinalarf said:
jonby said:
I definitely come across more serious on here than I do in real life !
And I do like that name ! It just makes me smile :-)
So if you want to keep to your turf, come up with a name that makes me smile more. I'm the punter, you guys are the comedians, your job is to entertain
I thought your serious mode,quite in keeping with one of your profession ....an undertaker.And I do like that name ! It just makes me smile :-)
So if you want to keep to your turf, come up with a name that makes me smile more. I'm the punter, you guys are the comedians, your job is to entertain
Names.....apropos Ferrari ....LaLaVantage.
Keep up with your intelligent comments Jonby, it is much more appropriate on this AM forum than my guff.
Are your staff giving you hassle today Steven?
Captains of industry are supposed to be able to cope with all problems.
I don't think Jonby is an undertaker. He knows so much about AML, that he might even be Dr. Palmer.
You are possibly confused with Jockman.
woodsypedia said:
Speedraser said:
Won't matter. Someone else's engine in an "Aston" totally ruins it for me -- absolute deal-breaker.
Each to there own but I don't understand this. To play a scenario - if you were given a V12 Vantage but weren't able to open the bonnet (hood in America!), would you still enjoy the car if it had a faster response than my snappy Mexican ex wife and sounded like Meghan Markle mid orgasm - despite not knowing what's under the hood? The McLaren F1 used BMW engines, The Ariel Atom uses a Honda engine, The Paganai Huaryaryraura uses a Mercedes engine etc etc. The engine is only a small part of the power train - everything from gearbox tuning to exhaust configs and ECU maps all having a huge impact to the results.
That said, the bits you can touch and feel should rightfully have to be Aston owned or impacted. This is a huge issue with the DB11 and something I fear will hit the new Vantage - Merc front end.
Chris.
). I want to know. It's a vital part of what makes cars interesting to me, and for me there is no part that is more important than the engine. While I want the things you touch to be bespoke -- switchgear, etc – the stuff that really matters to me is what the car itself is – the platform/structure to me is akin to the bones, the engine is the heart. Does anyone say the Newport Pagnell V8 or Vanquish aren't real Astons because they have Jaguar switchgear in the center stack? No. The engine and the platform are the things that, more than anything else, form the foundation and soul of the car IMO and, therefore, must be unique to Aston. Otherwise, one could put an Aston badge on anything and call it an Aston. I think making an Aston requires much more than the stuff on the surface.Aston has a very long and great history of making its own engines. Those other cars you mention never made their own engines. Further, the McLaren F1 had a BESPOKE engine that was made by BMW for the F1 only -- no BMW uses that engine. Pagani is new and has never made its own engines – there is no heritage and, even so, the engines are not just off-the-shelf like the AMG V8 is. Would a Ferrari be a Ferrari if it had an AMG engine? Of course not. No different for Aston Martin.
Speedraser said:
Chris, I do know what is under the hood (bonnet in the UK ). I want to know. It's a vital part of what makes cars interesting to me, and for me there is no part that is more important than the engine. While I want the things you touch to be bespoke -- switchgear, etc – the stuff that really matters to me is what the car itself is – the platform/structure to me is akin to the bones, the engine is the heart. Does anyone say the Newport Pagnell V8 or Vanquish aren't real Astons because they have Jaguar switchgear in the center stack? No. The engine and the platform are the things that, more than anything else, form the foundation and soul of the car IMO and, therefore, must be unique to Aston. Otherwise, one could put an Aston badge on anything and call it an Aston. I think making an Aston requires much more than the stuff on the surface.
Aston has a very long and great history of making its own engines. Those other cars you mention never made their own engines. Further, the McLaren F1 had a BESPOKE engine that was made by BMW for the F1 only -- no BMW uses that engine. Pagani is new and has never made its own engines – there is no heritage and, even so, the engines are not just off-the-shelf like the AMG V8 is. Would a Ferrari be a Ferrari if it had an AMG engine? Of course not. No different for Aston Martin.
From the posts on the 2 threads that relate to this, I think we've all got your persepective! Like it or not Aston has not got the R&D budget to develop its own engines. It has, however picked probably the best engines to work with &, judging by the reviews & sales figures with the DB11, they have been proved right. There is no reason to assume that the new Vantage will be anything other than a success, assuring the future of the company. It's either this strategy or disappear into obscurity! I say bravo & continue.). I want to know. It's a vital part of what makes cars interesting to me, and for me there is no part that is more important than the engine. While I want the things you touch to be bespoke -- switchgear, etc – the stuff that really matters to me is what the car itself is – the platform/structure to me is akin to the bones, the engine is the heart. Does anyone say the Newport Pagnell V8 or Vanquish aren't real Astons because they have Jaguar switchgear in the center stack? No. The engine and the platform are the things that, more than anything else, form the foundation and soul of the car IMO and, therefore, must be unique to Aston. Otherwise, one could put an Aston badge on anything and call it an Aston. I think making an Aston requires much more than the stuff on the surface.Aston has a very long and great history of making its own engines. Those other cars you mention never made their own engines. Further, the McLaren F1 had a BESPOKE engine that was made by BMW for the F1 only -- no BMW uses that engine. Pagani is new and has never made its own engines – there is no heritage and, even so, the engines are not just off-the-shelf like the AMG V8 is. Would a Ferrari be a Ferrari if it had an AMG engine? Of course not. No different for Aston Martin.
HBradley said:
From the posts on the 2 threads that relate to this, I think we've all got your persepective! Like it or not Aston has not got the R&D budget to develop its own engines. It has, however picked probably the best engines to work with &, judging by the reviews & sales figures with the DB11, they have been proved right. There is no reason to assume that the new Vantage will be anything other than a success, assuring the future of the company. It's either this strategy or disappear into obscurity! I say bravo & continue.
I agree HB Speedraser has made his views very clear but Aston's R&D funds are not limitless and I guess they have to choose carefully where they are used. However, do not really understand your comments about the DB11. All the reviews at the moment are about the V12 engined car which is an Aston engine, not an AMG. The AMG engine only comes in a V8 and has just been announced for use in the DB11 and will be used in the Vantage. I do think it will be a great success and for me, and many others, it will not be a great issue. Apologies if I misunderstood the point you were making.HBradley said:
Speedraser said:
Chris, I do know what is under the hood (bonnet in the UK ). I want to know. It's a vital part of what makes cars interesting to me, and for me there is no part that is more important than the engine. While I want the things you touch to be bespoke -- switchgear, etc – the stuff that really matters to me is what the car itself is – the platform/structure to me is akin to the bones, the engine is the heart. Does anyone say the Newport Pagnell V8 or Vanquish aren't real Astons because they have Jaguar switchgear in the center stack? No. The engine and the platform are the things that, more than anything else, form the foundation and soul of the car IMO and, therefore, must be unique to Aston. Otherwise, one could put an Aston badge on anything and call it an Aston. I think making an Aston requires much more than the stuff on the surface.
Aston has a very long and great history of making its own engines. Those other cars you mention never made their own engines. Further, the McLaren F1 had a BESPOKE engine that was made by BMW for the F1 only -- no BMW uses that engine. Pagani is new and has never made its own engines – there is no heritage and, even so, the engines are not just off-the-shelf like the AMG V8 is. Would a Ferrari be a Ferrari if it had an AMG engine? Of course not. No different for Aston Martin.
From the posts on the 2 threads that relate to this, I think we've all got your persepective! Like it or not Aston has not got the R&D budget to develop its own engines. It has, however picked probably the best engines to work with &, judging by the reviews & sales figures with the DB11, they have been proved right. There is no reason to assume that the new Vantage will be anything other than a success, assuring the future of the company. It's either this strategy or disappear into obscurity! I say bravo & continue.). I want to know. It's a vital part of what makes cars interesting to me, and for me there is no part that is more important than the engine. While I want the things you touch to be bespoke -- switchgear, etc – the stuff that really matters to me is what the car itself is – the platform/structure to me is akin to the bones, the engine is the heart. Does anyone say the Newport Pagnell V8 or Vanquish aren't real Astons because they have Jaguar switchgear in the center stack? No. The engine and the platform are the things that, more than anything else, form the foundation and soul of the car IMO and, therefore, must be unique to Aston. Otherwise, one could put an Aston badge on anything and call it an Aston. I think making an Aston requires much more than the stuff on the surface.Aston has a very long and great history of making its own engines. Those other cars you mention never made their own engines. Further, the McLaren F1 had a BESPOKE engine that was made by BMW for the F1 only -- no BMW uses that engine. Pagani is new and has never made its own engines – there is no heritage and, even so, the engines are not just off-the-shelf like the AMG V8 is. Would a Ferrari be a Ferrari if it had an AMG engine? Of course not. No different for Aston Martin.
If some people won't buy an Aston with an AMG based engine, so be it but we should really all be looking forward not back
Meanwhile there were many on here assuming vociferously that the entire drivetrain would be lifted over including sump, intakes, gearbox, ECU, etc. We can now see that is not the case (although some people including journos persist in talking about a DSG box appearing, for no apparent reason whatsoever). Some of those who moaned Aston would take the whole drivetrain and inject nothing unique into the equation are now moaning that Aston have put a different sump in.
Surely it is time to wait for the reviews of this engine in DB11 and see firstly what is said about driving characteristics (including noise) and secondly, wait for a little more detailed info on the technical side about the specifics of what Aston have done differently to the base powerplant ?
An interesting debate and one where the feelings of owners or prospective owners have equal relevance.
As some have said the finances of AM dictate that they are not able to afford to develop a bespoke engine,however many wish it were able to do so.
That being the case I like to consider the whole package when making my decision.
If the new models are going to make for a more enjoyable motoring experience with the,very best "bought in engine" and appropriate levels of reliability ,fuel efficiency,comfort etc.then,for me,that's a good thing.
When I consider the whole package it is important to me that the car looks like an AM with stying that denotes it as a British sports car / GT and therefore it's design heritage is applicable.
Also the little bespoke touches that raise it above other vehicles.
For instance I was upset to read that they have ditched the beautiful clock for a digital one and that the quality of the leather upholstery was being compromised.
I can absolutely understand Speedrasers objections to having an engine that is not made by AM,although regrettable,it would not stop me buying one,all other things being equal,but I accept that I am nowhere near a petrolhead as he is.
With all the many new restrictions on fuel types and efficiencies unfortunately the days are numbered for old fashioned grunt.
I apologise if I have missed the point with my comments as this subject is way ahead of my pay grade.
As some have said the finances of AM dictate that they are not able to afford to develop a bespoke engine,however many wish it were able to do so.
That being the case I like to consider the whole package when making my decision.
If the new models are going to make for a more enjoyable motoring experience with the,very best "bought in engine" and appropriate levels of reliability ,fuel efficiency,comfort etc.then,for me,that's a good thing.
When I consider the whole package it is important to me that the car looks like an AM with stying that denotes it as a British sports car / GT and therefore it's design heritage is applicable.
Also the little bespoke touches that raise it above other vehicles.
For instance I was upset to read that they have ditched the beautiful clock for a digital one and that the quality of the leather upholstery was being compromised.
I can absolutely understand Speedrasers objections to having an engine that is not made by AM,although regrettable,it would not stop me buying one,all other things being equal,but I accept that I am nowhere near a petrolhead as he is.
With all the many new restrictions on fuel types and efficiencies unfortunately the days are numbered for old fashioned grunt.
I apologise if I have missed the point with my comments as this subject is way ahead of my pay grade.
Edited by avinalarf on Thursday 29th June 11:43
I believe the previous engines were Ford derived, and developed by Cosworth. I think it's been a long time before Aston have truly developed their own engine, in house.
I'd be happy with a bespoke engine developed by Cosworth for AM, even if based on an existing block.
Would you really want an engine developed internally by a company, when they have no actual experience of doing the job?
As has been said, this would be economically impractical with today's emissions and economy concerns. And it would be unreliable.
I'd be happy with a bespoke engine developed by Cosworth for AM, even if based on an existing block.
Would you really want an engine developed internally by a company, when they have no actual experience of doing the job?
As has been said, this would be economically impractical with today's emissions and economy concerns. And it would be unreliable.
Johnny42 said:
I believe the previous engines were Ford derived, and developed by Cosworth. I think it's been a long time before Aston have truly developed their own engine, in house.
I'd be happy with a bespoke engine developed by Cosworth for AM, even if based on an existing block.
Would you really want an engine developed internally by a company, when they have no actual experience of doing the job?
As has been said, this would be economically impractical with today's emissions and economy concerns. And it would be unreliable.
TVR are doing this very thing with cosworth, does that make it a TVR engine? I'd be happy with a bespoke engine developed by Cosworth for AM, even if based on an existing block.
Would you really want an engine developed internally by a company, when they have no actual experience of doing the job?
As has been said, this would be economically impractical with today's emissions and economy concerns. And it would be unreliable.
If so, the using the base AMG engine but changing manifolds and tuning to create character is the same . It needs to feel different to AMG installations, i.e. Response, noise, power curve.
Just don't make it sound like an AMG, too uncultured in my book
t, but food for discussion?Johnny42 said:
I believe the previous engines were Ford derived, and developed by Cosworth.
I think it's been a long time before Aston have truly developed their own engine, in house.
I think it's been a long time before Aston have truly developed their own engine, in house.
You are quite right bar one tiny aspect.
I think I am correct to say, the V8 was Jaguar derived, and that their engine was in use (as a 4·2 litre) prior to Ford buying Jaguar.
The V12 was originally a Ford engine placed in a concept car, but never used in any production Ford.
As you say, neither were Aston developed. I am not sure exactly when Jaguar ceased using their V8, but we have been able to enjoy the feeling, that the engines in our cars are only used in Aston Martins. We all know why that has to end, but a warm feeling while it lasted.
Both engines have been/are assembled in Germany (I do know the 5.2 V12 block is made in England), so I suppose there will be no change regarding the country of origin.
At least the Mercedes Formula One engines are made in England. - Funny old world.
http://www.autoguide.com/auto-news/2017/06/patent-...
New Vantage? Looks like no invisible Gurney flap
!
New Vantage? Looks like no invisible Gurney flap
!Edited by V8 Vantage GT on Thursday 29th June 18:29
V8 Vantage GT said:
http://www.autoguide.com/auto-news/2017/06/patent-...
New Vantage? Looks like no invisible Gurney flap!
That's looking better.New Vantage? Looks like no invisible Gurney flap
!Edited by V8 Vantage GT on Thursday 29th June 18:29
Seems like Andy took some of my advice.
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