AML - Stock Market Listing

[AMV93]

W12GT said:

It would probably be better if BMW took over. They ve done an amazing job with Mini and Rolls Royce. It would also give then a foot in the door with a true performance car. Aston use Alphera for finance .which is owned by BMW.

Now there's a curveball I hadn't really thought about before. Everyone defaults to Mercedes or 'The Chinese' as being potential buyers, however BMW could be a great fit.

They have their own turbo V8 (currently also being used in JLR products), and a strong lineup of hybrid and EV's. They definitely know how to respect a brand's heritage as evidenced by Mini and RR as has been said, and whereas Mercedes does have competing products in the G Wagen, AMG GT and perhaps the S Class coupe, BMW arguably don't. Their sports/GT coupe tops out at the M4 now the M8 is discontinued, and I don't think anyone would put the XM in the same conversation as a DBX or G Wagen.

Although I guess if they were sniffing around we would know about it by now, and Mercedes would probably ensure it didn't happen. They also sold Land Rover previously and never went after Jaguar when perhaps they could have.

[Jon39]

AstonZagato said:

Sadly, the Chinese don't have a great history of respecting brand heritage when purchasing British car companies.

Yes, exactly the worry for all passionate Aston Martin enthusiasts.

Introducing the 2028 Aston Martin Vanquong GT.

[SSO]

AMVSVNick said:

AstonZagato said:

Sadly, the Chinese don't have a great history of respecting brand heritage when purchasing British car companies.

IMHO Geely did a pretty good job with the London Black Cab

Apparently Geely is no longer interested. They have enough other problems right now.

[Jon39]

SSO said:

AMVSVNick said:

AstonZagato said:

Sadly, the Chinese don't have a great history of respecting brand heritage when purchasing British car companies.

IMHO Geely did a pretty good job with the London Black Cab

Apparently Geely is no longer interested. They have enough other problems right now.

I don't think Mercedes-Benz would be interested either.

The did not pay for their Aston Martin shareholding, those newly issued shares were allocated to M-B as part of the technology agreement.
They also revealed little interest by not taking up a rights issue, therefore reducing their percentage holding in AML.

Mercedes-Benz also have their own business difficulties, with reduced sales in various world markets, particularly China and also the weak sales of their EV range, which had cost €billions to develop.

[Minglar]

SSO said:

AMVSVNick said:

AstonZagato said:

Sadly, the Chinese don't have a great history of respecting brand heritage when purchasing British car companies.

IMHO Geely did a pretty good job with the London Black Cab

Apparently Geely is no longer interested. They have enough other problems right now.

It’s possible that no large motor manufacturer would be that interested anymore considering the challenges the automotive industry is currently facing, unless of course AML could be snapped up for a bargain basement cheap price. Based on their previous track records VW and BMW have a proven history in enhancing and developing smaller niche manufacturers but their acquisitions were made many years ago, when the world was a very different place. Car manufacturing in Germany is facing great difficulties, so if Geely is not an option, perhaps we should also rule out Mercedes Benz despite their holding. Someone likened AML to a football (or soccer if you prefer) team earlier in this thread, so my gut feeling is PIF comes to the rescue. Two billion dollars or thereabouts to buy the company and pay off the debt is a drop in the ocean to them considering their AUM. It’s fairly evident that without another large cash injection or an entire bailout things surely cannot continue as they are. The 2018 IPO will be remembered as a ground breaking event in the chequered history of AML, for all the wrong reasons. Very sad times indeed.

BRM.

[LTP]

W12GT said:

It would probably be better if BMW took over. They ve done an amazing job with Mini and Rolls Royce. It would also give then a foot in the door with a true performance car. Aston use Alphera for finance .which is owned by BMW.

If BMW did that it would probably mean no cars for 2 years or more, as I can't believe Mercedes would allow BMW to access their technology that's in the current Astons - and it's not just the engines; it's the entire electrical architecture, as well as the HVAC and steering column (plus probably multiple other parts)

[Thankyou4calling]

One things for sure. AML aren't in any position to be fussy who they get into bed with.

I can't see why any established car firm would buy it for the tech.

The real value lies in the name which might even bring players such as LVMH, Gucci Etc into play.

[Simpo Two]

Thankyou4calling said:

The real value lies in the name which might even bring players such as LVMH, Gucci Etc into play.

I can see the advert now: 'The world's most expensive handbag now comes with a free Aston Martin'.

Though as LVMH stands for Moët Hennessy Louis Vuitton which is champagne, cognac and luggage maybe you can just roll them all together

[skeeterm5]

Simpo Two said:

I can see the advert now: 'The world's most expensive handbag now comes with a free Aston Martin'.

Though as LVMH stands for Moët Hennessy Louis Vuitton which is champagne, cognac and luggage maybe you can just roll them all together

Personally I can’t see why anybody would be interested given the debt mountain unless that was cleared as part of a sale, but in that instance why would LS sell?

[V8 Minotaur]

The USP there would be for those of a with a Vantage with no glove box.

[LooneyTunes]

Minglar said:

so my gut feeling is PIF comes to the rescue. Two billion dollars or thereabouts to buy the company and pay off the debt is a drop in the ocean to them considering their AUM.

I’ve not seen anything to suggest that AML’s corporate situation aligns well with their style of investment.

[Minglar]

LooneyTunes said:

Minglar said:

so my gut feeling is PIF comes to the rescue. Two billion dollars or thereabouts to buy the company and pay off the debt is a drop in the ocean to them considering their AUM.

I ve not seen anything to suggest that AML s corporate situation aligns well with their style of investment.

I think you’re missing the point a little. Which companies do you think AMLs corporate situation aligns with or appeals to? It’s more a case of what they can do with it going forward, as they have done with Newcastle United for example. Things cannot continue as they are that’s for sure, and I would hope no one wants to see the AML name disappear forever. We shall see. BRM.

[ferrisbueller]

LTP said:

W12GT said:

It would probably be better if BMW took over. They ve done an amazing job with Mini and Rolls Royce. It would also give then a foot in the door with a true performance car. Aston use Alphera for finance .which is owned by BMW.

If BMW did that it would probably mean no cars for 2 years or more, as I can't believe Mercedes would allow BMW to access their technology that's in the current Astons - and it's not just the engines; it's the entire electrical architecture, as well as the HVAC and steering column (plus probably multiple other parts)

Do you mean Mercedes wouldn't want BMW to see their IP?
There's absolutely nothing to stop one manufacturer buying another's product to tear it apart and see what they can learn. I'd be amazed if BMW and Mercedes didn't have intimate knowledge of each other's products. I've heard tales of cars being hired and stripped.
See also; The entire Chinese automotive sector (with some casual theft of IP via whatever other means. Possibly.)
AIUI some manufacturers used to cut through the bullst and just send each other cars.

[AstonZagato]

LooneyTunes said:

Minglar said:

so my gut feeling is PIF comes to the rescue. Two billion dollars or thereabouts to buy the company and pay off the debt is a drop in the ocean to them considering their AUM.

I ve not seen anything to suggest that AML s corporate situation aligns well with their style of investment.

Quite. PIF can be interested in situations that don't immediately make financial sense if they involve transferring technology, know-how, or manufacturing to Saudi. Aston can't really do any of that.

[LooneyTunes]

Minglar said:

LooneyTunes said:

Minglar said:

so my gut feeling is PIF comes to the rescue. Two billion dollars or thereabouts to buy the company and pay off the debt is a drop in the ocean to them considering their AUM.

I ve not seen anything to suggest that AML s corporate situation aligns well with their style of investment.

I think you re missing the point a little. Which companies do you think AMLs corporate situation aligns with or appeals to? It s more a case of what they can do with it going forward, as they have done with Newcastle United for example. Things cannot continue as they are that s for sure, and I would hope no one wants to see the AML name disappear forever. We shall see. BRM.

For an investor, rather than a trade acquirer, it’s an asset stripping/turnaround situation. I would be stunned if PIF had the appetite for that with AML.

[ferrisbueller]

AstonZagato said:

LooneyTunes said:

Minglar said:

so my gut feeling is PIF comes to the rescue. Two billion dollars or thereabouts to buy the company and pay off the debt is a drop in the ocean to them considering their AUM.

I ve not seen anything to suggest that AML s corporate situation aligns well with their style of investment.

Quite. PIF can be interested in situations that don't immediately make financial sense if they involve transferring technology, know-how, or manufacturing to Saudi. Aston can't really do any of that.

PIF already own 20% plus the arrangement with Lucid.

[LooneyTunes]

ferrisbueller said:

PIF already own 20% plus the arrangement with Lucid.

Those were decisions made at the time of those investments. The investment case, and what would be needed from an investor, is now very different.

[LTP]

ferrisbueller said:

Do you mean Mercedes wouldn't want BMW to see their IP?
There's absolutely nothing to stop one manufacturer buying another's product to tear it apart and see what they can learn. I'd be amazed if BMW and Mercedes didn't have intimate knowledge of each other's products. I've heard tales of cars being hired and stripped.
See also; The entire Chinese automotive sector (with some casual theft of IP via whatever other means. Possibly.)
AIUI some manufacturers used to cut through the bullst and just send each other cars.

No, I fully agree. There used to be an agreement where manufacturers provided cars to each other to avoid the old practice of buying an early model then having to sell it. There's even organisations like Munro & Associates who will buy and completely tear down a car, analyse it from a manufacturing efficiency (lean) viewpoint, then sell you the reports.

But it's one thing to see how many ECU's and how much wiring, or switches vs software, or what suspension design, and something completely different to work out how it's made and how it works, especially when it comes to software. To make its cars work AML has to know (at least to some level) how the MB electrical architecture actually works. That's not something they'd like being bandied about

Edited by LTP on Friday 27th February 19:39

[AMVSVNick]

I’m sorry to ask a stupid question as I have no time to study the financials.

Would AML make a profit if they had zero debt?

[Dewi 2]

ferrisbueller said:

Do you mean Mercedes wouldn't want BMW to see their IP?
There's absolutely nothing to stop one manufacturer buying another's product to tear it apart and see what they can learn. I'd be amazed if BMW and Mercedes didn't have intimate knowledge of each other's products. I've heard tales of cars being hired and stripped.

Many years ago there were stories about Ford buying a Mini and then dismantling the entire car.
The only thing that they were able to learn, was that BMC cannot be making a profit from the model.


For amusement, I occasionally ask my Mercedes voice command a question.

Question; "Do you like BMW cars?"
Reply; "We admire all of our competitor's cars."

Very diplomatic.
I cannot see the lady who replies, but there might be gritted teeth involved.