AML - Stock Market Listing

[SSO]

Jon39 said:

SSO said:

AMVSVNick said:

AstonZagato said:

Sadly, the Chinese don't have a great history of respecting brand heritage when purchasing British car companies.

IMHO Geely did a pretty good job with the London Black Cab

Apparently Geely is no longer interested. They have enough other problems right now.

I don't think Mercedes-Benz would be interested either.

The did not pay for their Aston Martin shareholding, those newly issued shares were allocated to M-B as part of the technology agreement.
They also revealed little interest by not taking up a rights issue, therefore reducing their percentage holding in AML.

Mercedes-Benz also have their own business difficulties, with reduced sales in various world markets, particularly China and also the weak sales of their EV range, which had cost billions to develop.

They are not. Haven't been for a few years now.

[silentbrown]

AMV93 said:

Their sports/GT coupe tops out at the M4 now the M8 is discontinued, and I don't think anyone would put the XM in the same conversation as a DBX or G Wagen.

Did you forget about Bentley/Bentayga?

And there's the issue of MB engines being used...

[Jon39]

AMVSVNick said:

I m sorry to ask a stupid question as I have no time to study the financials.

Would AML make a profit if they had zero debt?

Not for Year 2025.

Pre-tax loss ................................ £363.9 million ............. ( £67,000 loss on every car sold )
Total debt interest ...................... £170.6 million

Therefore excl. debt interest ..... £193.3 million loss. .... ( £35,000 loss on every car sold )

[AMVSVNick]

Jon39 said:

AMVSVNick said:

I m sorry to ask a stupid question as I have no time to study the financials.

Would AML make a profit if they had zero debt?

Not for Year 2025.

Pre-tax loss ................................ £363.9 million ............. ( £67,000 loss on every car sold )
Total debt interest ...................... £170.6 million

Therefore excl. debt interest ..... £193.3 million loss. .... ( £35,000 loss on every car sold )

Thank you, Jon.

What a horror.

[Jon39]

The present AML market capitalisation is £468 million.

However, that is not the lowest it has ever been.
During the pandemic, the lowest market capitalisation was, £349 million.

No problem then. Repeat what has happened before. Just need another speech about the rosie future, then do a capital raise.

[Simpo Two]

Jon39 said:

Pre-tax loss ................................ £363.9 million ............. ( £67,000 loss on every car sold )
Total debt interest ...................... £170.6 million

Therefore excl. debt interest ..... £193.3 million loss. .... ( £35,000 loss on every car sold )

Which bit of 'cut costs' are they not understanding? It reads like The Apprentice but with more noughts on.

[acer12]

Jon39 said:

The present AML market capitalisation is £468 million.

However, that is not the lowest it has ever been.
During the pandemic, the lowest market capitalisation was, £349 million.

No problem then. Repeat what has happened before. Just need another speech about the rosie future, then do a capital raise.

Very insightful, it would be interesting if you could also add the debt at each stage as I understand this has continued to grow. The reason I say this is it looks like the shares are becoming worthless as debt increases and the underlying business model continues to not deliver (while model lineup is really good, sales are not) and it is bleeding cash, obviously debt would have preferential lien on any value and on the far end the shareholders would be last (after HMRC, other guanrantees etc). Is it only a matter of time before the next rights issue / evenutal administration unless there is a fundamental change to structure. Also each time the debt comes up for renewal, the company is in a worse state so that translates to higher and more unstainable interest rates.

[Jon39]

acer12 said:

Jon39 said:

The present AML market capitalisation is £468 million.

However, that is not the lowest it has ever been.
During the pandemic, the lowest market capitalisation was, £349 million.

No problem then. Repeat what has happened before. Just need another speech about the rosie future, then do a capital raise.

Very insightful, it would be interesting if you could also add the debt at each stage as I understand this has continued to grow. The reason I say this is it looks like the shares are becoming worthless as debt increases and the underlying business model continues to not deliver (while model lineup is really good, sales are not) and it is bleeding cash, obviously debt would have preferential lien on any value and on the far end the shareholders would be last (after HMRC, other guanrantees etc). Is it only a matter of time before the next rights issue / evenutal administration unless there is a fundamental change to structure. Also each time the debt comes up for renewal, the company is in a worse state so that translates to higher and more unstainable interest rates.

I always try to research and answer questions Mike, but sunshine and garden equals busy today.

Your answers post IPO should be here; https://find-and-update.company-information.servic...

Before IPO here; https://find-and-update.company-information.servic...

Some of the accounts during the Ford ownership era are interesting.

The interest rates on present debt are high. Wonder if the Yew Tree Consortium might be amongst the bond holders?

[Ghini2]

Wow, this SP.. resistance at 40.... just wow.. Remember when the resistance was at 100? Its been a great year for AML...

This whole selling AM F1 naming rights to Stroll his private F1 team is just atrocious. That schmuck gets away with everything. I have said this many times before over the past couple of years: its a conflict of interest and his main objective is to make good money of the F1 team, not AML. Nobody stopped him. I wonder when people start to see he is not helping AML the company but using it. Its a big play but he is playing.

Valhalla: those numbers are just wholesales and apparently they also have a disappointing margin because total margin only went down. Imagine their financial situation without those Valhalla paper sales. In the past AML leaned on specials to stay alive, that needed to change but not in this direction.....

I just read that SSO report and one thing was interesting to mention here as well: the 250M outstanding liability to Lucid for EV tech and components. On paper this basically means AML is bankrupt without that 50M from Stroll for the F1 naming rights. Thats probably how he got them. It will be interesting to see how generous Lucid (PIF) is or if they will use this to get control over the company.

[KevinBird]

Ghini2 said:

Wow, this SP.. resistance at 40.... just wow.. Remember when the resistance was at 100? Its been a great year for AML...

This whole selling AM F1 naming rights to Stroll his private F1 team is just atrocious. That schmuck gets away with everything. I have said this many times before over the past couple of years: its a conflict of interest and his main objective is to make good money of the F1 team, not AML. Nobody stopped him. I wonder when people start to see he is not helping AML the company but using it. Its a big play but he is playing.

Valhalla: those numbers are just wholesales and apparently they also have a disappointing margin because total margin only went down. Imagine their financial situation without those Valhalla paper sales. In the past AML leaned on specials to stay alive, that needed to change but not in this direction.....

I just read that SSO report and one thing was interesting to mention here as well: the 250M outstanding liability to Lucid for EV tech and components. On paper this basically means AML is bankrupt without that 50M from Stroll for the F1 naming rights. Thats probably how he got them. It will be interesting to see how generous Lucid (PIF) is or if they will use this to get control over the company.

In a nut shell

[Jon39]

How sad.

Would you buy Aston Martin for £400 million,
or
you could pay almost twice as much for W H Smith?

W H Smith is just in profit,
if you call £2 million pre-tax, after receiving £1.5 billion in the till, profitable.

[Minglar]

Jon39 said:

How sad.

Would you buy Aston Martin for £400 million,
or
you could pay almost twice as much for W H Smith?

W H Smith is just in profit,
if you call £2 million pre-tax, after receiving £1.5 billion in the till, profitable.

Yes it’s very sad to see Jon. The AML SP has fallen roughly 30% since last weeks FY 2025 Results were released and the Market Cap of AML must be very close to the lowest levels seen in late 2019 / early 2020 when LS and YT stepped in. The amount of money that has been injected in to the business and the associated debt that has been taken on is quite astonishing, but without it the current range of cars, plus specials like Valhalla etc, wouldn’t have been made. Not much else to say really.

BRM.

[alscar]

Jon39 said:

How sad.

Would you buy Aston Martin for £400 million,
or
you could pay almost twice as much for W H Smith?

W H Smith is just in profit,
if you call £2 million pre-tax, after receiving £1.5 billion in the till, profitable.

At least the AM name is still being used - WH Smith is no more on the High St - replaced by TG Jones so a bit of a rebranding exercise now needed.

[Jon39]

alscar said:

At least the AM name is still being used - WH Smith is no more on the High St - replaced by TG Jones so a bit of a rebranding exercise now needed.

The business that I referred to still has the W H Smith name.
It is the continuing retained part, with sales outlets at motorway service stations, railway stations and airports (the more attractive impulse buy margins).
With online news and online books, their business model might now be called Extra Mature.

I feel sorry for firms such as Kodak and Royal Mail, where their activities are so rapidly made obsolete.

I recently applied for a job at Royal Mail.
Have just received their letter confirming my start date.
It was at the begining of last month.

There must be quite a few long standing businesses, that have reacted in time to major trade changes.
Smiths is one that I can think of. The firm that was famous for making clocks, watches and automobile instruments.
Continuing with those products would have resulted in failure, but they are now a big player in advanced aeronautical engineering. Another British success, even though so many doomsters say we don't make anything anymore.

[Jazzy Jag]

Wow.

Dipped to 41.32p Yesterday and currently 41.78p.

I think, it's only nostalgia, ego and perception that is keeping AML alive.

Really feel for the staff members who were encouraged to but at the peak, some of whom remortgaged houses to get in on the floatation.

[Frankychops]

Jon39 said:

How sad.

Would you buy Aston Martin for £400 million,
or
you could pay almost twice as much for W H Smith?

W H Smith is just in profit,
if you call £2 million pre-tax, after receiving £1.5 billion in the till, profitable.

Ego says AM, reality says W H Smith.

[SpeckledJim]

Jazzy Jag said:

Wow.

Dipped to 41.32p Yesterday and currently 41.78p.

I think, it's only nostalgia, ego and perception that is keeping AML alive.

Really feel for the staff members who were encouraged to but at the peak, some of whom remortgaged houses to get in on the floatation.

I hope Palmer is losing plenty of sleep over that, but I suspect he isn't.

[LTP]

Jazzy Jag said:

Wow.Really feel for the staff members who were encouraged to but at the peak, some of whom remortgaged houses to get in on the floatation.

Never ceases to amaze me how this canard grows with the retelling (unless you have some evidence?) - at the time it was people using the funds for their bathroom makeover; now it's remortgaging. Nobody was "encouraged" and if anyone remortgages their primary home to invest in a share floatation then, as the old adage goes, you should never invest funds in a speculation that you can't afford to lose. This is why I never owned any AML shares.

SpeckledJim said:

I hope Palmer is losing plenty of sleep over that, but I suspect he isn't.

Just as a reminder, Andy Palmer had left AML before the timeline of the chart below starts.



£7 is 37% of the initial £19 price, and that took c.3 years; 43p is 6% of 700p over the next 5 years

Edited by LTP on Thursday 12th March 13:58

[Minglar]

LTP, I think you may need to check some of your data there as £7 in July 2021 is not the same as £7 compared to the IPO launch price because there was a 1/20 stock split in December 2020. AP left in May 2020, shortly after LS/YT invested. Towards the end of 2019 when the stupid leasing deals were being offered on new Vantage the AML SP had by then shed circa 95% of its IPO launch value. So I would question your 37% quote. BRM.

[alscar]

LTP said:

Jazzy Jag said:

Wow.Really feel for the staff members who were encouraged to but at the peak, some of whom remortgaged houses to get in on the floatation.

Never ceases to amaze me how this canard grows with the retelling (unless you have some evidence?) - at the time it was people using the funds for their bathroom makeover; now it's remortgaging. Nobody was "encouraged" and if anyone remortgages their primary home to invest in a share floatation then, as the old adage goes, you should never invest funds in a speculation that you can't afford to lose. This is why I never owned any AML shares.

Edited by LTP on Thursday 12th March 13:58

I don’t know about remortgaging but some staff ( perhaps more junior and those that knew no better ) were “encouraged “ or at least strongly suggested a good idea to buy shares - I heard this via 2 separate managers plus another individual well connected.
Some supposedly borrowed money to facilitate this.
No idea whether 100% true but all individuals would have zero reason to “ not be truthful “.