New DBS Superleggera

[AstonV]

Grill from the AMR pro.

[Jon39]

hornbaek said:

I think that buying a new (old tech) car now could just be the end of an era thing, and I don't mean this in a positive value enhancing sense. Electric drivetrains are taking over and we might just get stuck with a dinosaur.

This aspect is all very difficult for car buyers, particularly when considering what seems to happen with most electronic products.

Buying a Tesla today, might turn out to be the equivalent of buying a Commodore 64 personal computer, or a new cassette player in 1982.
Brilliant and innovative products, but just the beginning of an evolution and not wanted, a few years after their introduction.

Edited by Jon39 on Sunday 10th June 07:51

[anonymous-user]

Jon39 said:

This aspect is all very difficult for car buyers, particularly when considering what seems to happen with most electronic products.

Buying a Tesla today, might turn out to be the equivalent of buying a Commodore 64 personal computer, or a new cassette player in 1982.
Brilliant and innovative products, but just the beginning of an evolution and not wanted, a few years after their introduction.

Edited by Jon39 on Sunday 10th June 07:51

My bmw dealer talked me out of buying the i3 the other day. Put simply he said the battery will only do x charges until it dies, and because the battery occupies the entire floorpan of the car it will make the car more or less scrap when that happens. Maybe its not strictly true but it was compelling enough to pop next door and get a petrol mini instead . For the wife of course.

The picture of the front of the Superleggera looks very feminine to me, cant quite put my finger on why.

[Beefmeister]

soofsayer said:

My bmw dealer talked me out of buying the i3 the other day. Put simply he said the battery will only do x charges until it dies, and because the battery occupies the entire floorpan of the car it will make the car more or less scrap when that happens. Maybe its not strictly true but it was compelling enough to pop next door and get a petrol mini instead . For the wife of course.

The picture of the front of the Superleggera looks very feminine to me, cant quite put my finger on why.

That salesman should be fired.

[Jon39]

Beefmeister said:

soofsayer said:

My bmw dealer talked me out of buying the i3 the other day. Put simply he said the battery will only do x charges until it dies, and because the battery occupies the entire floorpan of the car it will make the car more or less scrap when that happens. Maybe its not strictly true but it was compelling enough to pop next door and get a petrol mini instead . For the wife of course.

The picture of the front of the Superleggera looks very feminine to me, cant quite put my finger on why.

That salesman should be fired.

Perhaps the opposite though.
Gave advice (we don't know whether it is true), which later might be appreciated and rewarded.

Avoided an existing customer becoming upset and losing faith in the brand, then in the future, sells a much higher priced top of the range BMW (model whatever).

Might have been forward thinking, or perhaps that dealer cannot obtain any i3s.

Edited by Jon39 on Sunday 10th June 13:29

[Beefmeister]

Jon39 said:

Perhaps the opposite though.
Gave advice (we don't know whether it is true), which later might be appreciated and rewarded.

Avoided an existing customer becoming upset and losing faith in the brand, then in the future, sells a much higher priced top of the range BMW (model whatever).

Might have been forward thinking, or perhaps that dealer cannot obtain any i3s.

Edited by Jon39 on Sunday 10th June 13:29

No, should be fired because he was speaking bks.

[AstonV]

It is true. Batteries have a limited number of charges. They will not charge indefinitely. The chances of you owning that car for that long are slim though. Battery technology is still the weak link in electric cars.

[Beefmeister]

We’re going off the point slightly, but that salesman clearly had no clue about his product. The 2017 refreshed i3 has a battery guarantee. They guarantee it will hold at least 80% charge for 8rs or 100,000 miles. And after that point it’s a gradual tail off. There’s a 2014 i3 in norway with 285,000 miles on it which is still holding at 65% capacity and that is running in the worst conditions possible for an EV.

[Jon39]

Beefmeister said:

We’re going off the point slightly, but that salesman clearly had no clue about his product. The 2017 refreshed i3 has a battery guarantee. They guarantee it will hold at least 80% charge for 8rs or 100,000 miles. And after that point it’s a gradual tail off. There’s a 2014 i3 in norway with 285,000 miles on it which is still holding at 65% capacity and that is running in the worst conditions possible for an EV.

That guarantee sounds about as good, as the Mercedes-Benz 30 year rust and breakdown guarantee.
Some models were later found to be prone to wheel arch rust, and M-B refused to pay.
They took the attitude - you (little person) try and sue us.

From your description, anyone who tends to buy two to three year old cars (half price), then keeps them until they are more than 8 years old, should not buy a BMW i3 then.

Buying a DBS Superleggera, might be much more fun.

[anonymous-user]

Jon39 said:

That guarantee sounds about as good, as the Mercedes-Benz 30 year rust and breakdown guarantee.
Some models were later found to be prone to wheel arch rust, and M-B refused to pay.
They took the attitude - you (little person) try and sue us.

From your description, anyone who tends to buy two to three year old cars (half price), then keeps them until they are more than 8 years old, should not buy a BMW i3 then.

Buying a DBS Superleggera, might be much more fun.

I do agree with this about MB, having got the t-shirt myself on the 30 year rust warranty, and your comment about it perhaps being a canny move not selling me an i3, the salesman is eyeing me up to purchase the 8 series when it comes out (I doubt I will).

[12pack]

Beefmeister said:

That salesman should be fired.

Indeed.
Well off topic but the main difference that makes battery EV's viable today (vs. when they were invented -before ICE cars) is the electronics that manage the batteries. Full EV drive trains will far outlast internal combustion engines. There is well published data for Teslas generally exceeding 200,000 miles and going strong. Just like laptop batteries (which they are, but with better management,) they will give a 10% drop-off after 1000 cycles. Which means a 30 mile reduction in range after 300,000 miles. And they come with 8 year warranties. Works for me.

[Jon39]

12pack said:

Well off topic but the main difference that makes battery EV's viable today (vs. when they were invented -before ICE cars) is the electronics that manage the batteries. Full EV drive trains will far outlast internal combustion engines. There is well published data for Teslas generally exceeding 200,000 miles and going strong. Just like laptop batteries (which they are, but with better management,) they will give a 10% drop-off after 1000 cycles. Which means a 30 mile reduction in range after 300,000 miles. And they come with 8 year warranties. Works for me.

It will take more to convince me.
The talk always tends to be high mileage, but not years of ownership.
Financially beneficial for high mileage users certainly, but not for those who like to keep their cars for a long time.

A lap top battery you say. I had to pay £40 for one lap top battery.
How many batteries are there in a Tesla ?

Something to look forward to, in about year 10 perhaps, when all you will need for your Aston Martin in year 10, is a new page for the service record. ~

[12pack]

Fair point about the years of ownership. But knowing what the full battery EV drive train is - certainly don't see anything that would degrade faster than an IC motor. And you wouldn't need new pages - there's really nothing to service and no oils to replace. My dad has a 30 year old golf cart that's never been to a shop since purchase.
I love my snarling V12, but once you look into it - you start to see how much of a kluge the whole oil-filled piston reciprocating, gear shifting mess it is.....

[Jon39]

12pack said:

My dad has a 30 year old golf cart that's never been to a shop since purchase.
I love my snarling V12, but once you look into it - you start to see how much of a kluge the whole oil-filled piston reciprocating, gear shifting mess it is.....

We are well off topic now, but as a plus, we are at least keeping this topic on the front page, until we know more about the new DBSS.

amongst my cars are two old ones still giving good service, one at 23 years old (120,000 m) and another at 18 years old (80,000 m).

I wonder whether they have been kinder to our planet, than if I had been on the 3 year PCP game, and having been responsible for 16 new cars being built and probably most scrapped, during that time period ?
There seems to be more to it, than just comparing the economic cost of electricity produced at power stations, versus petrol produced at refineries.

[12pack]

[quote=Jon39]

We are well off topic now, but as a plus, we are at least keeping this topic on the front page, until we know more about the new DBSS.

amongst my cars are two old ones still giving good service, one at 23 years old (120,000 m) and another at 18 years old (80,000 m).

I wonder whether they have been kinder to our planet, than if I had been on the 3 year PCP game, and having been responsible for 16 new cars being built and probably most scrapped, during that time period ?
There seems to be more to it, than just comparing the economic cost of electricity produced at power stations, versus petrol produced at refineries.[quote=jon39]



Indeed well off topic - but you are asking the right questions. Do follow up and conduct your own information analysis - as I have (including my insider knowledge as a Ph.D. Chem Engg. and an auto parts designer/supplier). I think that though internal combustion cars are the default, they are fundamentally flawed. They are part of a horribly inefficient (and non-sustainable) energy chain, and need expensive extraneous equipment (long drive trains and gearboxes) to drive smooth, continuous wheel rotation besides the complex engine itself. Now that full battery EVs are viable, I would consider myself to be a fool to buy another ICE car other than perhaps for now for very specialized track use. But still, I will cherish my remaining one as a latter day classic.

Edited by 12pack on Tuesday 12th June 15:55

[kizzz]

Anyone going to the launch in London next week?

[AstonV]

Tesla model S sponrainious combustion . The batteries go up like bombs. The slightest damage or overheating.

http://money.cnn.com/2018/06/18/technology/mary-mc...

[cardigankid]

AstonV said:

Tesla model S sponrainious combustion . The batteries go up like bombs. The slightest damage or overheating.

http://money.cnn.com/2018/06/18/technology/mary-mc...

1. I drove a BMW I8 and frankly it left me pretty cold 2. There isn’t enough power in the northern hemisphere to support A large percentage of the population using EV’s 3. There are ICE powered Bentleys from the 1920’s which are still running happily 4. Who really WANTS a Tesla?

The only thing that slightly worries me is not being allowed to drive into a town centre with an ICE and a little hybrid drive charged off the main motor would do that. Also a lot of towns you wouldn’t take a decent car into anyway.

I don’t see the DBSS being regarded as a dinosaur any more than a DB4GT, so lads I think you are worried about nothing.

[cardigankid]

Actually, I remember when I bought an X1/9 1500cc in 1979,I had a dose of this kind of tech fright. I thought, this is so good, but soon it’s going to be old technology and everything will be electronic. It must have been the early computers that gave me that impression. All bks. It’s a psychological complex, fear of the new or something.

I’m sure that Aston will do anything they can for a potential customer who expresses an interest. More so than Porsche who have really cheesed me off with their preferred clients list. I won’t go back there that’s for sure.

[David W.]

cardigankid said:

1. I drove a BMW I8 and frankly it left me pretty cold 2. There isn’t enough power in the northern hemisphere to support A large percentage of the population using EV’s 3. There are ICE powered Bentleys from the 1920’s which are still running happily 4. Who really WANTS a Tesla?

The only thing that slightly worries me is not being allowed to drive into a town centre with an ICE and a little hybrid drive charged off the main motor would do that. Also a lot of towns you wouldn’t take a decent car into anyway.

I don’t see the DBSS being regarded as a dinosaur any more than a DB4GT, so lads I think you are worried about nothing.

Havent tried an i8 yet but intend to, hope it might be like a small 918 ? !!!
Found this an interesting watch re electric power generation and demand.
https://youtu.be/9k7k3Mzknm8
DW