New AM Vantage Test Drive - in case anyone is interested

[Speedraser]

AstonV said:

Speedraser said:

many said the Benz engine was a deal-breaker.

Maybe if it sounded like an Aston Martin.

Nope. What it sounds like doesn't matter. What it is -- and is not -- does matter.

[Speedraser]

AstonV said:

tuffer said:

Oh well, at least they stayed true to their heritage and continued to build the engine in Germany.... AJ-V8 "The engine is assembled by hand at the AM facility in Cologne, Germany, which also builds the V12 for the DB9 and Vanquish."

So the AMG engine used in the Vantage is assembled at the AM facility? I thought they were shipped complete from Mercedes?

You are correct. The quote above refers to the 4.3/4.7 Aston Martin V8 engine. The Benz engine is built entirely by AMG and shipped to Aston -- it is not in any way an Aston engine.

[Buster73]

I think some who have no intention of buying the new Vantage are using the MB connection to validate their decision in writing on here.

Sick of hearing about it tbh.

[Speedraser]

CMYK said:

IanV12VR said:

Yes you do and I really understand why you don’t like having an AMG engine in the car. Given a perfect world I would have wanted them to use an engine developed in house but they reached the decision that resources were used better elsewhere. I just get fed up reading about it again and again. That’s the engine in the car, it isn’t going to change however much the naysayers go on about it. Perhaps when the next Vantage arrives it will be different but you have 6/7 years to wait for that. All IMHO.

Hear, hear. It’s done. Get over it and open your eyes to the future of Aston Martin - wish it well and look after your present AM models. PLEASE.

I love Aston Martin. I have since I was about 5. To suggest I don't wish it well could not be further from the truth. Would a Ferrari be a Ferrari if it had an AMG engine? No. Is there really any question? No. I don't think it's easy, or less than very expensive, to make your own engines, but IMO that's an absolute must, or the entire plot is lost. Desmond's quote says it perfectly.

If the "future of Aston Martin" means using someone else's off-the-shelf-engines, to me that's not a future of Aston Martin -- it's a future of something else, something less. That would be the sad descent of a formerly great marque into something that is not really the real thing, and something not worthy of the name or the badge.

[Speedraser]

Buster73 said:

I think some who have no intention of buying the new Vantage are using the MB connection to validate their decision in writing on here.

Er, not me.

[Buster73]

Speedraser said:

Er, not me.

I meant on previous threads n I wasn’t trying to single out anyone in particular .

[CSK1]

Speedraser is back, alive and kicking!

[tuffer]

Speedraser said:

AstonV said:

tuffer said:

Oh well, at least they stayed true to their heritage and continued to build the engine in Germany.... AJ-V8 "The engine is assembled by hand at the AM facility in Cologne, Germany, which also builds the V12 for the DB9 and Vanquish."

So the AMG engine used in the Vantage is assembled at the AM facility? I thought they were shipped complete from Mercedes?

You are correct. The quote above refers to the 4.3/4.7 Aston Martin V8 engine. The Benz engine is built entirely by AMG and shipped to Aston -- it is not in any way an Aston engine.

I was merely pointing out that the previous engine was built in Germany.

[Jon39]

tuffer said:

I was merely pointing out that the previous engine was built in Germany.

I am sure that you will already know Chris, that the location was linked to the ownership of AML by the Ford Motor Company.
The V8 was originally a Jaguar (also FMC owned) engine, but was then considerably altered by Cosworth, before being used in the Vantage.

[RobDown]

...and this thread started so well

[tuffer]

Jon39 said:

tuffer said:

I was merely pointing out that the previous engine was built in Germany.

I am sure that you will already know Chris, that the location was linked to the ownership of AML by the Ford Motor Company.
The V8 was originally a Jaguar (also FMC owned) engine, but was then considerably altered by Cosworth, before being used in the Vantage.

So people now crowing about it not being a true AM because it uses a MB engine....And yet the old engine was Jaguar based, modified by Cosworth and built in Germany. Hardly a bespoke unit built in Newport Pagnal was it. It's just a car, parts sourced from across the world probably. Buy it or don't, your choice. Personally I love the new Vantage and can't wait to take delivery (my first Aston), the fact that it has an engine sourced from MB did have an influence on my purchase.....a positive one.

[starlight225]

What tuffer just said!!

For the record, the state of tune and all the 1’s and 0’s are Aston’s own.

[AMDBSVNick]

tuffer said:

So people now crowing about it not being a true AM because it uses a MB engine....And yet the old engine was Jaguar based, modified by Cosworth and built in Germany. Hardly a bespoke unit built in Newport Pagnal was it. It's just a car, parts sourced from across the world probably. Buy it or don't, your choice. Personally I love the new Vantage and can't wait to take delivery (my first Aston), the fact that it has an engine sourced from MB did have an influence on my purchase.....a positive one.

[dbs2000]

tuffer said:

...the fact that it has an engine sourced from MB did have an influence on my purchase.....a positive one.

Exactly, they sourced arguably the best v8 engine in this class. It's not like AM are sticking an olde pushrod up front.

[12pack]

Personally, don't mind who makes the engine. Its the fact that its muffled by a turbo, not a V12 and mated to an automatic that bothers poor, old-fashioned me. Really not clear to me why I would choose the new car over a 570S if I didn't care about the above.

Here's a great quote about the manual V12V's that represents how I feel:
"The (V12 manual) Vantage may feel old now, but it will always feel the exact same level of old, no matter how far technology goes. The manual transmission removes it from the aging curve entirely. There’s permanence to that; the car will always feel exactly the same, regardless of the progress around it."

Edited by 12pack on Thursday 3rd May 10:28

[jonby]

12pack said:

Personally, don't mind who makes the engine. Its the fact that its muffled by a turbo, not a V12 and mated to an automatic that bothers poor, old-fashioned me. Really not clear to me why I would choose the new car over a 570S if I didn't care about the above.

The mac starts at 150k before options, the Aston at 120

whilst I'm sure the mac is faster, I'm not sure there will be an awful lot in it

lookswise, it's purely subjective which you prefer

aston has more bootspace if that's important

it's far from a no brainer in terms of a decision - some will prefer one, some the other

Now of course as someone who specced a new V12AMR when I'd already seen the new vantage, I'm with you on my preference for a n/a engine & 3 pedals. But that's a different matter to choosing between the new vantage and the Mac. Plus of course, it's one thing to compare the new Aston to the previous one for noise and an entirely different matter to compare the noise of the new aston to the noise from the mac

[tuffer]

jonby said:

12pack said:

Personally, don't mind who makes the engine. Its the fact that its muffled by a turbo, not a V12 and mated to an automatic that bothers poor, old-fashioned me. Really not clear to me why I would choose the new car over a 570S if I didn't care about the above.

The mac starts at 150k before options, the Aston at 120

whilst I'm sure the mac is faster, I'm not sure there will be an awful lot in it

lookswise, it's purely subjective which you prefer

aston has more bootspace if that's important

it's far from a no brainer in terms of a decision - some will prefer one, some the other

Now of course as someone who specced a new V12AMR when I'd already seen the new vantage, I'm with you on my preference for a n/a engine & 3 pedals. But that's a different matter to choosing between the new vantage and the Mac. Plus of course, it's one thing to compare the new Aston to the previous one for noise and an entirely different matter to compare the noise of the new aston to the noise from the mac

^ that, McLaren is a very different car. I was tempted with a 570GT but was shocked by the build quality of the ones I looked at and drove. The other issue was the usability or more the lack of it. I need a car that I can use for business and pleasure, and do about 10K per year. Vantage fits that brief and is a good replacement for the 911.

[Ken Figenus]

The Mac engine is made by Ricardo. Is it less of a Mac now? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ricardo_plc

I cant get too upset about the badge on the engine as for me its all about the attributes, reliability and capability of the engine. The journos LOVE that engine - if you had to outsource an emission compliant engine as a low volume manufacturer then they probably made the finest V8 choice possible. AMG is top of the tree. Badge surely comes second?

Your manual gearbox is made by Graciano in Italy and our ZF autos are made in Germany. My waterfall was made in Turkey and my V12 engine is sourced and built by Ford in Germany using quite a few Ford bits based on a PPT from Gaydon Hope no one has Recaro seats or Brembo brakes - all foreign!!!

I jest a little but - its done and we know why - for valid reasons. And it sounds like a cracker...

[Jon39]

Ken Figenus said:

The Mac engine is made by Ricardo. Is it less of a Mac now?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ricardo_plc

With Nissan origins, although a Le Mans race car, not the Micra.

https://jalopnik.com/this-20-year-old-nissan-is-th...

[avinalarf]

As an aside to the new Vantage debate and,somewhat tongue in cheek,I liken it to the Brexit debate.
I'm listening to James O'Brien on LBC radio and he is an ardent Brexit Remainer who fights his corner, in a most vociferous manner, to an extent that becomes rather a turn off.
Likewise the debate on the new Vantage has polarised opinion amongst us.
My advise is to graciously accept that things have moved on,its here and it ain't going to change,embrace the new model and fondly remember the old one.