Vantage GT12 vs Lexus LFA

Vantage GT12 vs Lexus LFA

Author
Discussion

nickv8

Original Poster:

353 posts

15 months

Wednesday 13th June
quotequote all
A “just curious” kinda question having seen a video on YouTube following the Lexus LFA engineering and build process.

It struck me how (relatively) close in concept the GT12 and LFA are. Both front-mid N/A engined, RWD, automated manuals, 2 seat hand built low volume and revered.

Both also criticised for their gearbox. Both lauded for their engine noise and handling.

Both rare as hen’s teeth and costly to maintain. (Lexus’ European service centre is in Germany.)

Interesting, both also around the same price now (give or take 10-20%).

Aston has the advantage on badge for some, but doesn’t bother me. Lexus has carbon tub, an engine that revs to 9,000 rpm and features more modern electronics.

Has anybody had the pleasure of driving or owning both? I imagine they are chalk and cheese in the real world, but would love to hear about hands-on experience.

CSK1

849 posts

56 months

Wednesday 13th June
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GT12 shouldn't be more costly to maintain than a V12 Vantage S equipped with a SportshiftIII gearbox as the engine is essentially the same as one equipped with the Performance Pack.

JohnG1

2,978 posts

137 months

Wednesday 13th June
quotequote all
LFA is a masterpiece. Ten throttle bodies, loads of very cool engineering.

GT12 is an incremental enhancement on V12V.

Given a choice, LFA all the way

nickv8

Original Poster:

353 posts

15 months

Thursday 14th June
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Cheers both. Good point about servicing cost for GT12 - and a damn sight more convenient than sending to Germany.

I wonder if there has ever been an owner crossover between these cars?

cayman-black

6,883 posts

148 months

Thursday 14th June
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Love the LFA, but given the choice, it would be the GT12 every time!
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D1FDS

37 posts

36 months

Thursday 14th June
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cayman-black said:
Love the LFA, but given the choice, it would be the GT12 every time!
+1 on that!

AdamV12AMR

1,080 posts

88 months

Thursday 14th June
quotequote all
GT12 is the pinnacle of Vantage. However, it still shares its design, chassis, and many components with a 14 year old car you can pick up for £35k
LFA is one-off engineering exercise in "because we can", which is pretty much bespoke in every way.

For that, LFA for me every day.

SFO

4,599 posts

115 months

Thursday 14th June
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LFA is a proper one off super car

GT12 is a sexed up standard V12 Vantage S

LFA every time, by millions of miles

Padley69

163 posts

65 months

Thursday 14th June
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I was fortunate enough to be driven rapidly by a race driver at Millbrook a few years back. I think 185mph on the bowl qualifies as rapid?!
It was a totally visceral experience even from the passenger seat.
I’m a massive fan of all AM V12s, especially the Vantage, but the LFA was very special. And the tech spec is astonishing.
Btw, I have no more desire to explore speeds above 150mph as one is very aware of the velocity. I discovered then that my wife must be very tolerant when I’m being ‘enthusiastic’ in our V12V even at much lower speeds

nickv8

Original Poster:

353 posts

15 months

Thursday 14th June
quotequote all
Great responses - thanks!

For those who would pick an LFA, why? Tech package? Driving experience? Exclusivity (if considering a GT12 to be “just” a Vantage variant)?

I have no agenda with these Q’s, just interested. My mind wonders what either would be like to live with. Which makes you feel more alive on average or at those special moments?

If the criteria to judge either as a supercar, I can see why the LFA would be picked and not the GT12. But I’m reality, their philosophies aren’t too far apart. Or is true exclusivity a deciding factor? Or materials used at the core? Could the VW XL1 then also be considered a left field supercar?

OK - I’ll stop over thinking now wink

JohnG1

2,978 posts

137 months

Friday 15th June
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nickv8 said:
Great responses - thanks!

For those who would pick an LFA, why? Tech package? Driving experience? Exclusivity (if considering a GT12 to be “just” a Vantage variant)?

I have no agenda with these Q’s, just interested. My mind wonders what either would be like to live with. Which makes you feel more alive on average or at those special moments?

If the criteria to judge either as a supercar, I can see why the LFA would be picked and not the GT12. But I’m reality, their philosophies aren’t too far apart. Or is true exclusivity a deciding factor? Or materials used at the core? Could the VW XL1 then also be considered a left field supercar?

OK - I’ll stop over thinking now wink
"philosophies aren’t too far apart"
What does that mean?
One is the "almost" final evolution of the V8 Vantage story. Lots of incremental enhancements to a car signed off in 2004. No real engine enhancements beyond fitting Bosch ECU and new exhaust and inlet manifolds. And I've not understood how the number of catalytic converters dropped from six to four...

LFA - clean sheet of paper, carbon fibre tub, dry sump V10, fuel cut off at 9500rpm. Lexus started with Aluminium construction but binned that and re-tooled for carbon fibre.

My view is that LFA is more like a front-mid engined McLaren but with more money spent on development by Lexus (carbon fibre tub with Aluminium sub frames front and rear).

The only real link to AML is the front-mid engine placement, torque-tube and transaxle design.





AdamV12AMR

1,080 posts

88 months

Friday 15th June
quotequote all
JohnG1 said:
"philosophies aren’t too far apart"
What does that mean?
To be fair to the OP...

OP said:
Both front-mid N/A engined, RWD, automated manuals, 2 seat hand built low volume and revered.

Both also criticised for their gearbox. Both lauded for their engine noise and handling.

Both rare as hen’s teeth and costly to maintain. (Lexus’ European service centre is in Germany.)

Interesting, both also around the same price now (give or take 10-20%).
Whether you agree or not is another thing, but he’s set his stall out...

JohnG1

2,978 posts

137 months

Friday 15th June
quotequote all
AdamV12AMR said:
JohnG1 said:
"philosophies aren’t too far apart"
What does that mean?
To be fair to the OP...

OP said:
Both front-mid N/A engined, RWD, automated manuals, 2 seat hand built low volume and revered.

Both also criticised for their gearbox. Both lauded for their engine noise and handling.

Both rare as hen’s teeth and costly to maintain. (Lexus’ European service centre is in Germany.)

Interesting, both also around the same price now (give or take 10-20%).
Whether you agree or not is another thing, but he’s set his stall out...
A series of statements around the engine location and so on does not, as far as I see, set out a philosophy.

I have not owned or driven an LFA, but I have owned a V8 Vantage and a V12 Vantage. The Vantage was created to Ford Motor Company standards of design, specific power output, reliability and so on. Hence the use of Ford "Premier Auto Group" parts from Lincoln, Volvo, Jaguar and Ford.

The LFA, from everything I have read or seen, was created as a no-comprise shot at building a supercar to the highest standards. Hence the exotic alloys in the engine, ten throttle bodies, 9500rpm fuel cut off, carbon fibre tub, CFRP body panels and so on.

Therefore the underlying philosophies for the two cars are radically different.

Market price has no relation to design philosophy no?

nickv8

Original Poster:

353 posts

15 months

Saturday 16th June
quotequote all
I get where you’re coming from, John and also see huge chasms in technology and their reasons for existing. But when actually driving any car, do you notice the materials used in its construction? Is a Ferrari never considered a competitor to McLaren because the tub is aluminium vs. CF?

Even with the LFA’s Yamaha developed engine and its rev limit, it’s not a vastly overpowered power plant. I’m sure it has a stiffer structure, but neither did it benefit for years of evolution, with only one derivative. It is said to be a good handling car, but then so is the GT12 according to reviews. I know the base Vantage on which it’s based is a great car to drive in the real world.

I don’t think there seems to be somebody who has experienced both LFA and GT12 side by side. Due to their rarity, that’s no surprise. My curiosity as to whether they are closer in principle than their detailed spec lets on, remains smile

Jon39

5,380 posts

75 months

Saturday 16th June
quotequote all

Other manufacturer competition for Aston Martin, does now seems to be far more intense than ever before.

In addition to the Lexus, Bentley teased with a concept a couple of years ago, and now AMG are talking about a rival to the Cayman.


BENTLEY



AMG













nickv8

Original Poster:

353 posts

15 months

Saturday 16th June
quotequote all
Jon39 said:

Other manufacturer competition for Aston Martin, does now seems to be far more intense than ever before.

In addition to the Lexus, Bentley teased with a concept a couple of years ago, and now AMG are talking about a rival to the Cayman.


BENTLEY
Must admit that Bentley concept did resemble a Vantage in side profile... and not in a bad way!

Olivera

2,974 posts

171 months

Saturday 16th June
quotequote all
nickv8 said:
.. but neither did it benefit for years of evolution, with only one derivative.
Two derivatives, the base LFA, then after years of racing in VLN/Nurburgring 24h, the road going LFA Nurburgring Edition:


wtdoom

3,560 posts

140 months

Sunday 17th June
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You all know how much I love astons now but I'm afraid to say the LFA is another league .
The engine is to die for , the responsiveness and sound literally make you cry .
It has great handle a playful chassis and looks very unique ( you decide if that's good or bad ).
The build quality is also rarely mentioned , it truly is just perfectly built
It's the one that got away and I swear I will find one in the right colours one day .

OddCat

1,199 posts

103 months

Sunday 17th June
quotequote all
...one has a gap along the leading edge of the bonnet that makes it look like the bonnet isn't closed properly and the one other doesn't.....?

Despite that, i have to say that the LFA is simply magnificent... smile

JohnG1

2,978 posts

137 months

Sunday 17th June
quotequote all
wtdoom said:
You all know how much I love astons now but I'm afraid to say the LFA is another league .
The engine is to die for , the responsiveness and sound literally make you cry .
It has great handle a playful chassis and looks very unique ( you decide if that's good or bad ).
The build quality is also rarely mentioned , it truly is just perfectly built
It's the one that got away and I swear I will find one in the right colours one day .
Out of my price range sadly, but if/when you get one - can I have a passenger ride, please?