Replacement/rebuilt engines -eg Powers Taraka and V8D 5l
Discussion
Folks,
Contemplating the prospect of getting my engine rebuilt in my Chimaera,which is currently a 4l.
I have had (and enjoyed!) this car for over a decade.
With rebuilding, come the options of rebuilding it as with a little more oomph..
I note that common engine rebuilders/builders include TVRPower , John Eales and V8 Developments.
I'm considering going for a good 5l or 5l plus options (realistically - had I had the funds when I bought my 4l a decade ago, I would have gone for a 4.5 or 5l, but I didn't back then).
as examples:
TVRpower do a 4/4.5 to 5l upgrade, plus also a 5l Taraka
V8D do various flavours of 5l and 5.4l
I need the car to be driveable in traffic (ie manageable at low revs), and reliable, but otherwise keen to get a 'significant step up' on what I currently have (last rolling roaded at 220BHP@fly)
Grateful for peoples thoughts on the various options, and feedback, good and bad (please PM me if you need to - I appreciate name and shame rules may prevent sharing bad experiences).
Ta :-)
Contemplating the prospect of getting my engine rebuilt in my Chimaera,which is currently a 4l.
I have had (and enjoyed!) this car for over a decade.
With rebuilding, come the options of rebuilding it as with a little more oomph..
I note that common engine rebuilders/builders include TVRPower , John Eales and V8 Developments.
I'm considering going for a good 5l or 5l plus options (realistically - had I had the funds when I bought my 4l a decade ago, I would have gone for a 4.5 or 5l, but I didn't back then).
as examples:
TVRpower do a 4/4.5 to 5l upgrade, plus also a 5l Taraka
V8D do various flavours of 5l and 5.4l
I need the car to be driveable in traffic (ie manageable at low revs), and reliable, but otherwise keen to get a 'significant step up' on what I currently have (last rolling roaded at 220BHP@fly)
Grateful for peoples thoughts on the various options, and feedback, good and bad (please PM me if you need to - I appreciate name and shame rules may prevent sharing bad experiences).
Ta :-)
rebuild what you have plus a blower great low speed manners plus plenty of torque when you need it no lag just go.
tvr_9_march 2 by Brundall Motorsport, on Flickr
tvr_9_march 35 by Brundall Motorsport, on Flickr
john
tvr_9_march 2 by Brundall Motorsport, on Flickrtvr_9_march 35 by Brundall Motorsport, on Flickrjohn
Only you can decide what you fancy really, your probably pushing 10000 to get a 500 conversion which is ludicrous in my eyes.
But it is your money after all!
You will also get a million different answers to preferences, i fancied going forced induction on a standard 400 but worked out it was going to be around £7500 to do that properly, which i wasnt willing to spend.
But it is your money after all!
You will also get a million different answers to preferences, i fancied going forced induction on a standard 400 but worked out it was going to be around £7500 to do that properly, which i wasnt willing to spend.
Fair comments.
My take is that the cost of a straight rebuild (which includes engine out etc) is already committed....ie I am expecting I will have to pull the engine out and rebuild it.
I will be paying someone to do this, so this spend is mentally committed.
Assuming this is the case , then the additional cost of rebuilding to a 4.5, 5, 5.4 etc are incremental to a base cost of 4.5-6k anyway...
...major case of man maths.. but if I keep the car another decade the additional cost of a few extra k on the rebuild , over time, is not that much...
Hence looking at options :-)
My take is that the cost of a straight rebuild (which includes engine out etc) is already committed....ie I am expecting I will have to pull the engine out and rebuild it.
I will be paying someone to do this, so this spend is mentally committed.
Assuming this is the case , then the additional cost of rebuilding to a 4.5, 5, 5.4 etc are incremental to a base cost of 4.5-6k anyway...
...major case of man maths.. but if I keep the car another decade the additional cost of a few extra k on the rebuild , over time, is not that much...
Hence looking at options :-)
i run brundall motorsport which sounds posh but its just me and this car in the pics was a development to allow fitting the rotrex supercharger to the pre serpentine engines its now 4 to 5 years ago that was done including a full car rebuild thread is on here somewhere it produces around 350 bhp and 375 ftlbs of torque it is running an emerald ecu and as belle correctly says it gets the best from the engine.
john
john
I asked a similar question on here some years ago and got a variety of answers. In the end, I went to Powers and had the engine fully rebuilt before they fitted the turbo. You'll (not) be surprised how the price increases when you need a bigger clutch, maybe a new radiator, new manifolds or a zillion other 'incidentals'like bigger brakes, improved suspension and so on and on and....... The engine has done 7,000 miles now and has good oil pressure and no oil burning or overheating.
Also have a V8D in my Sd1 which has done approx 50,000 miles (previous owner). Does not burn oil, fairly good oil pressure and does not overheat.
You really need to decide exactly what it is you want, get it priced by the 3 companies above and try and make an informed decision.
Also have a V8D in my Sd1 which has done approx 50,000 miles (previous owner). Does not burn oil, fairly good oil pressure and does not overheat.
You really need to decide exactly what it is you want, get it priced by the 3 companies above and try and make an informed decision.
simplifying:
If you want to stay naturally aspirated, you will need a wilder cam and higher compression, bigger capacity, bigger heads etc.
If you want to add a super- or turbo- charger, you could start with a good standard engine with low compression etc and make the power through the FI.
You need to decide which way you want to achieve your desired result.
You also need to decide why you need more power - where are you using the car? Road only? Track? Drag strip? Sprinting or hill climbing?
The standard 4 litre makes plenty of power for the public road in the UK....IMHO.
If you want to stay naturally aspirated, you will need a wilder cam and higher compression, bigger capacity, bigger heads etc.
If you want to add a super- or turbo- charger, you could start with a good standard engine with low compression etc and make the power through the FI.
You need to decide which way you want to achieve your desired result.
You also need to decide why you need more power - where are you using the car? Road only? Track? Drag strip? Sprinting or hill climbing?
The standard 4 litre makes plenty of power for the public road in the UK....IMHO.
My take on it that, now that just about every new car out there is turbo'ed (or electric/hybrid), it makes sense to keep your 'special'/ weekend can naturally aspirated and make the best of that, because it's an experience you'll otherwise seldom enmcounter in the next 10 years or so (and besides, it's kind of hard to compete with OEM turbo technology in terms of response and driveability anyway). As QBee says, in fact for road use the 4.0 will be ample 99% of times.
For the remaining 1 percent of driving time, I believe that the good old RV8 is happiest at 4.something litres capacity, when you go 5 litres or bigger you'll be working against the flow limits of the heads and intake manifold which results in either a diesel-like power curve (in a light sports car - why?) or the ramifications of ultra big porting, a very agressive cam etc, which will be pretty hard to harness with engine management (the usual aftermarket alternatives are not that much cleverer than what it has anyway, being on a par with early-90s OEM management at best).
Personally, I would stick to rebuilding your 4 litre to a 4.6 using the 4.0 pistons with valve reliëfs cut into them for a higher compression ratio, modify the heads with better porting, something like a Stealth or TVR 885 cam and intermediate large valves and possibly - if you are lucky enough to run a very late serpentine engine with the knock sensor bosses in the block - convert to GEMS (the system that the later RV8 Land Rovers got). With proper induction, you should see the far side of 300 hp with that lot...
For the remaining 1 percent of driving time, I believe that the good old RV8 is happiest at 4.something litres capacity, when you go 5 litres or bigger you'll be working against the flow limits of the heads and intake manifold which results in either a diesel-like power curve (in a light sports car - why?) or the ramifications of ultra big porting, a very agressive cam etc, which will be pretty hard to harness with engine management (the usual aftermarket alternatives are not that much cleverer than what it has anyway, being on a par with early-90s OEM management at best).
Personally, I would stick to rebuilding your 4 litre to a 4.6 using the 4.0 pistons with valve reliëfs cut into them for a higher compression ratio, modify the heads with better porting, something like a Stealth or TVR 885 cam and intermediate large valves and possibly - if you are lucky enough to run a very late serpentine engine with the knock sensor bosses in the block - convert to GEMS (the system that the later RV8 Land Rovers got). With proper induction, you should see the far side of 300 hp with that lot...
'valve reliefs cut into them for higher CR'? valve reliefs were cut for,,,, valves for higher lift as I understand, and lowered CR. That's why along with composite gaskets 450 motors are a shade under 9.00:1 and not the 9.35:1 as stamped on the block. But agree that 4.6 (450) motors are best base to start from.
macdeb said:
'valve reliefs cut into them for higher CR'? valve reliefs were cut for,,,, valves for higher lift as I understand, and lowered CR.
Wrong conclusion there from that sentence 
(Or lack of clarity from my side, whatever one prefers 
) The valve reliefs for freedom of cam choice beyond the fairly mild MC1/218 (Stealth might just about give enough clearance, without reliefs cut into the valves, but it's not a given), 4.0 pistons instead of the 4.6 ones to lift the CR to 10:1 or thereabouts 
The best bang for your buck in terms of performance per pound will be a simple turbo install on low boost keeping your lucas ecu and dizzy.
Most sports car like feel would be a nicely tuned 4 litre revver .. 300hp should be very achievable if you can live with a bit of cam related drivability issues low down, 270hp would get you something smoother low down.
Best value NA combo is as said already the well trodden route of a cheap 4.6 with cheap 4 litre pistons, porting on your existing heads and something like a stealth cam.
as ever the question is how fast can you afford to go ?
Most sports car like feel would be a nicely tuned 4 litre revver .. 300hp should be very achievable if you can live with a bit of cam related drivability issues low down, 270hp would get you something smoother low down.
Best value NA combo is as said already the well trodden route of a cheap 4.6 with cheap 4 litre pistons, porting on your existing heads and something like a stealth cam.
as ever the question is how fast can you afford to go ?
spitfire4v8 said:
Most sports car like feel would be a nicely tuned 4 litre revver .. 300hp should be very achievable if you can live with a bit of cam related drivability issues low down, 270hp.
You have just described my exact goal!
What would you say is the best bang-for-buck way to go about achieving a reasonably rev-happy 270bhp in an N/A 4.0?
For reference it's a 4.0hc with pocketed pistons and has just had a Taraka 855 cam fitted to replace the worn original.
Next step over the winter is to get the Canems system installed (principally for drivability / usability / reliability / ilityility reasons).
I presume after that I'd be looking at upgrading the plenum / trumpets etc? Could I get close to 270 on the standard heads?
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