V12V carbon ceramic Q’s

[LiamV12V]

I’ve had my 2 previous owner, 35,000 mile V12V for a month or so now and am really enjoying it.

I’ve got a question about the CC brakes which fellow owners may be able to comment on.

When I collected the car the discs all looked lovely but since then I’ve noticed a couple of them, both offside incidentally, have started to show signs of radial running marks. Definitely not grooving as they are imperceptible to the touch but they are obviously visible as the pic below shows



I’ve never had CCBs before so not sure if this is normal and caused by small bits of grit etc stuck between pad and disc, much the same as you’d see with steel discs? I’ve never come across pics of CCBs looking like this, only pics of pristine surfaces or ones which have catastrophically failed.

I am certainly using the brakes in a ‘sporting manner’ so to speak and am very impressed with their bite once you get a bit of heat into them.

Have people come across this with their brakes?

Cheers, Liam

Edited by LiamV12V on Sunday 30th September 09:37

[Mako V12V]

Hi Liam, I wouldn’t say this is normal. Not seen this before. But if you can’t feel these marks it may be nothing. But. It may be a pad issue? How old are the pads, have they ever been changed. Given the mileage it may be a pad issue as they may be due for change. Was it a dealer purchase - take it back to them or a AM main dealer and take advice.
I would only drive the car lightly until resolved as you don’t want to be doing any harm to the discs.
Good luck and let us know how you get on.

[LiamV12V]

Mako V12V said:

Hi Liam, I wouldn’t say this is normal. Not seen this before. But if you can’t feel these marks it may be nothing. But. It may be a pad issue? How old are the pads, have they ever been changed. Given the mileage it may be a pad issue as they may be due for change. Was it a dealer purchase - take it back to them or a AM main dealer and take advice.
I would only drive the car lightly until resolved as you don’t want to be doing any harm to the discs.
Good luck and let us know how you get on.

Hi, yes bought from an AM dealer with warranty. It’s got a full AM history but no record of any pad changes in the book. There looks to be about 6mm of pad material still present on all 4 corners. Will make contact with them and see what they say.

Cheers

Edited by LiamV12V on Sunday 30th September 17:47

[David W.]

I think there is comment somewhere, possibly on Bamford Rose threads about pads getting to a point of damaging the discs before low pad warning shows.
See what you can find.
DW

[BamfordMike]

Could be pin marks on discs.

The pins which help secure friction part of pad to backing plate, alarmingly, breakthrough surface before wear indicator triggers, Design flaw!?
The pad thickness at point of pin breakthrough appears quite meaty giving false impression the pad has plenty of life left in it.
See pics below.
It’s best to get the issue looked at sooner rather than later, a rejuvenation cycle will return the discs back to good health if attended to early after new pads, of pin breakthrough is the issue.

[LiamV12V]

Thanks everyone. Mike, that does look very suspicious indeed, I’ll mention it when I speak to the dealer today.

Cheers, Liam

[cayman-black]

Great advice from Mike as usual. I would agree with this.

[LiamV12V]

Car being recovered to AM Edinburgh later today. They agree that pin breakthrough is the most likely reason for this happening. I’ll update when I hear the verdict from them.

Thanks again.

[leerandle]

What a fundamental design flaw, wouldn't expect it on something so 'exotically expensive' like Carbon ceramic brakes.

Hope you get sorted, you'll have to ask them what the actual sensors are for, as it sounds like its too late by the time they come on.

[Big Ry]

LiamV12V said:

Car being recovered to AM Edinburgh later today. They agree that pin breakthrough is the most likely reason for this happening. I’ll update when I hear the verdict from them.

Thanks again.

Well done for spotting it.........many wouldn't have until real damage had been done.

[David W.]

Could this be avoided using a different brand of pad?
DW

[morty1961]

I was also thinking if there are any choices for the pads for the Ceramics?

[Phil57DBS]

Here in Europe Pagid provides Brembo.

used the original equivalents, half price, équivalent grip, no noise and good disc life :
PAGID RSC1 4941 front
PAGID RSC1 4943 rear
For all Aston V12 with CCM
http://www.pagidracing.com/files/Public/Downloads/...

the material is the same engraved on the back = Textar 4300 !

RSC2 and RSC3 are specific Track and Race, not good for daily cars

For all Carbon pads, mandatory break-in procedure

Edited by Phil57DBS on Tuesday 2nd October 08:52

Edited by Phil57DBS on Friday 7th February 15:36

[morty1961]

you can see on the pictures why the pins appear when the pads only half worn !!!!

[A-DBS]

After looking at Liam’s picture I had a look at my ccms. Mine are on a 2010 DBS and have only done 28 000km. I have no clue how they are suposed to look either. All the pictures I have seen on google look to hace a very mate finish.
I see some very faint scoors on my front discs, what do u guys think? Do I need new pads already?

Thx, Alban

[BamfordMike]

A-DBS said:

After looking at Liam’s picture I had a look at my ccms. Mine are on a 2010 DBS and have only done 28 000km. I have no clue how they are suposed to look either. All the pictures I have seen on google look to hace a very mate finish.
I see some very faint scoors on my front discs, what do u guys think? Do I need new pads already?

Thx, Alban

28k’s on the original set of pads? If so that’s some fairly light braking that car has done!

Discs look to me to be in normal condition wrt graining and colour, if they feel like a mirror to touch and not rough, then all is indeed good!
Perhaps there is the early onset of low pad / pin breakthrough starting to occur in the arcs I’ve highlighted in red.
And slight differences with picture scaling aside, the pad thickness in my example of total pin breakthrough Vs your pad, ain’t that different to each other.
Probably worth caliper removal, pad extraction for an assessment seeing as eyes are the only indicator of wear, the wear leads fitted to the pad are next to useless to determine when the pad is at end of life and about to self destruct the disc

[A-DBS]

BamfordMike said:

28k’s on the original set of pads? If so that’s some fairly light braking that car has done!

Discs look to me to be in normal condition wrt graining and colour, if they feel like a mirror to touch and not rough, then all is indeed good!
Perhaps there is the early onset of low pad / pin breakthrough starting to occur in the arcs I’ve highlighted in red.
And slight differences with picture scaling aside, the pad thickness in my example of total pin breakthrough Vs your pad, ain’t that different to each other.
Probably worth caliper removal, pad extraction for an assessment seeing as eyes are the only indicator of wear, the wear leads fitted to the pad are next to useless to determine when the pad is at end of life and about to self destruct the disc

Mike you are a star! Thank you very much.
The 28ks are in km that would be about 17k miles so would that not be normal then?

Which pads would you recomend, the OEM brembo or pagid RSC1?

[LiamV12V]

Update: there is nothing wrong with my pads according to the dealer. I’ll have to keep a close eye on them and see what happens to the marks but they don’t think there’s any need to do anything at this point.

Car on way back to me.

Any thoughts...

[cayman-black]

So what has caused those marks? are they still there.?

[V8V Pete]

LiamV12V said:

Any thoughts...

My understanding is that you cannot inspect the pads on V12V front brakes without removing the calipers. So my first thought would be to have a look at the caliper bolts to see if they've been removed recently. If not then they've just eyeballed the pads in situ which won't tell you anything about pin breakthrough