Scraping noise when shifting cold from 1st to 2nd gear

Scraping noise when shifting cold from 1st to 2nd gear

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Emilio Largo

Original Poster:

582 posts

110 months

Tuesday 11th December 2018
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When shifting from 1st to 2nd gear after cold start in my 17MY V8 Vantage S Manual I get a scraping or grinding noise from the gearbox – and this is by pulling the gearlever very gently and slowly backwards. If I didn´t handle it gently and slowly, I would even get a loud crunching shift noise that startled me when I first experienced it.

It takes about 15 minutes or so until the gearbox has warmed up and shifting from 1st to 2nd gear can be handled swiftly and without ugly noises.

The scraping noise/feel had only been a light one during the first drives, but after the position of the gearlever had been optimized during the first service in August to better find the 3rd gear slot when upshifting from 2nd, I have the impression that the cold shifting problem from 1st to 2nd has deteriorated correspondingly. Is this technically possible or am I making this up?

Do I need to accept these gearbox noises in general or what could/should be done under warranty when the car will be in service again next summer? Is it a case of “They all do that, Sir!”? I hadn´t spoken to my main dealer about it as we had other issues to discuss (eg. grinding transmission noise from the propshaft).

I would appreciate your experiences!

8Speed

726 posts

65 months

Tuesday 11th December 2018
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I'd change the oil if I were you.
I usually shift from 1st to 3rd for the first mile or so if it's very cold - after that all is very slick.

8Speed

726 posts

65 months

Tuesday 11th December 2018
quotequote all
I'd change the oil if I were you.
I usually shift from 1st to 3rd for the first mile or so if it's very cold - after that all is very slick.

8Speed

726 posts

65 months

Tuesday 11th December 2018
quotequote all
I'd change the oil if I were you.
I usually shift from 1st to 3rd for the first mile or so if it's very cold - after that all is very slick.

PeteB62

106 posts

79 months

Tuesday 11th December 2018
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What kind of mileage have you done?

Mine is similar age at 14K, gear box is much slicker once warm but I've not yet had any significant noise when cold unless through user error. I find when cold best always to have the clutch 100%, once warm much more forgiving. When I had first test drive before I bought my car the dealer told me it takes a little longer as the box is at the back. In fact he specifically drove the car from cold so I did not experience this and only became aware after owning for a while, but just something you get used to.

ripley500

387 posts

210 months

Tuesday 11th December 2018
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I had this in my V12V - it would only do it for the first few changes then it was fine. Dealer changed gearbox oil twice but that didn’t solve it - they ended up replacing the gearbox and the clutch and that solved it - all done under AM warranty.

Emilio Largo

Original Poster:

582 posts

110 months

Tuesday 11th December 2018
quotequote all
Current mileage: 369km (hibernated now).

Yes, I am aware that on early modelyear Vantage cars it seems to have been difficult to get into 2nd gear when cold. As far as I am informed there had been a service bulletin about this problem consisting of transaxle oil change and a hardware modification (different shift-fork).

But I hadn´t read about scraping/crunching noises on such cars and I should think that the old service bulletin had long become part of the permanent model upgrading. So I cannot imagine that the solution on my much younger car will be a mere transaxle oil change?

Indeed I am very much afraid that the whole gearbox might have to be swapped.

When I first experienced an audible shift crunch my first thought was that I hadn´t fully depressed the clutch pedal. But ever since I really concentrated on the clutch pedal action in cold condition but that obviously isn´t the cause.

Jon39

12,782 posts

142 months

Tuesday 11th December 2018
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Emilio Largo said:
When shifting from 1st to 2nd gear after cold start in my 17MY V8 Vantage S Manual I get a scraping or grinding noise from the gearbox ...

... as we had other issues to discuss (eg. grinding transmission noise from the propshaft).

The heavy shift 1st to 2nd when cold is normal. With my car, the local residential roads mean that only 1st gear is used for about the first mile (an opportunity to warm the brakes, foot and hand), so by the time 2nd is eventually selected, it is a reasonably smooth change.

The gearbox noise that you describe, when changing from 1st to 2nd is certainly NOT normal. Presumably a MY 2017 car is still within warranty.

Grinding transmission noise (gear chatter) is common at low engine revs. on the V8 cars. The V12 engine has more balance. Presumably it ceases when your engine revs rise. Not sure at what revs the noise tends to stop, I must take notice of the tacho to see. I try to avoid the circumstances when the chatter is likely to occur. Hearing the chatter noise does make me wonder whether mechanical wear is occurring, but I don't know the answer to that.






Edited by Jon39 on Tuesday 11th December 22:21

DB9VolanteDriver

2,612 posts

175 months

Wednesday 12th December 2018
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When cold, I always shift from 1st to 3rd until warm. And sometimes I don't use 2nd at all when just lolling about.

4x4sche

30 posts

91 months

Wednesday 12th December 2018
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Here is the cause and here is the easiest solution:

The cause is that the oil runs down out of the synchro cones when the gears are not turning. It is not a function of the oil being cold. It is because there is no oil present higher up in the gearbox.

The solution is that once you have started the car (with the clutch depressed) before you set off, place the gearbox in neutral (if not already) and let the clutch out. Just let the engine idle for 15 to 30 seconds and the gears will splash the oil around and the oil will be distributed to all the right places.


bogie

16,342 posts

271 months

Wednesday 12th December 2018
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My 2012 4.7 V8 is similar, its had the gearbox oil changed and a new clutch less than 5k miles ago. Still the same. Must admit my 2006 Vantage had a lovely smooth gearbox once the early service mod (inc oil change) was done. I just kind of put up with it for a few miles/first few gear changes on a cold day.

I will try the advice above next time and see what it feels like.......

Emilio Largo

Original Poster:

582 posts

110 months

Wednesday 12th December 2018
quotequote all
Thanks for the answers so far.

@ripley500 and bogie: At least it seems I am not the ONLY one experiencing this problem. But I am astonished that not more owners speak out? Is it that rare?

When I got the car I used to think the scraping noise might be normal since I had read about the cold start shifting problems on early cars. But now it becomes clear to me that my problem is like the other way round: When cold I have little trouble upshifting into 2nd gear; I dont´t need much force. But I do have to be VERY careful with the gearlever not to produce a loud crunching noise.

4x4sche said:
The solution is that once you have started the car (with the clutch depressed) before you set off, place the gearbox in neutral (if not already) and let the clutch out. Just let the engine idle for 15 to 30 seconds and the gears will splash the oil around and the oil will be distributed to all the right places.
Sorry, but this is standard operating procedure with a leisure car, isn´t it? I am simply not able to drive off straight away like with my everyday car as the Aston is stored in a special garage and needs to wait for the car lift and will be checked etc. So there is plenty of engine idling anyway - five minutes minimum. This obviously is not the answer.

I am anticipating another long workshop stay next summer. I wonder how AML will react.

hueyhoolihan

84 posts

53 months

Saturday 21st March 2020
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i've got the same problem on my 2007 AM vantage v8 with 14,000 miles. the gears grind on 1st to 2nd gear shift on a cold engine (even with a bit of idling beforehand). it goes away in about a five miles of driving. ambient temps anywhere from 40 to 60 degrees F.
think i'll have the gear oil changed.

Speedraser

1,656 posts

182 months

Saturday 21st March 2020
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My '09 doesn't do that. I simply double-clutch (US-speak, double-declutch in the UK) into 2nd when the 'box is cold, which works well.

Emilio Largo

Original Poster:

582 posts

110 months

Tuesday 24th March 2020
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hueyhoolihan said:
i've got the same problem on my 2007 AM vantage v8 with 14,000 miles. the gears grind on 1st to 2nd gear shift on a cold engine (even with a bit of idling beforehand). it goes away in about a five miles of driving. ambient temps anywhere from 40 to 60 degrees F.
think i'll have the gear oil changed.
Worth trying. In case the car hadn´t got the Service Bulletin 0236 (Castrol BOT270A and/or revised gear selector bell crank lever) the transaxle oil should certainly be changed, but you probably know this already. If not: http://bernardembden.com/am/transaxle/index.htm

There is another workaround "makeshift solution" that might perhaps help (needed some very long digging in the PH vaults to find out about this): Before rolling off shift through all the gears 1-2-3-4-5-6 and back a few times thus shearing the cold transmission oil. Worked 100% in my case when I tried it - astonishing. "Aston"-ishing also that the crunching noise in my case suddenly disappeared out of nowhere just before last year´s annual service date at the main dealer rolleyes leaving no ground to demand a gearbox change under warranty. I just hope it will stay away in the future, too (if the car ever drives again, that is, facing the current crisis and the looming financial consequences).


Dingle Dell

218 posts

137 months

Tuesday 24th March 2020
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This was a real annoyance for me with my old Vantage. I only found out near the time I sold it (after 5 years of ownership) that double de-clutching, as suggested by Speedraser more or less eliminated the problem.

Not that you should need to do that in a modern car, but I wish I had found out sooner in my ownership.

Emilio Largo

Original Poster:

582 posts

110 months

Tuesday 24th March 2020
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Forgive my ignorance but out of interest can I ask how this is done correctly?

Press clutch/lift throttle - release clutch/press throttle - press clutch/lift throttle again - pull back gearlever into second gear - ...

Would that be the sequence?

Speedraser

1,656 posts

182 months

Wednesday 25th March 2020
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Emilio Largo said:
Forgive my ignorance but out of interest can I ask how this is done correctly?

Press clutch/lift throttle - release clutch/press throttle - press clutch/lift throttle again - pull back gearlever into second gear - ...

Would that be the sequence?
Emilio, that's basically right if you're downshifting and needing to increase the revs for the lower gear. To upshift from 1st to 2nd (or any upshift, for that matter), press clutch/lift throttle, shift into neutral - release clutch - press clutch - pull back gearlever into second gear. If you do it fairly quickly, the rpm should be well-matched to slot 2nd easily, though I always pull the lever pretty gently just in case it doesn't want to go easily (it nearly always does). After slotting 2nd gear, the revs have often dropped too low for a smooth rev-matched clutch engagement, so I'll add a little throttle to bring the revs up a little before I release the clutch pedal.

Emilio Largo

Original Poster:

582 posts

110 months

Wednesday 25th March 2020
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Thanks very much for the explanation, Speedraser! thumbup Embarrassing to own a performance car and not to know basic driving techniques. boxedin

Speedraser

1,656 posts

182 months

Thursday 26th March 2020
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beer