Reichman Vs The Rest - Pictures

Reichman Vs The Rest - Pictures

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Discussion

CB07

Original Poster:

525 posts

232 months

Friday 10th July 2020
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Thought a more light picture hearted topic wouldn’t be a bad thing given recent topics of doom
and gloom.

I have argued Reichman has lost his way. However he has been with the firm an awfully long time So some credit must surely be due. So how many bad eggs has he laid, in your opinion, and how many peaches has he presided over?

As far as my understanding goes, the one 77 was Reichman’s first solo effort at Aston Martin. It also happens to be my favourite of his Aston Martin designs.

Second favourite of his is the Rapide, which arguably wasn’t a tough job given the fact it is a four door facsimile of its VH stablemates. However a finer or cooler looking four door you will not find. Kudos to him there. A true Aston Martin.

In the VS the rest category, one of my all time favourites (a moveable feast naturally) with a Heffernan/Greenly Le Mans taking the nod.

What is your favourite Reichman Aston, and the best of the rest.

Anyhow. To the photos.











Buzz Killington

146 posts

116 months

Friday 10th July 2020
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The one 77 is an absolute master piece. My favourite looking car.

Mr.Tremlini

1,460 posts

100 months

Friday 10th July 2020
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The One77 is a stunning car but not a huge stretch from the existing Vantage/DB9 design language of the time, just muscled up and aggressive.

oilit

2,618 posts

177 months

Saturday 11th July 2020
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All 3 of these have aged well, they still look desirable despite their age...

an important ingredient in any design

(or dna for that matter :-0 )

paulrog1

983 posts

140 months

Saturday 11th July 2020
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I'm sorry but I don't rate Reichman at all, he's a designer who has ridden on the back for years on Ian Callum's original designs.

Ian Callum penned the original Vantage & DB9 which started the Gaydon era off, and Reichmans designs are just evolution's of Callums designs.

Reichmans designs on the 2nd gen cars are not timeless and elegant but aggressive, nothing comes close to the great cars that Ian Callum designed.




Jon39

12,782 posts

142 months

Saturday 11th July 2020
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paulrog1 said:
I'm sorry but I don't rate Reichman at all, he's a designer who has ridden on the back for years on Ian Callum's original designs.

Ian Callum penned the original Vantage & DB9 which started the Gaydon era off, and Reichmans designs are just evolution's of Callums designs.

Reichmans designs on the 2nd gen cars are not timeless and elegant but aggressive, nothing comes close to the great cars that Ian Callum designed.

I agree with your praise for Ian Callum. His Aston Martin work goes even further back than you have mentioned. Perhaps unfairly, some of his designs tend to be attributed to Henrik Fisker, who was the Aston Martin Design Director at the time of model launches.

The DB7 was an Ian Callum design. A crucial car for AML, because annual production had never before been in the thousands.
(NP) Vanquish was his second design.
The V8 Vantage was designed before the DB9, but was put on hold for some time, enabling the DB9 to be launched first. The DB9 was replacing an existing model, whereas the Vantage was to be an additional model. The Vantage was initially going to be mid-engined and I think it even reached the concept stage, but that confuguration was scrapped in July 2000, when Dr Bez became Chairman and CEO. Ian Callum then set to work on the Vantage design which we know. He claims almost all of the exterior work was his, but not any of the interior.

There is an underlying design theme which can be recognised, all the way from the DB7 in 1994 to 2018.

Do you agree that Dr Bez made the correct decision to insist on a front engine Vantage?
For me, certainly far more practical. Some even carry bikes in the boot.




Healeyguy

60 posts

45 months

Saturday 11th July 2020
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Absolutely correct to put the engine where it is, that’s what allows for the purity of the design. I dont see any point in a mid engined layout for a road car, it just complicates everything.

David Ramsbotham

291 posts

63 months

Saturday 11th July 2020
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Ulrich was completely right to scrap the mid engined car. I was part of the Management team when the mid engined car was kicked off and while I liked the idea of something different, it would not, in my opinion, have had the success the Vantage has had. Iirc we had a couple of mules running in mid engine configuration based on Ultimate underpinnings.

As far as I’m concerned Ian should be credited with the great designs from DB7 onward with, as mentioned, only tweeting from those who came after!

LTP

2,049 posts

111 months

Saturday 11th July 2020
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I'm willing to be corrected here but I was under the impression that the original Vantage design came from Henrik Fisker.

David Ramsbotham

291 posts

63 months

Saturday 11th July 2020
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A short lived tweeker in my book, basic exterior design already in place when he arrived.

Agent57

1,631 posts

153 months

Saturday 11th July 2020
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I have some sympathy. It must be a bit like following Alex Ferguson or Sean Connery. He is criticised for changing the classic design and also criticised for just tweaking the original design. Bit of a no-win situation really and with modern safety laws there is limited room for manoeuvre.


Once again to the IT guys can I mention your spell-checker appears to be American.

Healeyguy

60 posts

45 months

Saturday 11th July 2020
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In light of the mid engine Vantage that never was and the discussions on other threads about what makes an Aston Martin and what do customers want from them, I’d just like to pose the question, does Aston Martin actually need a mid engined car?

The Miura came out in 1966 and shocked Ferrari with its mid engined lay out. They soon followed with their own. So it is over 50 years that Aston Martin has been competing in the high end sports car market without a mid engined car, maybe that’s why Aston Martin owners like them. Would a mid engined car bring new owners in or alienate existing customers?

Mr.Tremlini

1,460 posts

100 months

Saturday 11th July 2020
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I don`t see why it would alienate existing customers... provided AM continue to provide the historical front/mid-engine style alternative, but I should imagine it would bring in new people to the brand that shop for that layout or look. As to if they need it, that will be decided by sales figures, across the board...

JohnG1

3,462 posts

204 months

Sunday 12th July 2020
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Healeyguy said:
In light of the mid engine Vantage that never was and the discussions on other threads about what makes an Aston Martin and what do customers want from them, I’d just like to pose the question, does Aston Martin actually need a mid engined car?

The Miura came out in 1966 and shocked Ferrari with its mid engined lay out. They soon followed with their own. So it is over 50 years that Aston Martin has been competing in the high end sports car market without a mid engined car, maybe that’s why Aston Martin owners like them. Would a mid engined car bring new owners in or alienate existing customers?
I'd suggest that you've got to view the Valkyrie for what it is "Project Nebula" - NEwey Red BULl Aston

What I mean is, Aston Martin has very limited input - Engine outsourced to Cosworth, Integral Powertrain, Rimac and so on.

Even the dynamics and calibration is by Chris Goodwin - ex-McLaren.

So, it's not really an Aston Martin.

The Valhalla seems to be a way to use the lessons learnt in a lower-price car. And Vanquish, well, let's see if that happens...

Would any of this "alienate" customers? I don't think so. As long as people can still buy what they want. If this is an extension to product range (mid-engine hypercar, mid-engine supercar, mid-engine super sports car) as well as front-mid engine sports car, front-end GT and front-mid super-GT and then DBX well, what's not to like?

Just remember that all of this internal combustion fun ends in 10 or 15 years, so enjoy it while you can!

indigodelta

22 posts

82 months

Sunday 12th July 2020
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Yeah, I think Reichman hasn't done much for the brand at all, other than talk a good job and tweak other people's great original designs. The DB7, DB9, V8 Vantage and Vanquish are all beautiful cars that he admittedly polished, but looking at the new designs under his tenure, his record is not so good.

It started to go wrong with the DB10, and the DB11 has split opinions, and the new Vantage has the worst of both cars' features, IMHO.

Don't rate him, I'm afraid

mhurley

823 posts

132 months

Sunday 12th July 2020
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Vanquish 2 is my fav Aston design

dbs2000

2,681 posts

191 months

Monday 13th July 2020
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paulrog1 said:
I'm sorry but I don't rate Reichman at all, he's a designer who has ridden on the back for years on Ian Callum's original designs.

Ian Callum penned the original Vantage & DB9 which started the Gaydon era off, and Reichmans designs are just evolution's of Callums designs.

Reichmans designs on the 2nd gen cars are not timeless and elegant but aggressive, nothing comes close to the great cars that Ian Callum designed.
I have to agree with this. If the current 3 'main' cars were the options 7 or 8 years ago I'd probably not be an AM owner. The V8 Vantage led me to the V12 Vantage which led me to the DBS, the main theme being they were all pretty and good to drive. DB11 aside I'd not consider the new cars and find the new DBS a poorly executed extension of the DB11. All imo of course.

Sebastian Tombs

2,044 posts

191 months

Monday 13th July 2020
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indigodelta said:
Yeah, I think Reichman hasn't done much for the brand at all, other than talk a good job and tweak other people's great original designs. The DB7, DB9, V8 Vantage and Vanquish are all beautiful cars that he admittedly polished, but looking at the new designs under his tenure, his record is not so good.

It started to go wrong with the DB10, and the DB11 has split opinions, and the new Vantage has the worst of both cars' features, IMHO.

Don't rate him, I'm afraid
Me neither. I'm not convinced about Miles Nurnberger or Leighanne Earley either, though I presume they work under his direction.

I am of the opinion that almost everything Reichman's team did to tweak Callum's original DB9 and Vantage designs made them look that little bit worse, that little bit less resolved, less subtle, and fussier. The sills, the bumper changes, the flip tail, the wider arches on the Vantage, the pointy headlights on the DB9, The only exterior DB9 detail I don't like is the front indicator, which could have been a nicer LED thing, like the Vantage (but keeping the DB9 headlight shape)

About the only production changes to them that I think improved the looks were the change to a 5 bar grille and the switch from Jaguar to Volvo door mirrors.

As for the DB11, it's grown on me, but the headlight shape is willfully weird, and the floating rear pillars looks wrong.
I don't like anything about the design of the new Vantage. Leaving aside the fussy overdesigned rear and the gaping fish mouth I think it is a fundamentally badly proportioned car from the side, and it's way too wide as well.

Noogly

420 posts

269 months

Monday 13th July 2020
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Reichman (or the board) made the decision to continue the Aston family DNA that Callum initiated, those Callum designs were so good that it would have been silly to do anything else. For my money Reichman made the newer cars too aggressive, however each to his own. The 177 is great, but owes a lot to the other models of the time. What would a clean sheet Reichman design look like? Is it the mid engined cars?

Emilio Largo

582 posts

110 months

Monday 13th July 2020
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CB07 said:
However a finer or cooler looking four door you will not find.
Yes, you do: Lagonda Taraf - for me personally the design masterpiece of the Reichman period (whoever created it). Of course too large and ridiculously expensive but the design is ace and for my taste just what the (Lagonda) Rapide should have been like. But I am terribly old-fashioned and afraid no-one buys classic "three box" designed saloons any more which is sad.



Another "Reichman" creation that has strongly grown on me over the years is the DB9.2 (why isn´t this called Mk.II??) - a well known architect in my city used to drive one and I can see why - it´s like a sculpture or monument.