Potential new owner - advice/opinion

[dodgepot]

Hi

I'm considering moving from my Tuscan to an Ultima and have been looking at this one reasonably close to me.

https://www.pistonheads.com/buy/listing/10672296?c...

I can't access the Ultima group on Facebook as I'm not a owner and getting info is not the easiest thing to accomplish

Putting aside opinions on the livery which really depends on your taste, does anyone have any observations that I should be considering in my deliberations.

Obviously it has no rear wing which aesthetically I like, but what sort of speeds are we looking at before the wing becomes essential rather than nice to have. The car will be used mainly on the road with occasional trackdays

Thanks
Mark

[TR3B]

I can't access the Facebook group either but mostly because I'm a grown up and I don't use websites designed for children.

That car looks awesome and if Autobionics did most of it, it's gotta be a winner. You can add the wing anytime if you feel like you need it but judging from all that unblemished paint, it looks like they've managed without one okay.

Edited by TR3B on Monday 21st September 05:18

[UltimaCH]

Not sure, but was wondering if this vehicle is the one which has been on the market for a very long time.

P.S. I'm over 70 so an old gitt and grown up but still use FB and other sites with no child withdrawal symptoms

Edited by UltimaCH on Monday 21st September 09:34

[dodgepot]

UltimaCH said:

Not sure, but was wondering if this vehicle is the one which has been on the market for a very long time.

P.S. I'm over 70 so an old gitt and grown up but still use FB and other sites with no child withdrawal symptoms

Edited by UltimaCH on Monday 21st September 09:34

There was a question about it July 19 when it was at the same dealer so they've obviously had it since then. The guy didn't get any replies so I couldn't glean any info.

[TR3B]

UltimaCH said:

Not sure, but was wondering if this vehicle is the one which has been on the market for a very long time.

P.S. I'm over 70 so an old gitt and grown up but still use FB and other sites with no child withdrawal symptoms

Edited by UltimaCH on Monday 21st September 09:34

In their defense, it's kind of a weird time to buy or sell a car like that right now. I wouldn't take lot longevity as any sort of sign necessarily.

[mybrainhurts]

Might sell if someone removes those bloody awful stickers.

[dandare]

TR3B said:

I can't access the Facebook group either but mostly because I'm a grown up and I don't use websites designed for children.

That car looks awesome and if Autobionics did most of it, it's gotta be a winner. You can add the wing anytime if you feel like you need it but judging from all that unblemished paint, it looks like they've managed without one okay.

Edited by TR3B on Monday 21st September 05:18

It seems like the owner never needed a spoiler because it has never been on a track. It's a pity, really.
I hope the new owner will drive it hard.

[dodgepot]

dandare said:

It seems like the owner never needed a spoiler because it has never been on a track. It's a pity, really.
I hope the new owner will drive it hard.

What sort of speed are we looking at before a wing is required? Is it literally only required for track purposes

thanks

[BobE]

dodgepot said:

dandare said:

It seems like the owner never needed a spoiler because it has never been on a track. It's a pity, really.
I hope the new owner will drive it hard.

What sort of speed are we looking at before a wing is required? Is it literally only required for track purposes

thanks

I’ve never seen the downforce level quoted by the factory for the rear wing at any speed. However the downforce is going to be related to the square of the speed - so from 70mph to 140mph the downforce is four times more for the aerofoil. There is also likely to be a stability issue as well - as an example the original Audi TT didn’t have a rear spoiler until some drivers lost control making high speed manoeuvres. My Jaguar F type has a rear spoiler that activates at 70 mph for similar reasons. As a personal opinion I think the cars look very odd without one - no Group C cars were wingless. I also think that car looks ridiculous with the JPS livery - again a personal opinion - you’d get a away with it with a Lotus but not an Ultima.
You might want to ask the factory for advice by the rear wing performance.

[dodgepot]

BobE said:

I’ve never seen the downforce level quoted by the factory for the rear wing at any speed. However the downforce is going to be related to the square of the speed - so from 70mph to 140mph the downforce is four times more for the aerofoil. There is also likely to be a stability issue as well - as an example the original Audi TT didn’t have a rear spoiler until some drivers lost control making high speed manoeuvres. My Jaguar F type has a rear spoiler that activates at 70 mph for similar reasons. As a personal opinion I think the cars look very odd without one - no Group C cars were wingless. I also think that car looks ridiculous with the JPS livery - again a personal opinion - you’d get a away with it with a Lotus but not an Ultima.
You might want to ask the factory for advice by the rear wing performance.

Thanks, I'll ping the factory an email and see what they have to say

[Steve_D]

IMO the car looks wrong without the wing.
Not tried it without (all the cars i've driven at speed have had one) but I think thing will start to become interesting above 100 without.

If the graphics are not to your taste try and find out if the car is still in gel coat or has it been painted. If you were not aware most Ultima are gel coat.
You also need to be aware that the black gel can suffer UV problems where the black can start to go brown. This may not be evident until you remove the graphics.
Nice looking car though.

Steve

[dodgepot]

Steve_D said:

IMO the car looks wrong without the wing.
Not tried it without (all the cars i've driven at speed have had one) but I think thing will start to become interesting above 100 without.

If the graphics are not to your taste try and find out if the car is still in gel coat or has it been painted. If you were not aware most Ultima are gel coat.
You also need to be aware that the black gel can suffer UV problems where the black can start to go brown. This may not be evident until you remove the graphics.
Nice looking car though.

Steve

We'll see if the factory responds to my email, but the FAQs on there say
"The car can be driven at high speeds quite safely without the rear wing so it is only needed to optimise downforce and for 200+mph runs."

the car is in gel coat and whilst I wouldn't have necessarily put those graphics on from scratch, I wouldn't hurry to remove them and would
live with it for some time

[dodgepot]

Speedy response from the factory re the wing

"No a rear wing isn't required for road and occasional track use, the same as with most cars.


For top speed runs of over 180mph and if you wanted to destroy other supercars around a track, a rear wing is required."

[dandare]

As said by BobE, a wing will provide useful downforce with higher cornering forces.

The reply by the factory is as expected. No real answers. They probably don't know, to be fair.

A car with no aerodynamic downforce, probably won't corner as quickly as the same car with more weight (or aerodynamic downforce). Of course aero-downforce is usually better than extra weight for plenty of reasons.

Hence an Ultima could be embarrassed around corners by a much smaller-tyred car, which is why people who drive Ultimas on the track, usually fit aerodynamic aids.

Ask Johnny from MacG Racing why he runs a spoiler. He's probably qualified to comment, and sometimes appears on this forum.
I assume he has noticed a difference, not only at 180mph plus.

I think the Ultima looks pretty good with or without a rear wing/spoiler. I prefer it with a wing, though.

I don't see the point of stickers unless they are sponsors, or you are advertising that you use certain components (Chevy power or Mobil oil for example), but I suppose they can usefully hide some of the awkward design aspects of the car. Each to their own.

[renmure]

I like the graphics but I’ve always thought the wing was needed to complete the whole look. I wouldn’t be concerned buying a car without a wing but fitting one would be the first thing I did.

[dodgepot]

Thanks all for the info, gratefully received.

I may not be pursuing the car in question, but while I'm on, does anyone know of a specialist who knows Ultimas in the south east who could carry out an inspection. - Just found a 2007 canam on autotrader of all places.

I'm assuming PH, car and classic , autotrader are the main places to look for a car?

cheers

mark

[BogBeast]

http://www.charlesdunn.uk.com/

http://www.southwaysautomotive.co.uk/ultima/

[deadscoob]

That car has been for sale fora long time and I think a few on here have either seen it or experience of the dealer.
£90k no expense spared build? No.

If you’re thinking of buying have you contacted the fb group admin?

I can’t disagree with tr3 however as the fb group is the main source of community info now I have to accept using it.

[Ult-Jim]

BogBeast said:

http://www.charlesdunn.uk.com/

http://www.southwaysautomotive.co.uk/ultima/

With hindsight if you are as keen as mustard to own one of these cars as I was 10 years ago, contact these guys. With the knowledge they have, I would easily pay them for their time to spill the beams, give you the do's and don'ts, what to look for, inform you what you are getting into, etc. Well worth it to prevent buying a dog, that will cost a lot to put right.

[dodgepot]

Ult-Jim said:

With hindsight if you are as keen as mustard to own one of these cars as I was 10 years ago, contact these guys. With the knowledge they have, I would easily pay them for their time to spill the beams, give you the do's and don'ts, what to look for, inform you what you are getting into, etc. Well worth it to prevent buying a dog, that will cost a lot to put right.

I've emailed Charles Dunn to enquire about an inspection/report on a can-am in west London, just awaiting a reply.

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202007241...

this is the car if anyone knows it or has any comment