Thoughts on supercharging v8v?

[geresey]

I've not seen this discussed in the forum before so didn't even know it was a thing until this week. Booking in my next service, the indy talked about planning to put one on his (planned) v8 vantage. By coincidence I then saw one with a supercharger kit advertised on PH just now, so looked it up. I'm not planning on doing it, just wondered what the forum experts think of the idea?
https://www.evo.co.uk/aston-martin/v12-vantage/708...

[LTP]

geresey said:

I've not seen this discussed in the forum before so didn't even know it was a thing until this week. Booking in my next service, the indy talked about planning to put one on his (planned) v8 vantage. By coincidence I then saw one with a supercharger kit advertised on PH just now, so looked it up. I'm not planning on doing it, just wondered what the forum experts think of the idea?
https://www.evo.co.uk/aston-martin/v12-vantage/708...

Rich of Redpants runs a supercharged 4.3 and he sometimes posts on here (I forget his user name on PH.

[AstonV]

[JohnG1]

geresey said:

I've not seen this discussed in the forum before so didn't even know it was a thing until this week. Booking in my next service, the indy talked about planning to put one on his (planned) v8 vantage. By coincidence I then saw one with a supercharger kit advertised on PH just now, so looked it up. I'm not planning on doing it, just wondered what the forum experts think of the idea?
https://www.evo.co.uk/aston-martin/v12-vantage/708...

A few years back some chap turned up on this forum discussing this modification. He got a little bit fractious, maybe it was his dinner time or he missed a nap. Anyway, have a look for this using Google rather than the forum search.

Short answer - look at the Range Rover supercharged V8 compression ratios and set-up versus the AML 4.3 and 4.7 v8.

Each to their own, but I wouldn't with your barge pole...

[Jon39]

My grandpa told me, that supercharging was quite a popular power modification during the 1960s.
Shorrock was the main name. It was an easy DIY bolt on exercise, just like fitting a dynamo.

A friend of his had an Austin 1100 (bigger brother of the Mini), and not a very powerful car.
With the Shorrock fitted it became great fun. Instantly much more powerful. The inside front wheel would spin when driving out of corners and there was a glorious wailing sound, which becaime louder as the supercharger spun faster.

Then one day, after quite a while of enjoying the much faster car,
BANG, the engine became many pieces of scap metal.
Those BMC engines were quite cheap, so a replacement was soon fitted, but without the supercharger.
It was fun while it lasted.

They said, "It is the extra heat wot did it".

The fashion just seem to go away.
Heat still seems to be the problem. I think a much lower compression ratio, is one of the first essentials for supercharging.

[ds666]

JohnG1 said:

A few years back some chap turned up on this forum discussing this modification. He got a little bit fractious, maybe it was his dinner time or he missed a nap. Anyway, have a look for this using Google rather than the forum search.

Short answer - look at the Range Rover supercharged V8 compression ratios and set-up versus the AML 4.3 and 4.7 v8.

Each to their own, but I wouldn't with your barge pole...

There are lots and lots of after market supercharger kits being run successfully without issue fitted to standard engines . The m3 e46 kit is one example .
Chap round my way runs a GMR supercharged vantage , loves it , another is run successfully in club sprints and hill climbs .

So the reality is that they can and do work .
But it isn’t a cheap conversion in a Vantage

Bamford Rose will never comment on the fact that lots of people have used after market kits successfully .


But you have pulled the pin ... let’s see what happens (again )

[Neil1300r]

I had a brief discussion with GMR a few years ago. Ignoring the engineering- does it produce the power claimed etc, they wouldn't guarantee the engine once the work was done. Whilst I could see their viewpoint that they didn't know what state the engine was in prior to their work, they were basically asking for a shed load of money with no guarantees that they wouldn't damage your engine.

They also recommended brake upgrades and then better suspension. All in all more than the cost to change to a V12 Vantage with no guarantees

[baconsarney]

Jon39 said:

I think a much lower compression ratio, is one of the first essentials for supercharging.

Considered supercharging/turbocharging the Chim after a number of the TVR gang had some spectacular results for relatively little cost, but I had a new block and some serious mods to mine after the original block went porous, which included forged pistons and a high (compared to standard) compression ratio (and a whole bunch of other stuff such as cam with quite a bit of overlap)... as such I would have only been able to run low boost, and not achieve the power outputs that the higher boost figures give... new low compression pistons and more suitable cam would have been another engine rebuild, which made the whole thing a hugely expensive exercise on something that was already more than fast enough for public roads, and pointless for track days which for me have always been about corners

Just my two penneth....

[liner33]

Had a bolt on supercharger on my 370z , took the power from 332hp to 490hp ,CR was 11/1 and engine was totally stock

These kind of kits are extremely common in the US on v6 and v8 engines and work really well.

It’s just a case of finding a specialist for your application

[leerandle]

If it was me, I would rather spend the money and put it into a v12 or just do all the mechanical mods to the v8 headers/cats, remap, twin plate clutch, upgraded dampers, bigger brakes etc to make it just a better all round car. I think you can even go down the gt4 engine path and that could deliver similar results but maybe without all the exaggerated/promo BHP that comes with the supercharger.

I think the supercharger option on a Vantage is still frowned upon but at the end of the day, its down to you and what you want.

Each to their own !

[bogie]

The big issue with the SC conversion was the cost when new and lack of any warranty on the engine (just the conversion parts)

So you spent £20k and if your engine failed you were on your own. The £20k on top of a good V8 at the time brought it close to low end V12 money. The latter being a safe bet from depreciation perspective, whereas trying to sell a modified used old Vantage with an SC conversion has limited market appeal.

So who is the target market for the Vantage Supercharger ? its a niche car and even more niche appeal conversion.

Im all for superchargers where it makes sense. I used to run a SC Honda engined Elise very well for some years. Thats a £3500 off the shelf SC conversion from Jackson Racing on top a couple of grand lightly used mainstream 4 cyl engine. 300-320bhp in an 800kg car made it very appealing from a price/performance ratio. It also came with an unlimited mileage no quibble warranty on the total package from the company doing the conversion. That's what gave owners the confidence in it and it became a popular conversion 15 years ago that still maintain their used value now.

[anonymous-user]

Jon39 said:

My grandpa told me, that supercharging was quite a popular power modification during the 1960s.
Shorrock was the main name. It was an easy DIY bolt on exercise, just like fitting a dynamo.

A friend of his had an Austin 1100 (bigger brother of the Mini), and not a very powerful car.
With the Shorrock fitted it became great fun. Instantly much more powerful. The inside front wheel would spin when driving out of corners and there was a glorious wailing sound, which becaime louder as the supercharger spun faster.

Then one day, after quite a while of enjoying the much faster car,
BANG, the engine became many pieces of scap metal.
Those BMC engines were quite cheap, so a replacement was soon fitted, but without the supercharger.
It was fun while it lasted.

They said, "It is the extra heat wot did it".

The fashion just seem to go away.
Heat still seems to be the problem. I think a much lower compression ratio, is one of the first essentials for supercharging.

It's entirely possible to bolt a supercharger onto most engines without making substantial internal upgrades, the caveat being you don't turn the blower at anything approaching sizeable overdrive. At 1:1 it's probably safe, but you cannot expect much of a horsepower increase, in fact unless the blower's quite efficient, it might sap power - superchargers take an amount of power to turn them, and they tend to raise the intake temperature if you aren't using a charge cooler. In those circumstances, it'll produce little boost, and the only perk becomes bragging rights of having a supercharged engine on board.

The truth is, to gain a meaningful increase in power by supercharging (or indeed, turbocharging), requires lowering the compression ratio (for 97 or 99 octane fuel) to around 8 - 8.5:1, along with changing the cam(s). Larger exhaust valve lift and duration are necessary because otherwise it's just a waste of time. At the end of the day, the engine is simply a big fluid & air pump and you're trying to process more fuel and air through it (efficiently), which when you increase the intake side of the equation, you need to address how all that extra pressure exits the combustion process because the cam spec was chosen for a predetermined volume of air or fuel (which would have since changed).

In any case, superchargers are wonderful, but there's a time and a place.


obligatory proper supercharger photo...

[Neil1300r]

NFC 85 Vette said:

In any case, superchargers are wonderful, but there's a time and a place.


obligatory proper supercharger photo...

This a proper (Aston) supercharger photo

[RMDB9]

bogie said:

So who is the target market for the Vantage Supercharger ? its a niche car and even more niche appeal conversion.

Probably somebody who already owns a Vantage and who believes he can easily do most of the work himself.

[bogie]

RMDB9 said:

bogie said:

So who is the target market for the Vantage Supercharger ? its a niche car and even more niche appeal conversion.

Probably somebody who already owns a Vantage and who believes he can easily do most of the work himself.

Ah...I didnt realise they offered the kit for DIY installs, i thought it was £20k only installed by approved supplier etc. If it was £12k and DIY then I could start to see the appeal, its not like you have an engine warranty anyway.

[LTP]

bogie said:

its not like you have an engine warranty anyway.

Or, if Mike is right, even an engine at all

[RMDB9]

bogie said:

RMDB9 said:

bogie said:

So who is the target market for the Vantage Supercharger ? its a niche car and even more niche appeal conversion.

Probably somebody who already owns a Vantage and who believes he can easily do most of the work himself.

Ah...I didnt realise they offered the kit for DIY installs, i thought it was £20k only installed by approved supplier etc. If it was £12k and DIY then I could start to see the appeal, its not like you have an engine warranty anyway.

Ha ha ha you are so funny hahaha
haha

ha
haha

[geresey]

AstonV said:

Thanks, I think these BR vids answer the question pretty well! As someone else said, it definitely turned out to be a "pull the pin" post given how the thread went.. .. Apologies, that wasn't the intention. Needless to say, this is not something I'd ever contemplate doing, but even less so now!

[AstonV]

geresey said:

Thanks, I think these BR vids answer the question pretty well! As someone else said, it definitely turned out to be a "pull the pin" post given how the thread went.. .. Apologies, that wasn't the intention. Needless to say, this is not something I'd ever contemplate doing, but even less so now!

Plus it's a ridiculous amount of money for not so good returns, IMO.

[MichaelV8V]

You should probably think through the numbers on those videos, from memory, there is an assumption that if you supercharge a 2 litre engine and it gives you x bhp, then supercharging an engine more than twice the size will still just give you x bhp more. Even though at a given pressure, it will actually pack far more mixture into the larger cylinders of the bigger engine.

If Mike's theory is right, then supercharging my 50cc moped will give it more power than a 1200cc superbike.