Man After My Own Heart ... The Future Isn't Electric
Discussion
Finding Neutral said:
I agree. The amount of money that’s been pushed in to ev’s has caused them to evolve, like many things would with that resource
Really? Cause Biofuels have been mandated into pump fuel for over a decade now. And cars have been compatible with E10 too.The UK gov also changed laws on biofuels to mean you could run a few thousand litres without duty.
But the manufacturers haven't taken it up. Neither have the fuel providers that have struggled with feedstock some years.
Equally, hundreds of millions has gone into hydrogen in the UK and Europe. There are 2, two, cars supposedly on market but almost impossible to buy. And approximately a dozen filling stations.
Evanivitch said:
Finding Neutral said:
I agree. The amount of money that’s been pushed in to ev’s has caused them to evolve, like many things would with that resource
Really? Cause Biofuels have been mandated into pump fuel for over a decade now. And cars have been compatible with E10 too.The UK gov also changed laws on biofuels to mean you could run a few thousand litres without duty.
But the manufacturers haven't taken it up. Neither have the fuel providers that have struggled with feedstock some years.
Equally, hundreds of millions has gone into hydrogen in the UK and Europe. There are 2, two, cars supposedly on market but almost impossible to buy. And approximately a dozen filling stations.
Basically in a situation where you need more to go further.
Oilchange said:
... .For the record I think hybrids are the future, electric to get going the short distance to the highway, then biofuels etc take over for the long haul, then the recharged electric for the final mile or two.
Unless you happen to be an unlucky motorist, having to scrap a £50,000 PHEV at 8 years old.
The owner was so pleased when he bought his new car of the future.
There does seem to be a great deal to be wary of and understand about EVs, PHEVs etc., before just following a current trend promoted by car manufacturers and governments.
Evanivitch said:
I'm intrigued.
The only 8 year old PHEVs I know are Ampera's, Outlander and i3 REX. None are £50,000.
Not quite £50k but my 2019 Outlander (company purchase) fully loaded was only a few grand shy of that figure.The only 8 year old PHEVs I know are Ampera's, Outlander and i3 REX. None are £50,000.
In short, very poor range from both electric and petrol...fuel tank is reduced in capacity due to battery pack! Quality of interior is poor, reliability has been good so far with around 60k on the clock from new. This figure would be near 100k had we not have been locked down for large parts of the last few years.
I'm not surprised Mitsubishi have pulled out of Europe, they are way off the pace in terms of quality, fit and finish when compared to alternatives.
Finding Neutral said:
The price savings on ev’s in terms of running costs won’t last long. It didn’t with diesel or lpg and the gov have gaps to plug. It’s already begun.
Government is already looking at ways of taxing them and metering the power separately.
twas always going to be thus - the government will be looking to raise as much revenue as possible from electric cars sooner rather than later. ANyone who thinks otherwise is (possibly) deludedGovernment is already looking at ways of taxing them and metering the power separately.
Evanivitch said:
Dewi 2 said:
Unless you happen to be an unlucky motorist, having to scrap a £50,000 PHEV at 8 years old.
The owner was probably so pleased when he bought his new car of the future.
I'm intrigued. The owner was probably so pleased when he bought his new car of the future.
The only 8 year old PHEVs I know are Ampera's, Outlander and i3 REX. None are £50,000.
Make of it what you will.
A newspaper report, so may or may not be true.
Before seeing this story, I had assumed that after a battery pack reaches end of life, a hybrid car could continue to be used as an IC car.
It appears not so.
I have been happily using a Mercedes car for 19 years. Not much of an incentive, to think a replacement might be scrap at 10 years old.
I think a Nissan Leaf battery pack can be replaced with modest labour cost. Is it the premium cars which are far more complex, therefore making replacement so much more involved and costly?
These thoughts will obviously not be relevant, to the 'only use for the first 3 years' motorists.
Subsequent owners will face the risk and many of them will be used to modest cost motoring.
https://www.lincolnshirelive.co.uk/news/uk-world-n...
Dewi 2 said:
Make of it what you will.
A newspaper report, so may or may not be true.
The battery was dead outside of warranty, like millions of ICE before it, the manufacturer doesn't care.A newspaper report, so may or may not be true.
I'm pretty certain the car could continue to be used as a ICE, albeit a far less efficient one and won't pass MOT with Engine Warning Light on.
Dewi 2 said:
I think a Nissan Leaf battery pack can be replaced with modest labour cost. Is it the premium cars which are far more complex, therefore making replacement so much more involved and costly?
It's not a more complex car necessarily, though the battery may be physically harder to access. But it's a car that sold in relatively small volumes, and which has little support in independent market.Evanivitch said:
It's not a more complex car necessarily, though the battery may be physically harder to access. But it's a car that sold in relatively small volumes, and which has little support in independent market.
Have you heard that some Mercedes-Benz main dealers do not have any qualified technicians, to work on EVs and PHEVs?
Customer cars requiring repair (could it be service as well?) are being moved to and from other dealers, where qualified EV technicians are available.
Dewi 2 said:
Evanivitch said:
It's not a more complex car necessarily, though the battery may be physically harder to access. But it's a car that sold in relatively small volumes, and which has little support in independent market.
Have you heard that some Mercedes-Benz main dealers do not have any qualified technicians, to work on EVs and PHEVs?
Customer cars requiring repair (could it be service as well?) are being moved to and from other dealers, where qualified EV technicians are available.
There’s a fair few ev’s not necessarily premium ones either that will be written off if the cells fail as the cells are more to replace than the car is often worth.
Dewi 2 said:
Evanivitch said:
It's not a more complex car necessarily, though the battery may be physically harder to access. But it's a car that sold in relatively small volumes, and which has little support in independent market.
Have you heard that some Mercedes-Benz main dealers do not have any qualified technicians, to work on EVs and PHEVs?Customer cars requiring repair (could it be service as well?) are being moved to and from other dealers, where qualified EV technicians are available.
Similarly, my Vauxhall Ampera was originally only serviced at a few dozen dealerships nationwide because of scary, scary battery.
DodgyGeezer said:
Finding Neutral said:
The price savings on ev’s in terms of running costs won’t last long. It didn’t with diesel or lpg and the gov have gaps to plug. It’s already begun.
Government is already looking at ways of taxing them and metering the power separately.
twas always going to be thus - the government will be looking to raise as much revenue as possible from electric cars sooner rather than later. ANyone who thinks otherwise is (possibly) deludedGovernment is already looking at ways of taxing them and metering the power separately.
we've had 5 years of cheap motoring - we have leased both of them - around £350 a month which is no more than we would have spent on a normal car of similar spec/performance
Other half did 2800 miles in march - at 40mpg and 1.70 a litre fuel that would cost £540.98 in an ICE car.
Cost us £89.60 ish in electric - Saved us £450 that month alone.
for an ICE to cost that little to run it would need to average 250mpg
it's not for everyone, but for the vast majority it is, you've just got to open your eyes.
(just to blow your mind further, other half gets the standard 45pence per mile back for business travel - around 2000 miles were business. you do the math)
Pixelpeep 135 said:
We've had 5 years of cheap motoring - we have leased both of them - around £350 a month which is no more than we would have spent on a normal car of similar spec/performance
Other half did 2800 miles in march - at 40mpg and 1.70 a litre fuel that would cost £540.98 in an ICE car.
Cost us £89.60 ish in electric - Saved us £450 that month alone.
for an ICE to cost that little to run it would need to average 250mpg
(just to blow your mind further, other half gets the standard 45pence per mile back for business travel - around 2000 miles were business. you do the math)
Other half did 2800 miles in march - at 40mpg and 1.70 a litre fuel that would cost £540.98 in an ICE car.
Cost us £89.60 ish in electric - Saved us £450 that month alone.
for an ICE to cost that little to run it would need to average 250mpg
(just to blow your mind further, other half gets the standard 45pence per mile back for business travel - around 2000 miles were business. you do the math)
All very interesting.
You are on an Aston Martin forum.
Our buying motives begin with beautiful designs.
For a work of art, saving money is not a top priority.
You seem to be keen of minimising cost, so you might be interested that my Aston Martin first went down in value, but has since risen and is now worth about what I paid for it 10 years ago.
Your 5 year use figures indicate £350x60= £ 21,000.
Mine is 10 years = £ Zero.
'(just to blow your mind further)'
Sorry - mind not blown and you appear to be indicating that I am £42,000 ahead after 10 years !
Have you thought about having an Aston Martin? Keep it for a while, look after it, and your motoring might become even cheaper.
Don't tell anyone. Cars are not supposed to appreciate.
Evanivitch said:
BiggaJ said:
Not quite £50k but my 2019 Outlander (company purchase) fully loaded was only a few grand shy of that figure.
Impressive given the top spec was £35k after the government grants. Wasn't aware Mitsubishi had a Porsche style options list.I seem to remember looking at the P11D value when doing my tax return and thinking it was a lot of money for the type of car .... From my rusty memory a figure close to £47k I think.
DodgyGeezer said:
twas always going to be thus - the government will be looking to raise as much revenue as possible from electric cars sooner rather than later. ANyone who thinks otherwise is (possibly) deluded
Totally agree, get everyone into so called "green" cars pushed through by legislation, make it appetising in the first place to get the ball rolling then once they become the norm hit the owner for doing as they are told. Pixelpeep 135 said:
Other half did 2800 miles in march
Cost us £89.60 ish in electric
Your cost per mile is very good going. Cost us £89.60 ish in electric
As an owner of an EV for the last three years my average has been around 38kw per 100 mile.
Or at 2.63miles per kw from a current Rapid public charger (yesterday) at 50p per kw (They now charge 20% vat) means my EV would have cost me £532.32 to cover those 2800 miles!
Even if I charged it at home it would have cost me 30p per kw total of £320
From all the EV road test I have read my car is very much in line with their findings on range.
Jon39 said:
Pixelpeep 135 said:
We've had 5 years of cheap motoring - we have leased both of them - around £350 a month which is no more than we would have spent on a normal car of similar spec/performance
Other half did 2800 miles in march - at 40mpg and 1.70 a litre fuel that would cost £540.98 in an ICE car.
Cost us £89.60 ish in electric - Saved us £450 that month alone.
for an ICE to cost that little to run it would need to average 250mpg
(just to blow your mind further, other half gets the standard 45pence per mile back for business travel - around 2000 miles were business. you do the math)
Other half did 2800 miles in march - at 40mpg and 1.70 a litre fuel that would cost £540.98 in an ICE car.
Cost us £89.60 ish in electric - Saved us £450 that month alone.
for an ICE to cost that little to run it would need to average 250mpg
(just to blow your mind further, other half gets the standard 45pence per mile back for business travel - around 2000 miles were business. you do the math)
All very interesting.
You are on an Aston Martin forum.
Our buying motives begin with beautiful designs.
For a work of art, saving money is not a top priority.
You seem to be keen of minimising cost, so you might be interested that my Aston Martin first went down in value, but has since risen and is now worth about what I paid for it 10 years ago.
Your 5 year use figures indicate £350x60= £ 21,000.
Mine is 10 years = £ Zero.
'(just to blow your mind further)'
Sorry - mind not blown and you appear to be indicating that I am £42,000 ahead after 10 years !
Have you thought about having an Aston Martin? Keep it for a while, look after it, and your motoring might become even cheaper.
Don't tell anyone. Cars are not supposed to appreciate.
Unfortunately it is a pointless comparison. Are you doing 2800 miles a month in your investment? will it still be appreciating when it hits 300k miles?
using your 10 year example your car would have 300k miles on it and @ 25mpg would have cost you just over £100k in fuel.
We haven't even factored in servicing or general wear (based on around 35k miles pa), not to mention the original purchase price.
an ICE'd aston is not a sound investment as a commuting car, is it?
An AM is a beautiful car (pretty much every single one) but no one in their right mind would want to put 300k miles on it, from either running costs or future value points of view.
The aston is for enjoying, in your down time.
An EV is for doing the dirty work and saving you money.
Cake. And. Eat it.
Obviously if you are retired/work from home or don't need to work this won't apply to you. But for many, it really does work.
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