£80-90K max. 2015 V12VSR or 2018 V8 AMR Roadster?

£80-90K max. 2015 V12VSR or 2018 V8 AMR Roadster?

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Linkin

Original Poster:

144 posts

156 months

Tuesday 21st March 2023
quotequote all
This question has been flying round my head for months. (I know, first world problems and all that)

I know i'm bound to love both of them, but...

V8 AMR
More modern. Lower mileage.
I love the revised haptics and waterfall dash.
AMR is special-ish although no performance mods that i can see over a V8VSR
It's not a V12

OR

V12VSR
It's a V12!
But has the analogue dash which seems so dated.
SS3 better than SS2

Which will have the more solid residuals?

If i sit on my hands, will the 2016+ Facelift V12 market come to my budget.... or will it drift further away?

Any insights/moments of inspiration gratefully received....

LTP

2,051 posts

111 months

Tuesday 21st March 2023
quotequote all
Linkin said:
Any insights/moments of inspiration gratefully received....
An SSII can effectively be made into an SSIII by the simple expedient of having an independent like BR, DAE or Martin's Independent fit a twin-plate clutch. Other than that and the software calibration, I believe it's the same 7-speed 'box. You could also have a lightened flywheel fitted, which I've read enlivens the engine response as well.

Phil74891

1,064 posts

132 months

Tuesday 21st March 2023
quotequote all
I would 100% go V12. If you get a V8 you may end up wishing you’d bought a V12. It almost certainly wouldn’t be the other way around.

V12 will likely have better residuals. SSIII is much better than SSII.

I would test drive as many as you can, and don’t put too much emphasis on the dash. Obviously personal preference, but many prefer the old style.

See if you can find one with lightweight seats. Far superior to sports to most, but not all owners.

AdamV12V

4,987 posts

176 months

Tuesday 21st March 2023
quotequote all
V12VS - 100%, you’ll never regret going that way but you may (or may not) regret going only for the V8V even if it is a newer AMR version.

Best of both worlds wait for the coming drop (subjective viewpoint), and grab a MY17-> car, all the niggles sorted by then and has the AMi III infotainment which is superb - has carplay amongst many other big improvements.

nickv12

1,342 posts

82 months

Wednesday 22nd March 2023
quotequote all
Phil74891 said:
I would 100% go V12. If you get a V8 you may end up wishing you’d bought a V12. It almost certainly wouldn’t be the other way around.

V12 will likely have better residuals. SSIII is much better than SSII.

I would test drive as many as you can, and don’t put too much emphasis on the dash. Obviously personal preference, but many prefer the old style.

See if you can find one with lightweight seats. Far superior to sports to most, but not all owners.
Phil is wise beyond his years. Exactly what he says.

…apart from… biggrin

I had the SSII box on my 2016 V8S and now the SSIII box on my 2018 V12 AMR. I can’t tell the different. Both are brilliant and really suit the car.

Like Phil says, the dash design is a personal preference thing. I actually prefer the look of the pre-haptic one and it’s easier to use on the move. (Inherently a problem with haptic buttons that you often have to check you’re stabbing the right one.)

If you do get a pre-Apple CarPlay model (only available in 2017-2018), simply take it to Aston Installations in Tewkesbury and they can very neatly retro fit a more advanced one. They also do kits or allow others to install it for you.

In reality, whichever you get, you’ll grin and find it an excellent downpayment on your second Aston scratchchin

Linkin

Original Poster:

144 posts

156 months

Wednesday 22nd March 2023
quotequote all
Thanks for the replies everyone.

Next thing then....
Other than Pistonheads and Autotrader, how do i find my 2016+ V12VSR with Sports Seats, at a reasonable cost!! ??
Or am i searching for the purest unobtainium?

Linkin

Original Poster:

144 posts

156 months

Wednesday 22nd March 2023
quotequote all

Any thoughts on this one?

https://www.pistonheads.com/buy/listing/14433336

I've received the walk-around video.
It seems nice, but the side-strakes are pitted which is either a thing or it worries me if the car has been well looked after.
2015, so the older style dash and infotainment.
On the plus side, it has the sports-seats.

AdamV12V

4,987 posts

176 months

Wednesday 22nd March 2023
quotequote all
Linkin said:
Any thoughts on this one?

https://www.pistonheads.com/buy/listing/14433336

I've received the walk-around video.
It seems nice, but the side-strakes are pitted which is either a thing or it worries me if the car has been well looked after.
2015, so the older style dash and infotainment.
On the plus side, it has the sports-seats.
The car seems only to have the std 160W audio which would be a dealbreaker for me. Premium or B&O are both infinetely better, but then if your not the kind of person who cares about music, as many dont, then it may not matter, other than resale.

Those are the lightweight bucket seats, not the sports seats. Perhaps confusingly, sports seats is name used for the standard seats.

Phil74891

1,064 posts

132 months

Wednesday 22nd March 2023
quotequote all
Re the car at AM Bristol. It looks great. Some comments:

Those are the much better (in my view) Lightweight seats, not the more common Sports seats as described. They were a £2,495 extra in 2014 - maybe more in 2015? Big plus point.

The car has the standard 160w sound system, not the £995 extra 700w Premium system. I’ve only heard the 700w so not sure of the real world difference.

The wheels are the standard V12 from the non S version. Many S cars were specced with the Lightweight wheel option for £3,745 - see pic below. Quite a substantial weight saving, but can’t remember how much! You may prefer the look of the wheels that are on it though.

Re the pitted side strakes - it does happen. For a car of that level I would expect the dealer to replace them before a sale.

Other than that, I would expect a full annual AM service history. Finally, those are possibly the original tyres. Seven or eight years old now and probably ready for replacement.





BiggaJ

839 posts

38 months

Wednesday 22nd March 2023
quotequote all
Linkin said:
Any thoughts on this one?

https://www.pistonheads.com/buy/listing/14433336

I've received the walk-around video.
It seems nice, but the side-strakes are pitted which is either a thing or it worries me if the car has been well looked after.
2015, so the older style dash and infotainment.
On the plus side, it has the sports-seats.
Nice looking car, the yellow on the interior lifts what would otherwise be a very oppressive place to sit. As others have said the side skirts should be sorted for the price. The other thing of note is the condensation in the rear light cluster ... it has to be on the inside as the rest of the car is bone dry in the pictures. This will inevitably lead to rear light failure, it's a common thing on these cars. I would ask for this to be replaced also.

Re the 160W v 700w hifi ... I am very much into my hifi at home however, I have the 160w in my V8 and i've never thought it needs to sound better. I have sat in a car without engine running with a 700w and it's not a night and day difference. Once the engine is running and you are cruising with all the extra noise then you will be hard pushed to tell the difference. In all honesty, you will most likely be listening to the engine rather than anything else.

If we were talking about a limo type car where outside noise was kept to a minimum then granted the higher performance hifi would be something worth considering but not in a Vantage.

CSK1

1,598 posts

123 months

Wednesday 22nd March 2023
quotequote all
I own one of the first V12VSR built, the 8th one built in fact. So I have an early dash which was replaced for the 16MY. I actually prefer the old dash with the traditional buttons and clock.
The car was an ex press KX car and has all the options, lightweight seats and wheels (note that if you didn’t tick the lightweight wheel option, the car came with the wheels that were fitted to the original V12V like shown in the advert of the car that is being offered for sale.
I’m loving my car which I have owned since 2015, so much so I never intend to sell it. Great cars! You can’t go wrong.
I’ve got the B&O system but I very rarely turn it on.

Mr.Tremlini

1,460 posts

100 months

Wednesday 22nd March 2023
quotequote all
There`s a lot of love for the V12, and rightfully so, but I would not dismiss a V8 AMR. The best thing to do is drive both, and of course it can also be a coupe just to give you the feel of how the V8 & V12 drives differently. Having done the "drive a V12 and you`ll trade up from your V8" thing, I stuck with the V8, it`s the better drivers car for me.
While the V12 is more prodigious and will probably hold it`s value better, the V8 has exceptionally good balance and the AMR is the pinnacle.

Calinours

1,100 posts

49 months

Wednesday 22nd March 2023
quotequote all
Linkin said:
This question has been flying round my head for months. (I know, first world problems and all that)

I know i'm bound to love both of them, but...

V8 AMR
More modern. Lower mileage.
I love the revised haptics and waterfall dash.
AMR is special-ish although no performance mods that i can see over a V8VSR
It's not a V12

OR

V12VSR
It's a V12!
But has the analogue dash which seems so dated.
SS3 better than SS2

Which will have the more solid residuals?

If i sit on my hands, will the 2016+ Facelift V12 market come to my budget.... or will it drift further away?

Any insights/moments of inspiration gratefully received....
I know i'm bound to love both of them,

Although only contributing for the last couple of years, I was stealthily reading the PH and many other forums for many years before buying my V8. I would estimate that of those who have actually been luckily enough to actually drive both, something well in excess of 90% have posted making very clear their preference for the V12.

I have had my V8S for seven years. I have upgraded and modified it. I really love it, not so much for the engine, just because there has never, ever been a car I have wanted more since I first glimpsed one in 2005. It is, for me, quite simply the most beautiful car ever made. I have driven a Vanquish S. I haven’t driven any variant of V12V. I don’t want to. Because I know I will love it even more and begin to obsess, not healthy. I can assure you that there are vast numbers of V8 owners who wish at some point to upgrade to the (originally) much more expensive and exclusive V12V. There are very, very, few V12 owners who wish to downgrade to a V8. For the vast majority of us, it was and is a no brainier that if we could have afforded either, it would be a V12.

but...

V8 AMR
More modern.
Bar the two engines, all Vantages are essentially the same car, changes were small and incremental. By todays standards, none of them may be considered ‘modern’, and that is a good thing.

Lower mileage.
I wonder if sometimes we are all a teensy bit over sensitive to mileage. Yes, it will affect residuals, but isn’t that offset by the fact you are buying cheaper in the first place?

Even using the residual arguement, if you plan to actually drive the car a fair bit, isn’t it better to buy at say 30k miles and sell at 50k? All other things equal, the mileage difference won’t affect the value delta as significantly as buying at, say, 10k miles and selling at 30k.

Also, a car that has been driven is far more likely to have had the ‘infant mortality’ issues identified and sorted. Many including I will advise you that regular use does benefit these cars. Seals and bearings buried deep in engine transmission and powertrain need to regularly rotate to stay in good condition. Electronics like to regularly warm up and dispel moisture. Just read the forums any March to see the number of people reporting new electrical issues after a winter lay-up (though, thankfully, many will be battery related)

I love the revised haptics and waterfall dash.
Well, personal preference. Unlike the move to the DBS (ECU) dash from 2008, the ‘upgraded’ haptic dash never generated too much debate among owners, it remains something where there are few threads commenting and comparing. If it matters that much to you, why not save a little more and buy a V12 with that dash?

You will meet few if anyone else on here willing to consider compromising on a V12 because of the dashboard….

AMR is special-ish although no performance mods that i can see over a V8VSR

Correct. The AMR V8, while a lovely car is essentially a V8S with a cosmetic makeover. And a V8S is essentially a post 2013 V8 with some carbon bits. The only huge difference in the Vantage is between V8 and V12.

It's not a V12

No, but it’s still a large V8, more than enough engine for most.. smile

OR

V12VSR
It's a V12!
True, and one of the last ever naturally aspirated V12. An icon, the one with the best reviews, and probably the most loved Aston of the last 20years.

But has the analogue dash which seems so dated.

Come on….. smile (see comment above) - if that’s a reason you will likely live to seriously regret.

SS3 better than SS2

V8S SS and V12SS both use essentially the same hardware (box and Magnetti Marelli shift system) and TCM. SSIII only ‘better’ because when fitted to the V12 the clutch is fitted with two plates as standard.

Which will have the more solid residuals?

IMO, all will quickly become seen as classic AM, though it seems highly likely that the V12, given the reputation and genuine love for it (among even non hardcore AM aficionados), will have a far stronger following.

If i sit on my hands, will the 2016+ Facelift V12 market come to my budget.... or will it drift further away?

No-one can answer this. If you are lucky enough to have 90k to spend on a beautiful specimen of the last of the modern classic-era n/a Aston, now long out of production, and for whom values are already remaining fairly constant (notwithstanding Pandemic effects), then perhaps it isn’t worth worrying too much….

As others have stated, and though it pains me to say it as a V8 owner, the V12S is where the vast majority (though perhaps not all) of us lucky enough to be in your position would be putting our money.

As a foot note, as you want a roadster, beyond the major difference between Vantages (the engine), the other big thing is transmission. Not SS2 vs SS3, but manual vs SS.

Before committing to anything, we would all strongly advise you test drive. You may find that you can’t get on with (or just don’t like) the automated manual, and after all you may want a manual manual. That being the case, your choice would be between one of the last of the V8s or a really nice example non S V12 roadster from around 2011-12

Best of luck!



Edited by Calinours on Thursday 23 March 11:47

LordBretSinclair

4,285 posts

176 months

Wednesday 22nd March 2023
quotequote all
It's got to be the V12VS, and for me a roadster.
I've tried lots of of AMs, both past and present and there's nothing that's going to get me to change mine.
Good luck with your search smile


Linkin

Original Poster:

144 posts

156 months

Wednesday 22nd March 2023
quotequote all

You lot are a mine of information and head-straightening insight - Thank you very much!

I have always wanted an Aston Martin ever since i was a lad back in the 80's.
There is no doubt i'm going to get one, but £90k ish for me is the result of a heck of a lot of graft over a lot of years, so i want to make a wise purchase decision, hence all the questions.

Calinours - I have driven a SS2 V8 and a SS3 V12 back-to-back. I have no issue with the SS gearbox and there is no doubt a 7-Speed Manual is way out of my budget.

There are very few cars seemingly available at the moment, so i guess the only thing really holding me back is whether to sit tight and hope i can secure a facelifted 2016+ V12VSR in budget or to look at the 2015 models which are available now.

Does anyone know if there any search alternatives other than Pistonheads or Autotrader?

Phil74891

1,064 posts

132 months

Wednesday 22nd March 2023
quotequote all
Aside from the two sites you mention, try the Aston Martin main website for approved used. Not all AM dealers advertise on PH or AT.

HWM would be my go to, a good friend recently bought a car from Bristol, they too were excellent.

At the level you mention, I would only buy from a main AM dealer, or privately from a person who you know well.

The V12 Vantages are being snapped up as they are so desirable, and many owners are keeping them long term, so that will affect availability.

I’ve owned my 2014 SS coupe since almost new, and wouldn’t swap it for anything.




nickv12

1,342 posts

82 months

Wednesday 22nd March 2023
quotequote all
Phil74891 said:
Aside from the two sites you mention, try the Aston Martin main website for approved used. Not all AM dealers advertise on PH or AT.

HWM would be my go to, a good friend recently bought a car from Bristol, they too were excellent.

At the level you mention, I would only buy from a main AM dealer, or privately from a person who you know well.

The V12 Vantages are being snapped up as they are so desirable, and many owners are keeping them long term, so that will affect availability.

I’ve owned my 2014 SS coupe since almost new, and wouldn’t swap it for anything.
Not wishing to sound like Phil is right all the time... he's right again here.

Contact HWM, AM Bristol and AM Works for starters. Say what you want in terms of spec and price. They will have a list of regular customers who chop and change annually, but stick with the brand.

Phil and myself are the type who you can not prise our V12's out of our clammy mitts for any amount of money. But many examples have almost one owner per year. And don't fear cars with more than average miles, so long as they have a perfect service history.

So long as it has a full year Timeless warranty on it, there's little to fear. Any niggles should get sorted. But get trim issues sorted before purchase; the chrome side strakes and many other non-critical bits are not covered by Timeless (as per any major car extended warranty.)

Apart from other MD's, your other route is asking specialists such as Nicholas Mee with the understanding that you'd want them to add a Timeless warranty before sale. For this to happen, they need to pass the car through a MD to be verified. It will cost them, but that's all part of the negotiation. Nicholas Mee specialises in a very high quality stock.

You have sampled a V8 and V12, so they should all take you seriously. But hold out for the spec you really want. As with myself, it's the result of many years of saving for it. Cherish the whole journey.

geresey

388 posts

122 months

Wednesday 22nd March 2023
quotequote all
As there are not many v12 on the market, and most/all are probably well cared for, makes me wonder… buying from an MD you would pay a hefty mark up on a private sale (which is where the MD could well have sourced from anyway), and is that really worth it Vs having a check done and “self insuring”? Open question, interested in thoughts…

Davil

271 posts

25 months

Thursday 23rd March 2023
quotequote all
Interestingly enough I was in the same position as you a little over a year ago.

I chose the AMR V8 and don’t regret it one bit. I prefer the looks, that it has a 6 speed manual, better handling and the interior just feels like such a special place to sit. It has more than enough power and likes a nice rev at times too, which you can do to an extent without being arrested.

The V8 is more the drivers choice. The 12 is more a get out of my way little man choice. So it really comes down to personal preference. Keep in mind I have 3 cars and the Aston is just used for mental therapy. I may have made a different choice if my needs were different. The 12 is of course the more relaxed drive and as such more useful in more scenarios as you don’t need to be “on it”.

There’s a fellow AMR V8 owner in here that did exactly the same thing as me too. Maybe he’ll chime in just to add more confusion. smile

Overall though, you can’t go wrong with either. They are just wonderful wonderful cars.

Linkin

Original Poster:

144 posts

156 months

Thursday 23rd March 2023
quotequote all
LordBretSinclair said:
It's got to be the V12VS, and for me a roadster.
I've tried lots of of AMs, both past and present and there's nothing that's going to get me to change mine.
Good luck with your search smile

LBS - That is lovely!
What shade of red is it? Volcano?