Would you rather...? Vantage buying

[YorksLS18]

Here's a twist on the done-to-death manual vs sportshift Vantage debate...

I'm starting my search for a V8 Vantage, with my ideal car being an early 4.7 manual. It's achievable with my budget.

The mixed reviews on sportshift 1 put me off this transmission. Separately, the weaker mid-range torque puts me off the 4.3 engine.

However, I'll have much more choice if I open up my options. Realistically this could mean a better car.

So here's the conundrum...

If push came to shove, would you rather have a good 4.7 sportshift, or a really tip-top 4.3 manual?

Which would give the better driving experience in your opinion? Comments especially welcome from anyone who's driven both.

Also, is there any noticable variation in clutch wear between the two transmission types?

Naturally I will be trying before buying. And any good experiences from independent specialist dealers would also be helpful to hear about.

Thanks in advance!

[Buster73]

I’d wait and try then buy what car you really want , I’d rather wait a bit than regret a purchase.

[Calinours]

Why don’t you watch a few of the Bamford Rose you tube videos on the different flavours of the 6 or 7 speed manual transmission fitted to all Vantages, be it with a stick or without. Loads of useful information on the various configurations, their foibles and the potential upgrades from someone who knows the cars inside out.

[kevin_cambs_uk]

I went for a car post MY 2012.25 as that had a lot of stuff that the earlier cars didn’t

The manual / auto thing never entered the equation, I thought I may miss having a manual but I really like having the paddles, plus you get a row of buttons on the dash as I always thought the dash on the manual looked a sorry for itself only having the ecu slot!

So there is my weird take on it

Kev

[macdeb]

I drove both and went for SS when I had one. If I had another it would be SS. They are not 'auto' and should not be driven as such. the 4.7 has many upgrades over the 4.3.

[LTP]

YorksLS18 said:

If push came to shove, would you rather have a good 4.7 sportshift, or a really tip-top 4.3 manual?

Which would give the better driving experience in your opinion? Comments especially welcome from anyone who's driven both.

About 5 years ago I was in a similar position to you, so I did what you're going to do, contacted a few main dealers (they seem to be more accommodating to you trying the cars) and started eliminating options.

The first thing I did was try to 4.3 vs 4.7 engines, and I immediately decided it had to be a 4.7. I could not get my head around how gutless the 4.3 appeared to be to me for such a relatively large capacity engine, especially as my preferred driving style is to ride the wall of torque rather than rev the nuts off an engine. I appreciate this is not everyone's choice and Honda VTECs exist for a reason.

The second was the transmission. I tried a 6-speed SSI and absolutely hated it. So I was decided it had to be a manual, even though with my long legs and the clutch bite point being high my knee had to pass the steering wheel during changes. I even took an option on a Mariana Blue 4.7 manual, but the SS just kept intriguing me, so I decided I needed to drive an SSII just to be sure. I now own a 4.7 SSII and don't regret the choice. The SSII is not perfect, but I think I'd rather that now than a manual, especially in stop-start traffic.The SSII also has slightly taller gearing than a manual.

YorksLS18 said:

Also, is there any noticeable variation in clutch wear between the two transmission types?

Personal opinion here, based on what I've read and heard. The high bite point on a Vantage manual means that some drivers inadvertently ride the clutch as they change gear, especially if they try for a smooth shift - this can kill the clutch very quickly. There's also the tall reverse, so reversing up a slope and riding the clutch to do it can cook the plate nicely. Now you can abuse an SSII in just the same way (especially the reversing uphill thing), but in normal driving an SSII won't ride the clutch, so I'd put my hat on an SSII clutch lasting longer as long as it hasn't been abused and the clutch learning is done every time. Others may disagree.

In conclusion, in order of preference for me it would have to be: 4.7 SSII; then a 4.7 manual (a close second); then a 4.7 SSI; then a 4.3 manual, then last and least a 4.3 SSI

edited to add
Don't forget that 4.7s had both SSI (six speed) and SSII (seven speed) fitted. The SSII came in at the introduction of the 'S' variant, with the non-'S' 4.7 continuing with the SSI until, I think, the 12.25MY upgrades, when the non-'S' got the SSII, the bigger brakes, wider tyres, and the faster rack off the 'S'.

Edited by LTP on Wednesday 22 March 13:30

[Mr.Tremlini]

As I wrote on my ownership thread after buying my Vantage back in 2015;

I figured, from reading the reviews and sundry online opinions and speaking with a dealer, that a 4.7 sportshift was the way to go, so I budgeted for a 2009/2010 model. After keeping an eye on the market for two years I pounced, as suddenly both privately, and at a dealer, there were a couple of low mileage 4.7 options available within my price point, and conveniently two well specced 4.3's somewhat cheaper, comparison time! I decided the easiest option was to go to the local dealer and take a test drive. Long story short, I drove a 2010 4.7 SS back to back with a 2007 4.3 manual, and after a few days of pondering that 4.3 is what I ended up buying.

Alright, that didn’t go according to plan… but the 4.3 was impeccable, one owner summer driver, low mileage and pretty much ticked all my boxes regarding options, rode nicely, but ultimately it was a much more engaging drive. I found the power difference to be negligible, there was for sure more mid-range grunt in the 4.7 but not shockingly so.

In Switzerland pretty much everybody ordered the 4.7 in SS so the manual versions are few and far between, and when they do pop up they seem to carry a 5-10k premium over the equivalent SS. I bought the 4.3 in the knowledge that I would be looking to upgrade performance, and I did with a trip to Bamford Rose for the full exhaust, clutch, flywheel treatment which totally brings the car in line with a 4.7, but was still cheaper than a manual 4.7 would be.
I have since driven a newer SS V8 and V12 Vantage and I find the automated manual is just not for me and how I like to drive.

[Dewi 2]

Not sure whether this has already been mentioned, but might be helpful.

I have not driven a 4.3 so cannot compare, but the low down torque provided by the 4.7 seems just right.
Can slow to quite a low speed when necessary, then if desired, easily accelerate without needing to change down.

The after market twin plate clutch, has a far lighter clutch pedal action.

Bamford Rose claim to have the expertise to make software adjustments, to suit the driver, when a twin plate clutch is fitted to a Sportshift car. They mention eliminating 'nodding dog'.

Edited by Dewi 2 on Wednesday 22 March 16:50

[BiggaJ]

Mr.Tremlini said:

As I wrote on my ownership thread after buying my Vantage back in 2015;

I figured, from reading the reviews and sundry online opinions and speaking with a dealer, that a 4.7 sportshift was the way to go, so I budgeted for a 2009/2010 model. After keeping an eye on the market for two years I pounced, as suddenly both privately, and at a dealer, there were a couple of low mileage 4.7 options available within my price point, and conveniently two well specced 4.3's somewhat cheaper, comparison time! I decided the easiest option was to go to the local dealer and take a test drive. Long story short, I drove a 2010 4.7 SS back to back with a 2007 4.3 manual, and after a few days of pondering that 4.3 is what I ended up buying.

Alright, that didn’t go according to plan… but the 4.3 was impeccable, one owner summer driver, low mileage and pretty much ticked all my boxes regarding options, rode nicely, but ultimately it was a much more engaging drive. I found the power difference to be negligible, there was for sure more mid-range grunt in the 4.7 but not shockingly so.

In Switzerland pretty much everybody ordered the 4.7 in SS so the manual versions are few and far between, and when they do pop up they seem to carry a 5-10k premium over the equivalent SS. I bought the 4.3 in the knowledge that I would be looking to upgrade performance, and I did with a trip to Bamford Rose for the full exhaust, clutch, flywheel treatment which totally brings the car in line with a 4.7, but was still cheaper than a manual 4.7 would be.
I have since driven a newer SS V8 and V12 Vantage and I find the automated manual is just not for me and how I like to drive.

This is effectively what happened to me. Set out to get the best car within my budget. I do prefer the earlier cars for aesthetics mainly due to the sills being tucked under but wouldn't let this put me off buying a car with the flared sills. In the end and after viewing and driving a number of cars I ended up with a very late 4.3 and then set about adding some choice upgrades that now means it drives (from a power perspective) like a 4.7. Been on several outings with other Vantages of varying ages some 4.7 and never felt as though mine was lacking in power by comparison.

I think the best way to look at it is to keep your options open and if you end up with a good car no matter what engine then so be it. Just make sure you have it inspected to be sure it's all good.

Can't comment on the auto box v manual as I never considered looking for the auto, I only had manual in mind.

[Dewi 2]

BiggaJ said:

... I do prefer the earlier cars for aesthetics, mainly due to the sills being tucked under, but wouldn't let this put me off buying a car with the flared sills.

The original sills continued until MY2012.25, although possibly flared sills might have been a option, because quite a few cars between 2009 and 2012 have them fitted, although that might have been after leaving the factory.

[johns355]

Bought a manual 08 roadster 6 years ago with 19k miles on it, needed a new clutch a year later so had the twin plate/flywheel done at works- makes a lot of difference with lighter pedal and slightly better throttle response. Sold the car last year at 38k miles. Bought a 14 plate 4.7s coupe with ss2 gearbox at 47k miles, no receipt for clutch change so for piece of mind had the BR twin plate/flywheel and remap done, fantastic bit of kit, I don’t miss the manual one bit which really surprised me. For me 100% ss2, but it’s personal taste, oh and the s exhaust sound is gorgeous!

[SL500UK]

YorksLS18 said:

Here's a twist on the done-to-death manual vs sportshift Vantage debate...


If push came to shove, would you rather have a good 4.7 sportshift, or a really tip-top 4.3 manual?

I'm old school and wouldn't consider an auto in a Vantage. I know people here don't like them being called automatics but if the car changes the gears by iteself, then to me it's an auto.

[BiggaJ]

Dewi 2 said:

The original sills continued until MY2012.25, although possibly flared sills might have been a option, because quite a few cars between 2009 and 2012 have them fitted, although that might have been after leaving the factory.

Now that's interesting, it's odd because most cars older than 09 plate (like mine) that I viewed had the flared sills. You learn something new ....

[Dewi 2]

BiggaJ said:

Dewi 2 said:

The original sills continued until MY2012.25, although possibly flared sills might have been a option, because quite a few cars between 2009 and 2012 have them fitted, although that might have been after leaving the factory.

Now that's interesting, it's odd because most cars older than 09 plate (like mine) that I viewed had the flared sills. You learn something new ....

These are all of the UK model year 2009 4.7 Grigio Titanio cars.
Only one has the N400 sills. Whether those were fitted at the time of build, I don't know.



( click to see under the logo )

[Andy665]

4.3 or 4.7

Manual or Sportshift

Personally I do not think that there is a right or wrong

We ended up with a 4.7 Sportshift for three very simple reasons

Firstly the budget allowed us to get into a 4.7

Secondly the car we found was in lovely condition with a good spec

The Sportshift was essential as wife has some replacement toe joints making a manual pretty hard work'

No regrets at all and the Sportshift is pretty involving and satisfying to use when you get it right

[LordBretSinclair]

SL500UK said:

I'm old school and wouldn't consider an auto in a Vantage. I know people here don't like them being called automatics but if the car changes the gears by iteself, then to me it's an auto.

I was old school like you and a die hard manual devotee...........until............
I bought a V12VSR with SSIII !!!!!!
It is nothing like an auto but a gearbox you can play with to your hearts content. Effortless changes up and down, when YOU want to.
Lady S loves it too as the heavy clutch in our old 4.7 manual was just too much for her.
Thank goodness, though, that we all like different things.

[Calinours]

We live in a world now where the modern automatic transmission has recently become so good that it now has all of the traditional advantages of an auto with none of the drawbacks. Anyone who has ever driven a modern auto will therefore expect that the VH Vantage ‘auto’ to behave as a modern auto, or nearly as such, and it doesn’t. It was even a problem when the car was still fairly new, as it was being compared with the then very modern dual clutch transmissions like the DSG and PDK.

The Sportshift system is essentially an application of the F1 automated manual system developed largely by Magnetti Marelli for Ferrari 30years ago. Other types of automated manual have been around much longer. It’s old tech, and having no choice other than to continue using tech long after it’s sell by date is something AM have long been famous for.

However, none of that means that it doesn’t work or is somehow flaky or unreliable. Like any old, out of date tech Sportshift (especially SS1) is flawed. Generally this means it can be a bit user-unfriendly, or perhaps isn’t foolproof. It must be remembered it was developed to increase the speed and positivity of a manual gearbox shift on a racetrack without adding too much mass, and the track remained the only place where such systems really seem to make sense. The compromise was always low speed control and behaviour.

Compared to, say, the near ubiquitous ZF 8-speed auto in the new Vantage (indeed in pretty much every 2nd century Aston and many, many other high end cars) and it will seem harsh, clunky, and very tricky around town, especially if one doesn’t know how to use it.

There we are. Sportshift is old tech, has to be learned to get the best out of, should always be driven in ‘manual’ mode on the paddles, is only really good when hoofing it. In ‘auto’ mode, even with a twin plate clutch significantly improving it, it can never be remotely as good as any modern auto.

However, I really like my sportshift system. It’s quirky, unusual, theatrical and has a level of required driver engagement absent in all slushers, meaning it is rewarding when you get it right. I consider it an excellent halfway house, and continue to love driving my Sportshift II equipped V8VS more than my sublime ZF-equipped DB11.


The only way to know whether the mysterious, weird and wonderful Sportshift is for you or not is to live with one for a week (preferably SSII with twin plate clutch upgrade or III), and put some effort into learning how to get the best out of it.

Edited by Calinours on Thursday 23 March 12:23

[SL500UK]

Thanks for the last two contributions - I'm not against automatics at all, in the bigger Astons that would be perfect but in a car that one would like to drive enthusiastically, it has to be a manual for me. BTW my daily drivers for the past 10 years have had the wonderful ZF 8 speed auto gearbox.

[Wessa]

I think it's a case of try before you buy as everyone's preferences will differ.

Either choice, you will be onto a winner.

I personally drive a V8V 4.3 manual. However, if my pockets were endless, my choice would most certainly be different.

Good luck with your choice.

[YorksLS18]

Thanks to everyone who's taken the time to comment. Some really helpful insights, advice and experiences. And the range of opinions shows how personalised the experience of enjoyable driving can be.

From this, SS does seem to have its fans as well as detractors. So I'm going to keep an open mind and look at both transmission types in 4.7 form, and possibly try a 4.3 manual for comparison if I can find an accommodating dealer.

Either way, there seem to be some decent examples out there and it really is "the car I've always promised myself". They're beautiful in any configuration. Thanks again for all your genuinely helpful responses.