The new Vantage?

[Calinours]

quench said:

cypriot said:

Marek Reichman is far more accomplished designer than Callum can ever hope to be

Comedy post of the year award, right here.

Seconded

[Calinours]

bogie said:

Mezzanine said:

That’s really embarrassing - that’s a genuine email from Aston Martin directly?

Yes, I received the same mail

I got it too. I often feel like replying to them asking what language that is and do they realise that I am over 12 years old. Other times I’d like to reply using similar constructed gobbledygook.

I so often wonder if the strange individuals who make that crap up actually know what they are trying to sell or even who the target market actually is. Maybe it’s not targeted at english speakers, but surely, UK, US/Can plus ANZ etc are still going to be around half of the market?

[Calinours]

IMHO they’ve nailed it with this facelift. I suspected the new front end treatment would suit the Vantage and it really does. It really does look like what I guess the majority of us had hoped for in 2018 - they have gone back to a look which resembles a more aggressive iteration but still an evolution of the VH cars. Nothing needed at the rear, which always did look ‘ace’ as Harry would say, well it did when they sorted out the pea shooter exhausts. As with DB12, the interior is a night and day change. Also some lovely detail like the side badges with AM written on them, recalling the cars of the past.

It’s a fantastic looking thing now, it’s amazing how just a few detail changes can transform the car. I’d absolutely have one of these, it’s taken 6 years, but they finally got the replacement for the n/a cars right.

This couldn’t be more of an admission that they cocked things up with the earlier car - it reminds me of Highlander 3 - where the producers just said, “right, let’s all just imagine that Highlander 2 never existed at all shall we…this one is the true sequel to the cult classic..”

It also looks like good value compared to DB12 - I reckon they will sell a load of these. Assuming it drives as good as it has to, this one looks like a winner.

Edited by Calinours on Monday 12th February 08:44

[Calinours]

Minglar said:

I completely agree Calinours. My only worry is that there seems to be quite a lot of overlap with DB12, but I guess we all expected that. The only problem going forward may be that the similarities may affect overall sales. Are the two cars going to be “that” different? Same (more or less) engine, similar power output, same torque figure, same transmission (as far as I know anyway). New new Vantage obviously has a shorter wheelbase and is a strict two seater, and it does look more agressive to my old foguey eyes but I guess we won’t really know the differences in how it drives until the press reviews appear in a couple of months time. It’s gone pretty quiet on here, which I’m a little surprised at considering how eagerly anticipated this car has been. Perhaps we’ve all been playing on the configurator this morning?!
BRM.

Thanks. Yes, what are the differences now with same engine and transmission, same interior, same familial look and same power and speed ? Andy’s mum would freak... I reckon most orders in the coming year will tip to the Vantage and the DB12 will suffer as a result. There will be some who will cancel orders for DB12 having seen this. DB12 now only if you have a couple of little uns you need to stuff into the back - but come on, don’t the folks who can afford to buy one of these new also have an SUV on the drive for the school run?

But you all know what this could mean ??

The return of a real ‘differentiator’ in AM’s so beloved marketing speil…. the V12!

[Calinours]

Octavarium said:

That is the absolute dog's. Well played Marek. You're not quite the numpty after all eh ?

Very few stylists would have had the opportunity to correct a mistake that turned out to be so damaging to their employer. Lucky for him, it was his boss that paid the price.

[Calinours]

Budweiser said:

I love the new Aston Vantage and appreciate all the comments but surely how it looks (which IMO is fabulous) isn’t the main consideration? It’s a sports car and the 11/12 are GTs so it’s it's driving dynamics that will differentiate it from the12 not the styling. If that’s the case I’ll have one of each please.

Good point, and agreed on the dynamics. Given what they have evidently done with the bigger cars dynamics there will need to be a similarly sized improvement with the new new Vantage to achieve the differentiation. Remember however that the previous model was not the failure in that department which many revisionist journalists considered the original DB11 to be.

[Calinours]

Octavarium said:

AlexT said:

How this forum has come together and unanimously praised the car's updated design is wonderful.

Quite so. I fear however, that someone will, in due course pop along and pee on our collective chips to inform us all (for the thousandth time), that an Aston without an Aston engine is not an Aston, will never be an Aston, and how has no right at all to be called an Aston. Ever !!

Well, like it or not, a bought in engine does still detract from brand ‘value’ in many folks eyes. Those folks can take time to adjust to what is a hard reality for niche independent players like AML.

The AMG lump absolutely wouldn’t stop me very much wanting one of these though…

We will have to wait until breakfast time on the west coast (anytime now) to hear what Mr Speedraiser thinks, but somehow I think even he is resigned to reality. Remember that two very bespoke V12s remain available to AML - so all is not lost for even the staunchest purist

[Calinours]

nathwraith1 said:

Copying my post from general gassing in here as the same applies.

The new Vantage looks fantastic. Much more cohesive than the previous model. The interior is a serious upgrade too.

As an ex "new gen" F1 Vantage owner, I approve. This would look rather nice next to my DBX 707.

However, the price. Wow. £165K base and my car specced up was £225K, thats without exterior carbon! Which would easily add £20K to the price(roof, lip, mirrors, diffuser etc)

This was my spec

A few examples:

- £9K for the nicer duo tone interior
- another £2K ontop for a non standard interior colour. (black & tan for example)
- add £5K on for the carbon seats
- £10K for carbon ceramic brakes (a must IMO)
- £2.5K for gloss black side sills and lip.diffuser otherwise you are stuck with "lumpy" looking graphite grey.
- £1.9K for the interior "upper trim inlay" in Carbon which cannot be deselected
- £2K for headlining that isn't black micromesh
- £1.9K for contrast interior stitching
- £10K if you want the pinstripe, lipstick and rear panel livery

This one takes the biscuit though, the AMR green paint is a £15,000 option! What?!

It cost me £2,850 for AMR green on my DBX 707 and surely that uses much more paint by volume. Smoking the crack pipe here I think.

No doubt the new Vantage is an incredible car but Aston are being very cheeky with the pricing of the options.

Also remember to add the the £6K OTR charges so really the cheapest new Vantage is £171K.

So next time you see a black or grey Aston with a monotone black interior, now you know why

Looking at Sept delivery earliest right now, hmmm decisions. [url]

|https://thumbsnap.com/jMMW9GwR[/url][url]

|https://thumbsnap.com/ToJfnZs9[/url]

Go for it. You know you want to….

As it looks like it’s going to be universally well received it is more likely that residuals will likely hold up quite well, at least in the first few years and for well specced cars….

[Calinours]

raceboy said:

This time instead of moving house I do have the option to remove the double garage central pillar, but it all comes out the new car pot and I'd rather not if I don't have to.
Could do with an accurate real world dimension for the 'old' Vantage rear wheel to rear wheel overall width, or I'll just have to try and borrow the dealers old demo car and see if it fits, last time that happened the salesman couldn't get out the car once he was in the garage....cue the house move.

It seems you already have a decent solution option. I’d just remove the pillar anyway and not worry about a scrape every time I moved any car in and out.

[Calinours]

raceboy said:

This time instead of moving house I do have the option to remove the double garage central pillar, but it all comes out the new car pot and I'd rather not if I don't have to.
Could do with an accurate real world dimension for the 'old' Vantage rear wheel to rear wheel overall width, or I'll just have to try and borrow the dealers old demo car and see if it fits, last time that happened the salesman couldn't get out the car once he was in the garage....cue the house move.

It seems you already have a decent solution option. I’d just remove the pillar anyway and not worry about a scrape every time I moved any car in and out.

[Calinours]

Nbgring said:

Did you consider comparing the new Vantage with a V12S?
Inflation rate adjusted prices are an interesting concept to talk about,
but in reality the new 665 PS Vantage is technically way superior compared to the historic 4.3 Vantage.

Income and prices for all other goods have increased more than automotive prices. Is there actually any product that remained so affordable as an entry Aston Martin based on working hours needed to fulfill the dream?

^^^ this

Definitely needs to be compared to V12V not the old 2005 pared down 80k base 4.3 V8. As the later V12s it is competing in much more rarified air, 911 turbo not C2/C2S.

I think the new iteration is a lovely thing with finally a fitting interior and with all that power it’s likely it’s going to be a weapon, if still a little heavy to really compete with the true track day masters. For an AM, looks matter more and in this alone it is surely going to sell quite a few, even at the new price point.

The only small issue I see is that there isn’t really much differentiation between Vantage and DB now, technically it’s even less than the Bez era, though at least these days they do look different from both front and rear which must count for a lot.

[Calinours]

jonby said:

I don't often comment in here these days, but I do look from time to time



Comparing DB12 and 2024 Vantage price/spec is very different to comparing DB9 with original V8 Vantage

In 2004/5, DB9 had a naturally aspirated V12 with 450bhp and 420 ib ft. It had a torque convertor auto and a low take-up manual option
In 2008, DB9 had a power boost to 470bhp and 443 ib ft, with the torque convertor auto (I think manual was dropped around then but may be misremembering)

In contrast, original Vantage had a 4.3 litre V8 with 380bhp and 302 ib ft. Gearboxes were manual or automated manual
In 2008, Vantage went up to a 4.7 litre V8 with 420bhp, 347 ib ft and effectively the same gearbox options as the 4.3

So the GT Aston had a V12 with more power, a lot more torque and a different gearbox to the smaller/sportier/cheaper Vantage

DB9 had a wheelbase of 2743 compared to 2601 for Vantage, so 142mm, or around 5% difference
Length was 4709 compared to 4382, so 327mm difference, or around 7.5%
Weight (very difficult to get like for like comparisons) but on wiki, 1760kg compared to 1610kg, so 150kg, almost 10% heavier

Both had 0-60 times in the mid 4s, Vantage had a slower top speed of around 180 compared to around 190 in DB9 (varies according to which version)

Turn the clock forward and compare 2024 Vantage with DB12
Both have the same gearbox
Both have the same engine. A turbo V8 with 671bhp in DB12 and 656bhp in Vantage, just 15bhp difference. Torque is identical at 590 ib ft
Wheel base is 2805 compared to 2705, so 100mm difference. Overall length 4725 compared to 4465, which is 260mm difference
Weight (again v difficult to get reliable like for like figures), but broadly speaking, the same. Wikipedia has vantage 15kg heavier than DB12 at 1700kg. Aston's website this morning has EU kerbweights of 1788 for DB12 and 1745 for Vantage


So instead of having a choice of a smaller, lighter, less powerful, different engine, different gearbox, much shorter wheelbase, we have two cars with nigh on identical power, torque and gearbox with essentially the same engine, with very similar weights. DB12 is larger, but the difference over Vantage is not as large as for their predecessors. Stated 0-60 and top speed for DB12 and Vantage are effectively the same (both have 202 top speed, officially DB12 0-60 3.6s, Vantage 3.5s)

Not only are the weights for DB12 and new Vantage similar, but DB12 is not much different in weight to original DB9 whereas new Vantage is 100+ kg heavier than the predecessor

I'm sure there are suspension differences, gearbox settings, maybe even power maps, but essentially DB12 and Vantage could be argued to be the same car, with one being slightly longer to accommodate a small rear seat. With the predecessors, if anything they looked more like each other (Vantage and DB9), but what was under the skin was really quite different. It didn't seem that different at the time, but compared to the latest offerings, it's easier to see the differentiations

Given how similar they are, if one was being logical (which is rarely the case), there's no reason DB12 should be much different in price to new Vantage

You could argue that new Vantage to DB12 is actually more like comparing DB9 to Rapide

As the exact same V8 engined powertrain with a very minor (around 2%) power difference and a few suspension and dynamic tweaks and a similar marginal weight difference one could even argue DB12 to Vantage is more V8 Vantage to Vantage S

However the longer wheel base and longer body will absolutely make the bigger car feel, well… bigger, indeed if ‘bigger’ is even a word.

Another non-differentiation wasn’t mentioned, both cars now have a far closer interior than their immediate predecessors, though not than what went before those.

With the same powertrain and performance, It’s possible to imagine the company are counting on the significantly (for AM) different looks being enough to attract sufficiently different cohorts of buyers for the two new base offerings, then perhaps deviating again in the two directions (sport, GT) with the sexed-up stuff that is to come, as always.

It is hard to see how they would wring more power and dynamic ability from that new Vantage package - which makes me wonder if the plan is to go the Porsche GT3 RS route - a more extreme offering, a stripped out and much less weight hardcore version.

As for the halo version of the bigger car, well, I can still see a role for the V12, perhaps an uber luxury GT product a little more tilted toward Bentley.

If that’s the strategy then the company should be applauded. With these two AM have finally shown an ability to listen clearly to their customers and respond properly, which I’d venture is a first for Aston, a company more used to adopting the more arrogant early Henry Ford “if I’d listened to my customers I’d have built a horse” attitude.

Maybe, just maybe, the old silver fox is right on the money after all…

Edited by Calinours on Tuesday 20th February 11:53

[Calinours]

BenAstonV12 said:

What, if any, of the current Vantage range will we be wanting (allowed) to drive in 30 or 40 years' time and will go up in value? I suspect the ones that are special, different, more interesting, even if underappreciated at the time (now). Chris Harris on the V8 Vantage: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vB34dHauBFc
But, in truth, enjoy your car now, regardless of what "return on investment" they may or may not have. Almost certainly none will make money, the point is to drive these things!

Tenuous link prize!

A thread about the new new Vantage, and we have a link to Harris doing a really sub-par ‘review’ of its great great granddaddy.

No issue with the link, but Harris’ review was uncharacteristically poor.

[Calinours]

Davil said:

I don’t think I’ve ever seen a launch with so many simultaneous YouTube and written reviews. Well done to the PR team. Also very brave to just let these guys go berserk for 15 minute track stints back to back to back.

The amusing thing is that they haven’t had time to crib off one another and there are so many conflicting opinions. The ride is smooth, the ride is harsh. The ZF is slow, the ZF is fast. The steering is numb, the steering communicates well. There is turbo lag, there is basically no turbo lag. It’s better on the track than the road, it’s not a track car but it is good on the road. It’s better than a 911 turbo, it is not better than a 911 turbo. The only thing they all agree is that it is very fast and most all seem to really like it. I’m hoping it will be a big hit.

Spot on

[Calinours]

Dewi 2 said:

Dewi 2 said:

I presume that the DB12, 2024 V8 Vantage and the 2024 DBX 707, now all have a similar AML infotainment system.

The photo below shows the Mercedes-Benz MBUX system; Information/Engine.
Real time figures for:- Engine Power; Engine Torque; Water Temperature; Oil Temperature; Battery Voltage; Turbocharger Boost Pressure.



(Vehicle stationary, so no figures shown in this photo for engine power or torque.)

The 2024 V8 Vantage has a stated engine power of 650 BHP, a considerable increase from the previous model.

I have found it interesting to occasionally glance at the engine power display of my Mercedes.
At a steady 70 mph on a level road, the power used to propel the large car is 15 BHP!

On a motorway journey in the new Vantage, it must be rather odd to realise, that 635 BHP is not required, but is ready in reserve if one wishes to accelerate above the speed limit.

Edited by Dewi 2 on Sunday 16th June 21:30

Likely sloppy code writing, inaccurate calibration or low res sensors (or more likely a combination of all three)

For a modern everyday Merc, with typical mass (not so important), typical Cd (becoming important at that speed) and typical tyres, a steady 70mph would likely need around 30 good old fashioned horses.

Edited by Calinours on Sunday 16th June 21:57

[Calinours]

Dewi 2 said:

Calinours said:

Likely sloppy code writing, inaccurate calibration or low res sensors (or more likely a combination of all three)

For a modern everyday Merc, with typical mass (not so important), typical Cd (becoming important at that speed) and typical tyres, a steady 70mph would likely need around 30 good old fashioned horses.

Thank you, but my implied question was, who can ever use the full 650 BHP engine power on public roads?
Pub talk again.

If the reply might be "when accelerating", remember that the engine first needs time to build high revs, before full power is produced.
By then, prison speeds have probably been achieved.

I’d say it’s accessibility, or more accurately, much more regularly accessible high torque meaning very high powers can be deployed lower down the range. The rapid development of the stability and traction management systems and modern tyres have made massive low down torque safe for average folks.

You don’t have to thrash the turbo Astons to make rapid progress, and I guess this new one moves things on even more. You are right in that maybe the peak 400hp you have is enough, but you have to rev the nuts off your car to access all of it, which isnt right on public roads. Who wants to drive an Aston ‘spiritedly’ but look like a boy racer revving the nuts off their chavved up 1.0ltr thing.

I’ve a 400-odd peak hp n/a car and a 600-odd hp turbocharged car. Much as I love it, and the theatre of it, it’s a fact that the n/a (old, or old old?) Vantage has to be thrashed to extract something near the maximum performance, the turbo cars just don’t. It helps that my slightly blown car is also a V12 of course…

It’s so often very nice to have all that torque available at the engine speeds used every day on routine drives like getting to work - its what makes every drive special. A real 300-400hp developed at just 3-4000rpm. I have relied on the nanny systems so often on damp mornings.

That’s the appeal, top end numbers are of course becoming irrelevant, it’s really about how much can be deployed as frequently and safely as possible.

The updated or ‘new new’ Vantage is looking like a real winner in that respect.

Edited by Calinours on Monday 17th June 09:50

[Calinours]

Anyone managed a test drive yet?

[Calinours]

franki68 said:

https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-review/aston-martin/...

"from £134,300" - I can imagine many more sales if that were true....

[Calinours]

Yes, great write up. It's what I'd been hoping for, as the new car also looks the business.

Any comments on the new interior systems? There are some pretty negative comments on the supposed flakiness of the new HMI in some of the earlier DB12 in other forums (though notably not on PH), I'd have hoped that most stuff would be resolved by the time of Vantage deliveries.

[Calinours]

AlexT said:

More useful stuff from his drive on the interior, HMI, noise, controls etc...

Thanks again. Really positive and helpful.