Aston Martin advice from Bamford Rose independent specialist

[Superchilled777]

Hi there

I'd like some advice on a DBS I've been offered with a "Bamford rose performance upgrade"

I don't know much about BR so wondered if there is someone I could talk to?

Thanks

[David W.]

Superchilled777 said:

Hi there

I'd like some advice on a DBS I've been offered with a "Bamford rose performance upgrade"

I don't know much about BR so wondered if there is someone I could talk to?

Thanks

Why not ring them and speak to Mike direct?
DW

[dbs2000]

Superchilled777 said:

Hi there

I'd like some advice on a DBS I've been offered with a "Bamford rose performance upgrade"

I don't know much about BR so wondered if there is someone I could talk to?

Thanks

You can call them or email. I would assume the car has high flow rear cats, cams and either the manifolds swapped out or the pre-cats removed. All in all they make the DBS much better

[Superchilled777]

dbs2000 said:

You can call them or email. I would assume the car has high flow rear cats, cams and either the manifolds swapped out or the pre-cats removed. All in all they make the DBS much better

Perfect, thanks will give them a shout - in your experience once a car has had this upgrade does it affect future ability to sell to main dealer?

[Superchilled777]

David W. said:

Why not ring them and speak to Mike direct?
DW

Until I read more on this post I didn't know who Mike was, but I do now, will do, thanks

[dbs2000]

Superchilled777 said:

In your experience once a car has had this upgrade does it affect future ability to sell to main dealer?

Never tried, the car has always been returned to stock. Mainly because I've hopped between V12's and wanted to keep the upgrades, once you've had them you'll find a standard car a bit flat.

It essentially takes the "old" V12 up to around the speed and free revving of the V12S.

[Mr.Tremlini]

The recent Rockingham Aston Martin only track day made quite the excuse to come up to England for a few days and drop the Vantage off to Bamford Rose for a bit of a tickle up beforehand, something that has been bouncing around in my head since I committed to a 4.3 rather than 4.7. Dealing with Mike and the guys was a happy experience, in which I was never left wondering and felt myself and the car were being well looked after. Other than a few maintenance items, I had the following (typical) enhancements done; BR exhaust manifolds and high flow baffled cats with 3-way valve control switch, ECU remap, GT4 airbox modifications, BR lightweight flywheel, twin-plate clutch and slave cylinder.

Well... the transformation is astounding! The car feels so much more lively, the throttle is eager and the revs come much more freely.
I made a point of switching it to stealth mode quickly so as not to get fooled by the abundant noise that comes with the valves open, and the difference is undeniably apparent, from stand still or on the move it`s much more responsive at low and mid-range revs, it feels unshackled and reactive in a way that makes me think it is at the very least a match for a 4.7.
Something like this is certainly is what I was hoping for, but it exceeded my expectations. Being able to hang onto the tail of some of the newer and more powerful cars at Rockingham was a blast!

Cheers for the great work, I`ll be back!

[shinjuku]

Could BR please comment as to the "options" regarding a sportshift vantage? Looking for a car here in Switzerland is woeful as there are almost only sportshifts available. I have a choice therefore of a 4.3 or 4.7 car... I had a 2006 4.3 and really liked it, with the sport cats the sound was immense.

1) what sportshift mods can be done and what improvements do they offer?
2) is the 4.3 the better sounding engine, or can a 4.7 get to similar/better sounding levels with certain mods?

[MRTOAD]

Hi folks,

I recently purchased a 2000 DB7 Vantage, and have not as yet been able to get a definitive answer on the correct oil.

I believe mine currently has 10-40, but I'm not sure if it is semi or fully synthetic.

Is the the correct (or at least acceptable) grade?

Is it safe to mix a modern semi and fully synthetic?

Thank you in advance for your input. :-)

[MRTOAD]

Thanks to the top chap at Bamford Rose who I spoke to on the phone this afternoon I now have my definitive answer:

Mobile 1 0-40 (Fully Synthetic)

However, 10-40 (Fully Synthetic) would not cause any issues.

Edited by MRTOAD on Tuesday 26th June 14:56

[chrzesm]

Hi Mike,

Referring to your excellent CCM explanation from previous posts. What should be weight of new CCM rotors as compared to the minimum weight. Assuming the service limit for front/rear side is say 6060g/4376g (after 3 pads cycles), what is the weight of a new rotor front/rear, then? I assume the delta weight as % of starting point is similar for front and rear. Knowing the delta it is easy to estimate % of remaining life (pad cycles), right?

Thanks, Maciej

[jmsgld]

Hi,

I look after a DB7 for a friend, the nearside window failed recently. my mechanic reports a "broken plastic mount that fixes the window to the regulator". He has been trying to source the part from the nearest Aston main dealer in Bristol for the last 6 weeks but hasn't managed despite numerous un-returned calls.

Anywhere else to source the part? Is it common to the XK?

Thanks,

James

[V8V Pete]

jmsgld said:

Hi,

I look after a DB7 for a friend, the nearside window failed recently. my mechanic reports a "broken plastic mount that fixes the window to the regulator". He has been trying to source the part from the nearest Aston main dealer in Bristol for the last 6 weeks but hasn't managed despite numerous un-returned calls.

Anywhere else to source the part? Is it common to the XK?

Thanks,

James

I believe HWM Walton on Thames have the biggest AM parts department in the world. Give them a try.

[jmsgld]

Thanks, will try them on Monday.

[westhumbler]

BamfordMike said:

alex2 said:

Thanks for your various interesting technical contributions Mike.

Out of interest and given your experience with engine development at Aston Martin, is there any performance advantage to be gained from using higher octane fuel in the recent V8 and V12 engines?

Good question, I understand this is a topic which is often discussed.


The V12 engine has no adaptive knock control / spark control hardware (sensors) or software (ECU program).
This means there is no mechanism to advance the spark angle if high (97 or greater) Octane fuel is used, or retard the spark if low (<95) Octane is used.

Higher the Octane rating number means the detonation limit is reduced, reduced detonation means that the spark can be re-advanced to gain additional power. The lower the Octane rating means detonation is increased and if the spark is not retarded, severe damage is likely (holed or cracked piston or failed sparkplug leading to damage from debris).

The basic mapping on all current V12's was conducted by the factory on 95 Octane. As there is no hardware or software present to re-advance the spark angle if higher Octane fuel is used, means there would be no performance benefit to be had, whatsoever, if high Octane fuel was used. Conversely, in markets (such as the States) where low fuel grades are available, if, say, 91 Octane was filled and the engine was held at high speed and load for prolonged periods, severe damage might occur. For this reason there are not many manufactures today that release engines to the market without knock control.

To give you an idea of the value of knock control, an industry standard charts an extra 1.5 degrees spark per additional octane rating. The same standard releases approx. 2.5 bhp per 1 degree spark. Meaning that when knock control technology is present, running 97 Supergreen will return an additional 7.5 BHP over 95 Octane performance.

So, until the day knock control is available on V12, save your money and fill with 95 Octane as there is no benefit whatsoever to be had from the higher octane fuel.

Onto the V8

The V8 does have knock control (thanks to great hardware from Jag and a fantastic cal job from someone on this forum..)
The base mapping was conducted on 97 Octane, meaning 380BHP for 4.3L and 420BHP for 4.7L is achieved using 97 Octane. If 95 Octane is used then the quoted performance levels will not be achieved. Using the same standard above; 372.5 BHP for 4.3L and 412.5 BHP for 4.7L will be returned. Furthermore, if 91 Octane fuel was used then the knock control system would re-adjust spark so that no damage to the engine would occur, causing the loss of over 10 BHP (yes, this number doesn't follow the same rule stated above re performance loss / retardation of spark, as it is not a linear relationship over the entire fuel octane range).

This is one reason the AM power upgrade option works quite well. As discussed previously on this thread, the kit consists of valves in the airbox which open (outside noise drive-by regulations) to return lower induction system losses, worth approx. 10 BHP. Together with, and ONLY when 100 octane fuel is used, the remainder of the 10 BHP comes from advanced spark, re-adapted to the higher Octane fuel. However, you pays your money you takes your choice... The kit is £2k and to get the final 10BHP you need to fill with 100 Octane (if you can find it), meaning a very expensive fuel fill to get that last little bit of performance. So the debate would be... is there a better performance upgrade option for the outlay of around £2k..??!!

Hope this answers your questions..
Mike.

An interesting topic and something that I've read various posts on other threads within the AM forum. This prompted me to investigate the octane content in the fuel I put into my DB9 from Esso (usually) and BP sometimes. I was surprised at the difference in octane levels...

Esso octane ratings:-

https://www.esso.ca/en/octane-rating

BP octane ratings:-

https://www.bp.com/content/dam/bp-country/en_au/me...

Apols for the links - I couldn't copy and paste the web page contents onto here due to formatting issues.

I assume where Mike has stated "where low fuel grades are available, if, say, 91 Octane was filled and the engine was held at high speed and load for prolonged periods, severe damage might occur" he's not referring to someone pootling along at around motorway speed limits from London to Bristol, or my engine would have had it by now!

[MarkM3Evoplus]

I think Mike was using RON octane rating not MON, hence the difference.

You car would go pop if the you put in 89 RON

[CSK1]

I thought the V12S engine with Bosch engine management has the knock control.

[starlight225]

CSK1 said:

I thought the V12S engine with Bosch engine management has the knock control.

I’m pretty sure it does too. The Bosch engine management was a giant leap from the old Visteon systems on the V12s. Any V12 with the 8 speed auto or sportshift III has the Bosch engine management.

[CSK1]

... or the 7 speed dogleg manual!
I think the 6 speed Vanquish and first iteration of Rapide S with the 6 speed auto also have the Bosch engine management.

Edited by CSK1 on Monday 13th August 14:15

[starlight225]

CSK1 said:

... or the 7 speed dogleg manual!
I think the 6 speed Vanquish and first iteration of Rapide S with the 6 speed auto also have the Bosch engine management.

Edited by CSK1 on Monday 13th August 14:15

Forgot the dogleg 7 speed, but all 6 speed autos are most definitely Visteon systems.