GT86/BRZ Used Purchase
Discussion
Hi folks, I'm looking at the GT86/BRZ as a bit of fun to replace a very hum-drum Volvo S60.
I've realised that I don't tend to drive with more than one passenger very often and would prefer something more "fun" so a coupe seems a good choice and having test driven a BRZ its tremendous to drive.
However I'm probably looking at something used, I'm considering a 66 plate ex-demonstrator GT86 from a Toyota dealer, immaculate car 1200 miles on the clock and its a Pro so comes with all the kit (Sat Nav) but while its a lot cheaper than new its still not exactly cheap but do need to factor in the remainder of the warranty, etc.
I was wondering though given the reputation for reliability how safe am I going back a few years? I'm seeing a lot of 2014/2015 cars with c 20-25000 on the clock at good prices and wondering what can really go wrong? I've always had a though in my head that this type of car I'd prefer to buy new as then I know it hasn't been "screwed" but am I over-worrying?
I've realised that I don't tend to drive with more than one passenger very often and would prefer something more "fun" so a coupe seems a good choice and having test driven a BRZ its tremendous to drive.
However I'm probably looking at something used, I'm considering a 66 plate ex-demonstrator GT86 from a Toyota dealer, immaculate car 1200 miles on the clock and its a Pro so comes with all the kit (Sat Nav) but while its a lot cheaper than new its still not exactly cheap but do need to factor in the remainder of the warranty, etc.
I was wondering though given the reputation for reliability how safe am I going back a few years? I'm seeing a lot of 2014/2015 cars with c 20-25000 on the clock at good prices and wondering what can really go wrong? I've always had a though in my head that this type of car I'd prefer to buy new as then I know it hasn't been "screwed" but am I over-worrying?
I bought my 2015 ex demo from Toyota with quite a big discount, and touch wood it's been trouble free. I don't think you'll have much trouble even with early 2012 cars, there have been a number of revisions, however, most of these have been cosmetic. The major changes are a better 65ah battery, and there was a recall for a power steering component, so worth checking this has been done. There are a few special editions
The Subaru FA20 engine has been the same since day one, as the UK sadly didn't get the MY2016 improvements. It's generally regarded as a fairly reliable engine.
It's also worth remembering, with the Toyota version at least, that they'll all still have some of the 5 year warranty remaining.
There are some things to be mindful of with all 86's though;
1. They have a big torque dip, above 4,500rpm it's fine, however, it can be jarring when not driving flat out. If you're happy to mod, you can remove this easily with a manifold and remap.
2. If you get one with leather the bolster wear is awful, and totally unavoidable unless you're willing to use a seat cover. my 86 is on 14k already has more wear than my wife's Alfa at 160k! And I'm quite skinny and very careful! If I was looking again I'd go cloth. I will add however that they are extremely comfortable seats.
3. The rear brakes will squeak unless you do lots of heavy braking.
4. The water pump is very loud and makes the engine sounds like crickets on idle.
5. The paintwork is extremely prone to stone chips, but I think this is more to do with modern paint being water based.
Other than that they are generally great cars and I'd certainly recommend it, I've had more fun in mine than any other car I've owned. The handling and driving position is the best I've experienced, and this is coming from an FD RX7.
If you're serious head over to either of the owners clubs and get some advise from people far more knowledgeable than I :-)
The Subaru FA20 engine has been the same since day one, as the UK sadly didn't get the MY2016 improvements. It's generally regarded as a fairly reliable engine.
It's also worth remembering, with the Toyota version at least, that they'll all still have some of the 5 year warranty remaining.
There are some things to be mindful of with all 86's though;
1. They have a big torque dip, above 4,500rpm it's fine, however, it can be jarring when not driving flat out. If you're happy to mod, you can remove this easily with a manifold and remap.
2. If you get one with leather the bolster wear is awful, and totally unavoidable unless you're willing to use a seat cover. my 86 is on 14k already has more wear than my wife's Alfa at 160k! And I'm quite skinny and very careful! If I was looking again I'd go cloth. I will add however that they are extremely comfortable seats.
3. The rear brakes will squeak unless you do lots of heavy braking.
4. The water pump is very loud and makes the engine sounds like crickets on idle.
5. The paintwork is extremely prone to stone chips, but I think this is more to do with modern paint being water based.
Other than that they are generally great cars and I'd certainly recommend it, I've had more fun in mine than any other car I've owned. The handling and driving position is the best I've experienced, and this is coming from an FD RX7.
If you're serious head over to either of the owners clubs and get some advise from people far more knowledgeable than I :-)
Edited by philwhite on Thursday 3rd August 12:59
If you are considering taking it to track days, invest in a good baffled sump.
There are more than a few types around and for good reason.
Also........I'm not fully on board with having 7psi oil pressure at idle when warm as being stock specification.
I think the 5w30 option in the manual for hard driving is a good idea except in super cold areas.
There are more than a few types around and for good reason.
Also........I'm not fully on board with having 7psi oil pressure at idle when warm as being stock specification.
I think the 5w30 option in the manual for hard driving is a good idea except in super cold areas.
HowlerMonkey said:
If you are considering taking it to track days, invest in a good baffled sump.
There are more than a few types around and for good reason.
Lack of a baffled sump isn't an issue unless you're running semi-slicks or grippier tyres. The standard sump is fine for road tyres (make sure you're not low on oil obviously).There are more than a few types around and for good reason.
HowlerMonkey said:
Also........I'm not fully on board with having 7psi oil pressure at idle when warm as being stock specification.
Why not? As long as the oil pressure is sufficient to push oil around the engine it doesn't need to be higher. 5w30 can be used, but it's just loading the oil pump needlessly for the most part.For a NA engine 0W20 will not be an issue, I'd only consider thicker oil with FI.
There is a used buyer's guide here, the article is a bit s
t, but owners feedback in the comments is worthwhile:
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=16...
I bought my BRZ used with 14k on the clocks at 3 years old, with just under 2 years warranty left.
I love it!
t, but owners feedback in the comments is worthwhile:https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=16...
I bought my BRZ used with 14k on the clocks at 3 years old, with just under 2 years warranty left.
I love it!
Flibble said:
HowlerMonkey said:
If you are considering taking it to track days, invest in a good baffled sump.
There are more than a few types around and for good reason.
Lack of a baffled sump isn't an issue unless you're running semi-slicks or grippier tyres. The standard sump is fine for road tyres (make sure you're not low on oil obviously).There are more than a few types around and for good reason.
HowlerMonkey said:
Also........I'm not fully on board with having 7psi oil pressure at idle when warm as being stock specification.
Why not? As long as the oil pressure is sufficient to push oil around the engine it doesn't need to be higher. 5w30 can be used, but it's just loading the oil pump needlessly for the most part.For a NA engine 0W20 will not be an issue, I'd only consider thicker oil with FI.
Because I'm the toyota master technician tasked to rebuild these bombed out engines.
The 5w30 brings up the hot oil pressure up to normal levels.
Toyota of late has made many bad decisions concerning "reducing drag" to improve efficiency and they have resulted in expensive campaigns such as the "replacing the pistons and rings because the cars use 1 qt. every 350 miles campaign" and the "replace every single valve spring and lifter in longitudinal V8s and V6s (not all but I did hundreds of cars in 2 years at lexus).
Edited by HowlerMonkey on Sunday 17th September 02:02
No, not on GT86s but there is plenty of toyota in that engine that isn't documented as well as the decisions on oil type.
Remember that toyota had at least a 16 percent stake in subaru at the time and Subaru had no direct injection engines until that car.
Now how much extra mileage or horsepower do you think you will get by running 0w-20 over 5w-30?
My point in mentioning other toyota car mistakes is just to relate the mindset toyota adopted around 2003 in that they do very little testing as compared to before then.
Remember that the LS400s drove millions of miles and had many changes before being introduced.
They are so good that I did a valve adjustment on one with 270,000 miles and only one was out of spec.
Instead, toyota now drops a product on the market and lets the technicians fix it in the field through "campaigns" while paying them super stingy labor times to fix a design problem.
You realize this when you're doing an airbag recall on a car who's production date is months after the announcement of the recall.
I'm sure this is just another bad habit picked up from executive decisions at manufacturers such as general motors and short term profit mongering that influenced toyota executives looking for a quick buck.
I stand by my recommendation of not drifting or racing the BRZ or FR-S until a proper sump and oil type are used.
Also....if you blow one up and it comes to me, I'd better not find evidence of a roll cage, track day slips, or forum posts detailing racing of the car or you may end up having to foot the bill yourself instead of warranty covering it.
I started getting tight on this stuff when people kept blowing up the 2zz six speed celicas because they couldn't handle downshifting a six speed transmission.
Remember that toyota had at least a 16 percent stake in subaru at the time and Subaru had no direct injection engines until that car.
Now how much extra mileage or horsepower do you think you will get by running 0w-20 over 5w-30?
My point in mentioning other toyota car mistakes is just to relate the mindset toyota adopted around 2003 in that they do very little testing as compared to before then.
Remember that the LS400s drove millions of miles and had many changes before being introduced.
They are so good that I did a valve adjustment on one with 270,000 miles and only one was out of spec.
Instead, toyota now drops a product on the market and lets the technicians fix it in the field through "campaigns" while paying them super stingy labor times to fix a design problem.
You realize this when you're doing an airbag recall on a car who's production date is months after the announcement of the recall.
I'm sure this is just another bad habit picked up from executive decisions at manufacturers such as general motors and short term profit mongering that influenced toyota executives looking for a quick buck.
I stand by my recommendation of not drifting or racing the BRZ or FR-S until a proper sump and oil type are used.
Also....if you blow one up and it comes to me, I'd better not find evidence of a roll cage, track day slips, or forum posts detailing racing of the car or you may end up having to foot the bill yourself instead of warranty covering it.
I started getting tight on this stuff when people kept blowing up the 2zz six speed celicas because they couldn't handle downshifting a six speed transmission.
I'll be going 5w30 as soon as I'm out of warranty next year.
Subaru gave me no grief around having KW V3 coilovers, adjustable rear toe arms, lower arms etc, and commented only on the camber setup being "a little agressive" -2.5 front, -2 rear.
Warranty no longer covers suspension components for me, but engine/box/diff still good.
Subaru gave me no grief around having KW V3 coilovers, adjustable rear toe arms, lower arms etc, and commented only on the camber setup being "a little agressive" -2.5 front, -2 rear.
Warranty no longer covers suspension components for me, but engine/box/diff still good.
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