EP3 - does it still cut it in 2017/18?

[greenarrow]

Ok guys I think I've posted something about this car before like this, but EP3 prices are on the floor and only likely to go one way, so I am fancying getting a cheap one next to replace my cheap and rusting MX-5..

partly prompted by a conversation with a petrolhead in my building at work who works for Warranty Direct. He was bemoaning the reliability of German cars in general (The Golf R apparently tops the league of warranty direct claims) and telling me how he'd bought an EP3 for a grand and absolutely loved it......

I do however wonder, does it cut it in 2017/18 in a world of effortlessly fast turbo charged hot hatches and saloons?

I've read posts on PH by people who say stuff like "blah, blah, my TDI kept up with an EP3, no trouble" and..."blah, blah, they're gutless below 5000 RPM.." which makes me wonder if they no long feel very fast.

That said, my MX-5 has a n/a engine which only really feels remotely brisk above 4000 RPM so I'm used to using all the rev range and TBH, if you drive that car hard it can keep up with your average modern TDI, so I would imagine a CTR with a 0-100 time when new of around 17 secs should still be quite brisk if you drive it properly...

so, what do you think, is it still a good drive in the modern era?

[Ahbefive]

Bargain cars for £2-£3k really.

[Paul671]

Faster than your average car down a decent bit of road, doesn't have 300lbft at 1000rpm though so you do have to use the gears. Disregard anyone who claims 200bhp in a light(ish) hatch isn't more than enough to get you into trouble, although the modern hyper hatches are in another league performance wise.
For the money they are very hard to beat (especially for track use), although I'm not personally a fan, I think it needed a bit more DC5 DNA. My ropey old Accord Type R is way nicer to drive.

[greenarrow]

Paul671 said:

Faster than your average car down a decent bit of road, doesn't have 300lbft at 1000rpm though so you do have to use the gears. Disregard anyone who claims 200bhp in a light(ish) hatch isn't more than enough to get you into trouble, although the modern hyper hatches are in another league performance wise.
For the money they are very hard to beat (especially for track use), although I'm not personally a fan, I think it needed a bit more DC5 DNA. My ropey old Accord Type R is way nicer to drive.

Funny you mention the ATR, I nearly bought one back in the day, but instead went for a classic shape Impreza Turbo, a decision I regretted when its bottom end bearing went only 6 weeks later......

...As I said in my post, I have no issue stirring the gears. I own two cars, one is a torquey Insignia diesel, the other a torque light MX-5 NB 1.8i which needs to be thrashed to feel even remotely brisk! If I get a CTR, It will be as a toy not a daily driver, so revving the nuts of it wont be a problem!!

[Butter Face]

To answer the question. Yes.

Ok, they’re old now and to really make them hustle you need to spend some money. Newer stuff will walk over them.

Mine is now running 320bhp and is a monster on the road and more than capable of holding its own.

[VtecLover]

If your comparing it to modern day hatches that are about 15 plus years newer then don't bother. the ep3 tech wise was basic back then never mind now.

it is worth buying a good clean one, the ep3 with some cash thrown at it will more then be a lively motor. You will never make huge dyno numbers but they don't need them to hang with the number queens.

a remap with bolt ons (intake, exhaust/manifold, intake manifold) should get you around the 240/170 ft lbs mark good to 8600 rpm! (rough cost around £2k new)

a gearbox LSD plus final drive at around £1k will have you on the rear bumper of most modern day turbo hatches trying to get them to move out your way!

The best would be to have a drive and feel, the shape after isn't too bad either. As a daily driver, it is far superior in build quality and extras.

[chrismc1977]

In terms of out & out pace then of course modern stuff is quicker but the K20 is very tweakable as mentioned

Biggest fails on the EP3 for me are the lack of a slip diff, that horrible lifeless steering, & cheapo Swindon build. A bit like a modern Audi for me a car can be as fast as you like but if it doesn’t stir the soul or induce a smile when driving then it’s not for me

Speed wise not a million miles from my DC2- but the driving experience is not in the same league

[SeanEP3]

learn to drive them properly, and they can hold their own. great car for the money.

[Alpinestars]

https://youtu.be/iX1EfVoDuFc

Enjoy.

[Sillyhatday]

Thanks. I enjoyed that somewhat predictable result

[TheJimi]

Alpinestars said:

https://youtu.be/iX1EfVoDuFc

Enjoy.

Yep, predictable results there, don't anyone is gonna be surprised at that.

Edited by TheJimi on Sunday 21st January 10:01

[Alpinestars]

Sillyhatday said:

Thanks. I enjoyed that somewhat predictable result

The Mugen is the daddy

[Butter Face]

I'd love to take mine along to something like that. Having had a play with FK2 on the road I think It'd be a good run on a drag strip!

[TheJimi]

Still gonna keep it for a while, Butters?

[Butter Face]

Yeah I think so, unless something special comes along at the right price that takes my fancy!

Been watching a couple of Supercharged EP3's on eBay (albeit with less spec than mine) and they don't seem to be selling at the moment.

[h3nde]

I think the EP3 can still cut it. If you’re working to a budget (like me) it’s a very good way to spend your money. Compared to the modern day equivalents like; Fiesta ST, Corsa VXR, Ibiza FR or basically most 1.4-1.6 turbo jobbies it can certainly hold its own, provided you can use it on the limit and live with an open diff. On the other hand spend a few grand on a diff and suspension mods and you’ll have a right weapon as mentioned above.

I’d rather my EP3 than become a pcp slave, after all your down payment for anything newer can net you a tidy EP, or dare I say it an FN2

[Alpinestars]

h3nde said:

I think the EP3 can still cut it. If you’re working to a budget (like me) it’s a very good way to spend your money. Compared to the modern day equivalents like; Fiesta ST, Corsa VXR, Ibiza FR or basically most 1.4-1.6 turbo jobbies it can certainly hold its own, provided you can use it on the limit and live with an open diff. On the other hand spend a few grand on a diff and suspension mods and you’ll have a right weapon as mentioned above.

I’d rather my EP3 than become a pcp slave, after all your down payment for anything newer can net you a tidy EP, or dare I say it an FN2

EP3 is better than the (standard) FN2 IMV.

[Sillyhatday]

h3nde said:

I think the EP3 can still cut it. If you’re working to a budget (like me) it’s a very good way to spend your money. Compared to the modern day equivalents like; Fiesta ST, Corsa VXR, Ibiza FR or basically most 1.4-1.6 turbo jobbies it can certainly hold its own, provided you can use it on the limit and live with an open diff. On the other hand spend a few grand on a diff and suspension mods and you’ll have a right weapon as mentioned above.

I’d rather my EP3 than become a pcp slave, after all your down payment for anything newer can net you a tidy EP, or dare I say it an FN2

I own an FN2 and had an EP2. The EP is much more playful and less serious feeling, whereas the FN feels much more stable and serious. Daily driving I dont miss the EP at all (and not just because it was a 1.6). For a toy the EP3 is the better choice, daily drive, FN2 every time.

I agree with the PCP situation. Can't help but feel a little smug not having any monthly payments vs others in the more modern hot hatches for something that has similar performance

[chrismc1977]

Butter Face said:

I'd love to take mine along to something like that. Having had a play with FK2 on the road I think It'd be a good run on a drag strip!

Defo. All these modern big-power things are seriously lardy. Quick once wound up in a straight line but lack that fun/chuckabilty factor

Followed a mate in an AMG A45 the other week & it wasn’t as significantly faster than my DC2 in a straight line as I thought it might be.

Throw the twisties in & I was all over him. I know who was having more fun too!

A lot to be said for lighter/revvy old school stuff if you can drive them properly & keep them on the boil

[krismccloy]

chrismc1977 said:

Defo. All these modern big-power things are seriously lardy. Quick once wound up in a straight line but lack that fun/chuckabilty factor

Followed a mate in an AMG A45 the other week & it wasn’t as significantly faster than my DC2 in a straight line as I thought it might be.

Throw the twisties in & I was all over him. I know who was having more fun too!

A lot to be said for lighter/revvy old school stuff if you can drive them properly & keep them on the boil

Good man, ha. Lot to be said for <1100kg in the modern world.

My old '98 Spec surprised a fellow motorist in an X5 M50D with reg. 'B055', Caught up with me after a spirited jaunt from the lights to the next private roundabout, Got a big thumbs up from him. Don't think he was it expecting it from my 1.8i.

In regards to the EP3, I have owned the DC2, FN2 and now an EP3. Engine is standard in the EP3 with just a B-pipe and AEM intake, had enough power to grant me 2nd in the Trackday class at Croft for the javelin sprint last year. I have never been blown away by the power of the new breed of hatches I have met on TD's. The EP3 does need to be worked hard, particularly without a map for more mid-range, Which can be tiresome for some, But it's one of the things I love about the Honda's.