Toyota GT86/Subaru BRZ: overrated or underrated gem?
Discussion
Dr Doofenshmirtz said:
My Son has just bought an Aero edition with massive wing and body kit as standard. It looks mad and all his mates are very impressed. As a 20 year old it doesn’t just tick all the boxes, it scribbles all over the form and eats it.
He’s more than happy with his and to be fair, it is a lovely car to drive.
I didn’t realise these where a factory option, saw one with a massive wing the other day and just thought a massive chav with too much spare change stuck one on!He’s more than happy with his and to be fair, it is a lovely car to drive.
Xcore said:
Dr Doofenshmirtz said:
My Son has just bought an Aero edition with massive wing and body kit as standard. It looks mad and all his mates are very impressed. As a 20 year old it doesn’t just tick all the boxes, it scribbles all over the form and eats it.
He’s more than happy with his and to be fair, it is a lovely car to drive.
I didn’t realise these where a factory option, saw one with a massive wing the other day and just thought a massive chav with too much spare change stuck one on!He’s more than happy with his and to be fair, it is a lovely car to drive.
Edited by Deep Thought on Tuesday 11th June 21:43
DoubleD said:
nickfrog said:
I ran a GT86 for a year and it was brilliant on tighter tracks on proper tyres but as a road car, I couldn't live with the engine, it's so bad in so many ways. And I don't normally care about the engine much.
Good car, crap engine, is what you always here about these cars.mikey P 500 said:
Owned one for a couple of years and really liked it. 
However the reason for sale was the back seat became too small as my children grew, by 6 years old my son was struggling to fit behind me, as my daughter sat on other rear seat (which was better as could run passenger front seat further forward) . That is really the only negative otherwise they are great.
I tried one when they had been out a while. At first our local dealer was very precious about their demo and it was several months before I got to try one. The handling was good but found engine a bit ‘flat’ compared to other 4-pots I’ve had. Wouldn’t say it felt like real 200bhp but it was new so perhaps a bit tight. Sadly my 2 sons (7 and 9 ) couldn’t fit in the back and it would have been an everyday car for me, holidays to Europe etcHowever the reason for sale was the back seat became too small as my children grew, by 6 years old my son was struggling to fit behind me, as my daughter sat on other rear seat (which was better as could run passenger front seat further forward) . That is really the only negative otherwise they are great.
Bought an older rwd car with the same footprint and performance ( but more rear passenger space ) that does the same job in the end
white_goodman said:
CABC said:
Audi TT a lot faster.
Cayman cost buttons to run.
why would you?
Audi TT is basically a Golf and no more practical than the GT86, I'd just get a Golf GTI and have the extra practicality too. Cayman absolutely but I do want rear seats for my 7 and 5 year old. Probably only looking at spending 10-12k too...Cayman cost buttons to run.
why would you?
if it fits your specific reqs, i say it's a gem. proper chassis and much cheaper to run than a cayman.
i'd caution against FI, rather i'd change the manifold and remap.
I was in a similar situation to you OP in that I was torn between a gt86 and a fiesta st. I think the 86 is a cracking looking car but I tried one and sadly I was just underwhelmed by the engine. More fun than most cars on a feisty road don't get me wrong, but it just lacked a bit of umph.
I ended up getting the st and don't regret my decision.
I ended up getting the st and don't regret my decision.
The main issue with the engine is that while 200hp should be sufficient for 1250kgs, the engine feels like 150hp which are not even delivered usefully, so strange is the OE mapping/fuelling. I don't know to what extent a remap can improve things though.
It might be fine for some but for me it didn't work, particularly on track where you had to let everyone through in the straights and be stuck behind them in the corners.
It might be fine for some but for me it didn't work, particularly on track where you had to let everyone through in the straights and be stuck behind them in the corners.
Hatethisbit said:
I was in a similar situation to you OP in that I was torn between a gt86 and a fiesta st. I think the 86 is a cracking looking car but I tried one and sadly I was just underwhelmed by the engine. More fun than most cars on a feisty road don't get me wrong, but it just lacked a bit of umph.
I ended up getting the st and don't regret my decision.
Even though their straight line performance is identical?I ended up getting the st and don't regret my decision.
https://fastestlaps.com/comparisons/ap9m84rg6ncs
Robmarriott said:
The stereo is pants, it doesn't go loud enough, you can hear music but on the motorway you struggle with any talking, easily remedied though I suspect.
Have you seen the speakers they fit in them though 
?The rear speakers are pathetic little 3.5" mid range jobbies. The front door speakers are traditional 6" with a tweeter in the top of the dash and a 4" mid-range. The door speakers are the lightest speakers I have ever seen with an incredibly small magnet. It's no wonder it sounds so crap.
You can sort out the front speakers easy enough, but it's a real shame they didn't fit 6x9s in the back.
Looking at the door speakers though, this really was a weight saving exercise.
I keep looking at the GT86 as a potential daily driver.
I love the idea of one. And I too think the rear seats make it appealing. Although how much room they really have I'm not so sure about. Looked at a parked GT86 two Saturdays ago, the drivers seat was evidently in it's normal position for the owner (never saw them), but the seat back was touching the rear seat!
I've had other 2+2 coupes and all have been usable to an extent. So I would expect the GT86 to be too. But may need a little additional convincing.
As for performance. meh, I'm not sure i'm overly fussed how quick it is or isn't. I have seen dyno charts showing a huge torque drop right at the point you wouldn't want it, not sure if a remap could solve this. Suspect it's done for emissions and/or mpg reasons.
That said, I simply do not understand why there hasn't been a turbo version. Especially as the engine already exists in production form. Every single review and especially those in the USA say about the lack of power, or more specifically lack of torque.
Ultimately I think they are a bit too pricey for what they are. Hence the low numbers sold in the UK at least. You are looking at almost £30k to buy one. Which when compared to an MX-5 or Fiesta ST or even a 370z just seems expensive for the bang for buck ratio.
On a side note, while I don't mind how they look, it is also a shame they didn't make them a little more "wow" in the visuals department. They are just a little too bland and ordinary visually. Certainly not bad looking, but you know so much more could have been done.
If you are looking at newish ones, then I feel a Mustang Ecoboost probably offers more bang per buck and is likely to be more fun more of the time. These can be had used for comparable money. The GT86 is certainly the sharper tool and if you are on your own the better driving machine. But the Mustang isn't bad either. And the GT86 just isn't special enough as a weekend only car. You'd go for a Lotus or Porshce for that. Daily driver is where it's at for the GT86.
I love the idea of one. And I too think the rear seats make it appealing. Although how much room they really have I'm not so sure about. Looked at a parked GT86 two Saturdays ago, the drivers seat was evidently in it's normal position for the owner (never saw them), but the seat back was touching the rear seat!
I've had other 2+2 coupes and all have been usable to an extent. So I would expect the GT86 to be too. But may need a little additional convincing.
As for performance. meh, I'm not sure i'm overly fussed how quick it is or isn't. I have seen dyno charts showing a huge torque drop right at the point you wouldn't want it, not sure if a remap could solve this. Suspect it's done for emissions and/or mpg reasons.
That said, I simply do not understand why there hasn't been a turbo version. Especially as the engine already exists in production form. Every single review and especially those in the USA say about the lack of power, or more specifically lack of torque.
Ultimately I think they are a bit too pricey for what they are. Hence the low numbers sold in the UK at least. You are looking at almost £30k to buy one. Which when compared to an MX-5 or Fiesta ST or even a 370z just seems expensive for the bang for buck ratio.
On a side note, while I don't mind how they look, it is also a shame they didn't make them a little more "wow" in the visuals department. They are just a little too bland and ordinary visually. Certainly not bad looking, but you know so much more could have been done.
If you are looking at newish ones, then I feel a Mustang Ecoboost probably offers more bang per buck and is likely to be more fun more of the time. These can be had used for comparable money. The GT86 is certainly the sharper tool and if you are on your own the better driving machine. But the Mustang isn't bad either. And the GT86 just isn't special enough as a weekend only car. You'd go for a Lotus or Porshce for that. Daily driver is where it's at for the GT86.
300bhp/ton said:
I keep looking at the GT86 as a potential daily driver.
I love the idea of one. And I too think the rear seats make it appealing. Although how much room they really have I'm not so sure about. Looked at a parked GT86 two Saturdays ago, the drivers seat was evidently in it's normal position for the owner (never saw them), but the seat back was touching the rear seat!
Yep, realistically it's a 2 or 3 seater. No, the engine doesn't sound great. Yes, it's a bit plasticy and would get rinsed by a Focus ST.I love the idea of one. And I too think the rear seats make it appealing. Although how much room they really have I'm not so sure about. Looked at a parked GT86 two Saturdays ago, the drivers seat was evidently in it's normal position for the owner (never saw them), but the seat back was touching the rear seat!
But for me, it's RWD, LSD, low grip tyres, combined with cheap running costs; makes it pretty much the ideal daily driver
james_gt3rs said:
Yep, realistically it's a 2 or 3 seater. No, the engine doesn't sound great. Yes, it's a bit plasticy and would get rinsed by a Focus ST.
But for me, it's RWD, LSD, low grip tyres, combined with cheap running costs; makes it pretty much the ideal daily driver
spot on.But for me, it's RWD, LSD, low grip tyres, combined with cheap running costs; makes it pretty much the ideal daily driver
it's Cayman-esque, but at half the price (purchase and running costs. Cayman twice the car too). simple, reliable fun.
hot hatches don't have the same chassis appeal for some people, so it's good to have a choice.
ride can be unsettled, one reason ours might be chopped in for a Mini (all things are relative...)
torque dip can be solved - real issue is legislation killing our fun, not Toyota.
Edited by CABC on Wednesday 12th June 16:09
nickfrog said:
The main issue with the engine is that while 200hp should be sufficient for 1250kgs, the engine feels like 150hp which are not even delivered usefully, so strange is the OE mapping/fuelling. I don't know to what extent a remap can improve things though.
It might be fine for some but for me it didn't work, particularly on track where you had to let everyone through in the straights and be stuck behind them in the corners.
This is pretty much what it's like with an MX5. It might be fine for some but for me it didn't work, particularly on track where you had to let everyone through in the straights and be stuck behind them in the corners.
Although, I would say if you're stuck behind them in the corners, they should be letting you go on the straights if following correct track etiquette.
Anyway, that's a bit off topic.
I always liked the idea of a GT86 and because I love my MX5 so much I figured I'd cope OK with the lack of power.
If I compare my Mini Cooper S(same size engine/a bit quicker because of the turbo and torque/similar weight) to the GT86 I would much rather have the GT86 for its looks/RWD/LSD for sure. FWD can be fun don't get me wrong but it is a crude way to get(or not get in the Minis case) the power down for me.
It would be interesting to see how many more GT86's they would sell if it had a turbo and a bit more bhp. I would certainly buy one if it had more performance, but It is still a pretty niche market though and I guess that Toyota have already checked to see.
I had one for just over two years it cost nothing to run
I had it about 5 months before the Top Gear review it got alot attention ,it looked good and handled well
The engine was very smooth but as other posters it lacked umph and overtaking could be a challenge
lastly getting duffed up the lights was annoying
I think it will be classic and a great secondhand buy
I had it about 5 months before the Top Gear review it got alot attention ,it looked good and handled well
The engine was very smooth but as other posters it lacked umph and overtaking could be a challenge
lastly getting duffed up the lights was annoying
I think it will be classic and a great secondhand buy
I'm also very seriously considering one - went to look a GT86 yesterday, but torrential rain made a test drive a bit pointless so will be going back on Saturday. My main concern is that I have a 55 mile daily commute which is almost all motorways and dual carriageways, so I'm wondering if the appeal will quickly wear thin and I should get something like a E class or 3 series coupe. So what is it like on those roads, what sort of MPG would I get and should it be run on super unleaded?
They are awesome with a tune up. Mine has been to Fensport and has 214hp with the Subaru unequal length manifold so has the burble and on 99 octane the flat spot is removed.
It’s an absolute weapon if you know how to drive and can live between 5500rpm and 7500rpm.
I have the money for a Porsche but there’s just no need on a typical English/Welsh B road this is all you need and actually the fact that you have to thrash the thing is half the fun. I cane my GT86 and whilst that is slower than mild pressing on in my 535d or even my V8 L322 it’s raw old fashioned sportscar fun.
The centre of gravity is lower than a Cayman. It’s a scalpel in a world of broadswords.
It’s designed to be modified. I’m never selling mine. Ever.
It’s an absolute weapon if you know how to drive and can live between 5500rpm and 7500rpm.
I have the money for a Porsche but there’s just no need on a typical English/Welsh B road this is all you need and actually the fact that you have to thrash the thing is half the fun. I cane my GT86 and whilst that is slower than mild pressing on in my 535d or even my V8 L322 it’s raw old fashioned sportscar fun.
The centre of gravity is lower than a Cayman. It’s a scalpel in a world of broadswords.
It’s designed to be modified. I’m never selling mine. Ever.
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