Toyota GT86/Subaru BRZ: overrated or underrated gem?
Discussion
A Winner Is You said:
I'm also very seriously considering one - went to look a GT86 yesterday, but torrential rain made a test drive a bit pointless so will be going back on Saturday. My main concern is that I have a 55 mile daily commute which is almost all motorways and dual carriageways, so I'm wondering if the appeal will quickly wear thin and I should get something like a E class or 3 series coupe. So what is it like on those roads, what sort of MPG would I get and should it be run on super unleaded?
30ish mpg using s/ul; less in my experience on regular. I find it comfortable enough for motorways, but some say it's too noisy. My last car was as aerodynamic as a house brick so for me the BRZ is a significant improvement
MrsMiggins said:
A Winner Is You said:
I'm also very seriously considering one - went to look a GT86 yesterday, but torrential rain made a test drive a bit pointless so will be going back on Saturday. My main concern is that I have a 55 mile daily commute which is almost all motorways and dual carriageways, so I'm wondering if the appeal will quickly wear thin and I should get something like a E class or 3 series coupe. So what is it like on those roads, what sort of MPG would I get and should it be run on super unleaded?
30ish mpg using s/ul; less in my experience on regular. I find it comfortable enough for motorways, but some say it's too noisy. My last car was as aerodynamic as a house brick so for me the BRZ is a significant improvement
I get about 32mpg (brim to brim) on a 1/3 town 2/3 D/C commute in mine (only about 9 miles each way). Did a run to Liverpool and back from Brighton and got an indicated 45.8mpg on the trip computer sticking to 70ish on the motorway (few 50mph zones no doubt helped that).
The ride at high speeds is pretty comfortable, and the seats are fantastic. Only things that count against it on long journeys is the road noise is quite high and stereo is fairly meh.
The ride at high speeds is pretty comfortable, and the seats are fantastic. Only things that count against it on long journeys is the road noise is quite high and stereo is fairly meh.
I bought my facelifted GT86 just under 8 months ago, covered around 10k miles in mixed use.
The original owner paid something like £28k with options (satellite navigation, rear parking sensors, metallic paint, armrest), I paid £21,500 when it was 6 months and just over 3k miles, which I thought was a good buy.
I don't think the engine is as bad as some make it out to be, though coming from a supercharged MINI Cooper S, the lack of torque took some getting used to. The fuel economy is a revelation, I'm used to old Land Rovers and Jaguar V12s, so an average of 30mpg with over 40 possible on a run at 80mph is completely alien yet very welcome. I might do something about the torque dip in time, but it doesn't overly bother me now because I've just learned to drive around it. I don't think it sounds all that bad, but that's personal preference.
Handling in the dry is good, though you really need to be awake to get the best out of it, sometimes I find myself second guessing if the rear has settled or not. I took it on a couple of laps at the Nurburgring last year, and it really came alive there. Great fun.
Wet handling is very predictable, but it can be quite snappy and unpredictable if it's greasy or part dry/wet on the standard Michelins.
It's not that bad at motorway journeys but as others have pointed out, it does suffer with road noise and the standard stereo is poor. Stability and visibility are good however, and it will sit at 90-100mph all day without hesitation, and runs at 140mph+ on the Autobahn are dismissed without drama. The seats are excellent, as is the driving position.
Servicing isn't the cheapest (£200 1st year, £365 2nd year), but once out of warranty I'll probably swerve main dealers anyway. The 5th or 6 service is something like £600 at a main dealer (plugs are replaced).
Practicality isn't a huge issue for me, but you can fit smaller adults in the back for short trips which is useful (though it's probably happened 3 times in 18 months).
Only issue it's had is when cold, it can sometimes be quite difficult to select 2nd gear. Even when warm it can often crunch into gear, but it hasn't gotten any worse since I've had it so I'll leave it for the time being.
The original owner paid something like £28k with options (satellite navigation, rear parking sensors, metallic paint, armrest), I paid £21,500 when it was 6 months and just over 3k miles, which I thought was a good buy.
I don't think the engine is as bad as some make it out to be, though coming from a supercharged MINI Cooper S, the lack of torque took some getting used to. The fuel economy is a revelation, I'm used to old Land Rovers and Jaguar V12s, so an average of 30mpg with over 40 possible on a run at 80mph is completely alien yet very welcome. I might do something about the torque dip in time, but it doesn't overly bother me now because I've just learned to drive around it. I don't think it sounds all that bad, but that's personal preference.
Handling in the dry is good, though you really need to be awake to get the best out of it, sometimes I find myself second guessing if the rear has settled or not. I took it on a couple of laps at the Nurburgring last year, and it really came alive there. Great fun.
Wet handling is very predictable, but it can be quite snappy and unpredictable if it's greasy or part dry/wet on the standard Michelins.
It's not that bad at motorway journeys but as others have pointed out, it does suffer with road noise and the standard stereo is poor. Stability and visibility are good however, and it will sit at 90-100mph all day without hesitation, and runs at 140mph+ on the Autobahn are dismissed without drama. The seats are excellent, as is the driving position.
Servicing isn't the cheapest (£200 1st year, £365 2nd year), but once out of warranty I'll probably swerve main dealers anyway. The 5th or 6 service is something like £600 at a main dealer (plugs are replaced).
Practicality isn't a huge issue for me, but you can fit smaller adults in the back for short trips which is useful (though it's probably happened 3 times in 18 months).
Only issue it's had is when cold, it can sometimes be quite difficult to select 2nd gear. Even when warm it can often crunch into gear, but it hasn't gotten any worse since I've had it so I'll leave it for the time being.
Took a 16 plate for a test drive today, making sure motorways were part of it. I didn't notice any excess road noise, although it's all relative to what you are used to. I found it nice to drive, supportive seats and decent engine note (as well as being surprisingly cheap to insure), but can't help but feel the novelty may wear off. I also drove an Octavia VRS diesel, which in a purely logical way is better in almost every single category, but could never have that ability to put a smile on your face or turn heads.
I had the 60k mile service done by Toyota to retain FSH. It did run noticeably better afterwards so perhaps plugs are important in that type of engine, mine redlines at 7,600rpm.
I’ve just reinsured it as I’ve had it a year and done 5,500 miles in it. Mostly B roads with the odd motorway excursion. I like it better than any car since my old H plate Peugeot 309GTi in the mid 1990’s and more than the R plate Nissan200SX I had twenty years ago - and those are two of my favourites ever.
Mine sounds rude with the full Miltek exhaust and I love the Subaru burble - those mods and remap give the car so much character. There’s a huge modification scene. I recently had a boys day out driving session around the Brecon Beacons/Powys. The 981 Cayman S couldn’t lose me and he couldn’t catch me on the B roads. Brecon By-pass etc a different story but ultimate thrust doesn’t bother me much these days. I want something I can thrash and that feels fast and feels like it’s approaching the edge of grip.
Most of all what I like is that you don’t see many, petrolheads know what it is, it’s cheap to tyre/fuel/service/repair and it’s engineered by Toyota who make pickup trucks you can throw in the sea and still start. Brake pads were £98 for 4 and fitted by the local back street mechanic. Just bought 4 new Michelin PilotSport 4’s at £84 a corner fitted. I know a Cayman is better and I could afford one but my goodness the extra cost to extra benefit ratio is quite high. Plus I use the two back seats on the school run all the time. With the passenger seat slid forward my ten year old sits in the back fine with another ten year old in the front. I did that today. I’d need a 911 to do the same.
As a third car for fun runs and livening up local trips it’s fairly awesome. The money saved over going the Porsche route is many thousands of pounds and, frankly, that’s enough for ANOTHER toy (did someone say BMW310GS with the Rally Raid package?).
Given they’ve announced their will be a mk2 then I think in time the GT86’s That don’t get crashed or turbo’d to death will become classics. It’s a long term keeper for me.
I’ve just reinsured it as I’ve had it a year and done 5,500 miles in it. Mostly B roads with the odd motorway excursion. I like it better than any car since my old H plate Peugeot 309GTi in the mid 1990’s and more than the R plate Nissan200SX I had twenty years ago - and those are two of my favourites ever.
Mine sounds rude with the full Miltek exhaust and I love the Subaru burble - those mods and remap give the car so much character. There’s a huge modification scene. I recently had a boys day out driving session around the Brecon Beacons/Powys. The 981 Cayman S couldn’t lose me and he couldn’t catch me on the B roads. Brecon By-pass etc a different story but ultimate thrust doesn’t bother me much these days. I want something I can thrash and that feels fast and feels like it’s approaching the edge of grip.
Most of all what I like is that you don’t see many, petrolheads know what it is, it’s cheap to tyre/fuel/service/repair and it’s engineered by Toyota who make pickup trucks you can throw in the sea and still start. Brake pads were £98 for 4 and fitted by the local back street mechanic. Just bought 4 new Michelin PilotSport 4’s at £84 a corner fitted. I know a Cayman is better and I could afford one but my goodness the extra cost to extra benefit ratio is quite high. Plus I use the two back seats on the school run all the time. With the passenger seat slid forward my ten year old sits in the back fine with another ten year old in the front. I did that today. I’d need a 911 to do the same.
As a third car for fun runs and livening up local trips it’s fairly awesome. The money saved over going the Porsche route is many thousands of pounds and, frankly, that’s enough for ANOTHER toy (did someone say BMW310GS with the Rally Raid package?).
Given they’ve announced their will be a mk2 then I think in time the GT86’s That don’t get crashed or turbo’d to death will become classics. It’s a long term keeper for me.
Plus just go take a look in the Porsche forums. Soooo many expensive problems and niggles. At about 6 years old it seems acceptable and expected than half the five radiators will need replacing etc etc.
The whole scene abhors any sort of modification or tuning because that will ruin the residuals. Half the conversation is about which spec to choose and which colour of deviated stitching is best. The dealers seem to be more in charge of your car than you are and you have to charm them and follow their extensive rulebook or they will punish you on the trade in. If you e got a normal version of one of their very expensive cars you are a nobody because there’s several classes of R and RS and Spyder and GT4/3 above you. Manual gearboxes are sneered at in favour of saving a few tenths a second on a racing circuit with PDK not that any normal driver ever takes their car on a circuit after they do the introductory Silverstone day with Porsche.
By contrast the BRZ/GT86 scene is full of people who actually drive their cars hard and all have pretty much exactly the same car unless they fiddle about with it which is interesting and encouraged by both owners and the manufacture. Deep inside the huge Toyota Corporation there are some serious car-guys who ‘get it’. Look at the new Supra - it’s an absolute drift machine.
The whole scene abhors any sort of modification or tuning because that will ruin the residuals. Half the conversation is about which spec to choose and which colour of deviated stitching is best. The dealers seem to be more in charge of your car than you are and you have to charm them and follow their extensive rulebook or they will punish you on the trade in. If you e got a normal version of one of their very expensive cars you are a nobody because there’s several classes of R and RS and Spyder and GT4/3 above you. Manual gearboxes are sneered at in favour of saving a few tenths a second on a racing circuit with PDK not that any normal driver ever takes their car on a circuit after they do the introductory Silverstone day with Porsche.
By contrast the BRZ/GT86 scene is full of people who actually drive their cars hard and all have pretty much exactly the same car unless they fiddle about with it which is interesting and encouraged by both owners and the manufacture. Deep inside the huge Toyota Corporation there are some serious car-guys who ‘get it’. Look at the new Supra - it’s an absolute drift machine.
I bought mine in 2015 and I'm still surprised at how much enjoyment I get out from it. It is by no means perfect out the factory, which does frustrate some but it is also incredibly easy and well supported to tweak and not to mention work on without worry.
The best new old car you can buy today, given how the car industry is changing I'd recommend anyone who likes to drive to own one even if its just for a few months, residuals are stable and consumables are cheap, which they ask for very little of.
The best new old car you can buy today, given how the car industry is changing I'd recommend anyone who likes to drive to own one even if its just for a few months, residuals are stable and consumables are cheap, which they ask for very little of.
I do fancy one of these at some point. I've got an FTO at the moment so no stranger to having to rev the nuts off an engine to get the best from it
A frend of mine has a (I think) Blitz supercharger kit fitted to his GT86, certainly never seems short of puff when we're out and about and makes some awesome noises to boot
A frend of mine has a (I think) Blitz supercharger kit fitted to his GT86, certainly never seems short of puff when we're out and about and makes some awesome noises to boot
These seem like a good base for modifications. I would imagine if you are a "buy and forget" type of car owner it may become stale, especially with reports of flat spots and lacking umph.
With their lightweight chassis and decent weight distribution, I'm sure you could change one of these to suit how YOU want a car to be. There seems to be quite a few off the shelf parts now, and even a drive in/drive out turbo services (eg. Fensport) who can make it nippier if that is what you are after.
I know it isn't the same, but I have a Toyota Altezza which is an N/A 4 pot and I absolutely love it, even after coming from other higher powered Jap cars (evo, s13). It has taken some time and money to get it close to how I want, and I'm not there just yet, but you really can change a car to suit yourself. And I see the GT86 as a similar platform, it is a clean slate ready for your mark to be left on it.
With their lightweight chassis and decent weight distribution, I'm sure you could change one of these to suit how YOU want a car to be. There seems to be quite a few off the shelf parts now, and even a drive in/drive out turbo services (eg. Fensport) who can make it nippier if that is what you are after.
I know it isn't the same, but I have a Toyota Altezza which is an N/A 4 pot and I absolutely love it, even after coming from other higher powered Jap cars (evo, s13). It has taken some time and money to get it close to how I want, and I'm not there just yet, but you really can change a car to suit yourself. And I see the GT86 as a similar platform, it is a clean slate ready for your mark to be left on it.
Edited by captain_tripping on Thursday 11th July 09:21
I've been daily driving mine for almost a year now since fixing it up (Thread in reader's cars )
not sure if it's been answered already but in regards to 0-60 times it's unfortunately down to gearing as I believe 2nd tops out just shy of 60.
When it comes to driving though the car is fantastic, as someone used to turbo cars the 86 is actually my least powerful car by quite a margin but there's something very fun about being able to chuck around a lightweight (by today's standards) RWD car and take it right up to the rev limiter in most gears without going crazy speeds.
Even in totally stock form the car performs really well on-track, compared to my VX220 Turbo it's no doubt miles slower but whereas one Chassis/powerband really tests a driver and makes it painfully obvious where your weak points lie the 86's chassis and high rev power band is a refreshing change to really feel like you're getting 110% of performance out of it.
They're also very "Old school" in their modifications, alot of the Suspension, brakes, etc is carried over from the 09+ Subaru WRX Chassis so things like wheels, brakes, even ARB's are interchangable and that also means it's very easy to work on if you're interested in that.
As far as daily driving goes as well I really love it although I've not driven much in the way of Luxury, you sit low and the seats are comfy, heated, etc. It's my first car with 6 gears and cruise control too so that's a nice addition and playing music isn't too terrible in mine as it was specced out with the optional JBL upgrades from the factory by a previous owner.
)not sure if it's been answered already but in regards to 0-60 times it's unfortunately down to gearing as I believe 2nd tops out just shy of 60.
When it comes to driving though the car is fantastic, as someone used to turbo cars the 86 is actually my least powerful car by quite a margin but there's something very fun about being able to chuck around a lightweight (by today's standards) RWD car and take it right up to the rev limiter in most gears without going crazy speeds.
Even in totally stock form the car performs really well on-track, compared to my VX220 Turbo it's no doubt miles slower but whereas one Chassis/powerband really tests a driver and makes it painfully obvious where your weak points lie the 86's chassis and high rev power band is a refreshing change to really feel like you're getting 110% of performance out of it.
They're also very "Old school" in their modifications, alot of the Suspension, brakes, etc is carried over from the 09+ Subaru WRX Chassis so things like wheels, brakes, even ARB's are interchangable and that also means it's very easy to work on if you're interested in that.
As far as daily driving goes as well I really love it although I've not driven much in the way of Luxury, you sit low and the seats are comfy, heated, etc. It's my first car with 6 gears and cruise control too so that's a nice addition and playing music isn't too terrible in mine as it was specced out with the optional JBL upgrades from the factory by a previous owner.
captain_tripping said:
These seem like a good base for modifications.
Very much so. That was part of the philosophy behind it.https://blog.toyota.co.uk/2017-toyota-gt86-intervi...
Red Devil said:
Very much so. That was part of the philosophy behind it.
https://blog.toyota.co.uk/2017-toyota-gt86-intervi...
I don't think this was ever a good idea, whilst it is a brilliant platform to modify, the fact you are almost persuaded to it suggest the car has been left incomplete or compromised. More so if you have swallowed over 27k buying one, then you having to fork out more money to personal it/improve it just seems silly.https://blog.toyota.co.uk/2017-toyota-gt86-intervi...
We ran one for a year. Did an Italian road trip in it too.
Great fun car when you were in the mood but struggled with the daily trudge.
Not easy to get out of in tight spaces easily,
Swapped it & a Panda Cross for a top spec C-HR + an Abarth 595 180bhp Competizione.
Haven’t looked back TBH.
Great fun car when you were in the mood but struggled with the daily trudge.
Not easy to get out of in tight spaces easily,
Swapped it & a Panda Cross for a top spec C-HR + an Abarth 595 180bhp Competizione.
Haven’t looked back TBH.
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