X3/X5 - Tyres - BMW Approved or not

X3/X5 - Tyres - BMW Approved or not

Author
Discussion

mike325112

Original Poster:

1,070 posts

183 months

Wednesday 28th September 2011
quotequote all
I need to change the rear tyres on our X3 3.0d (18's). The rears are OEM Dunlop SP's and the fronts are some newish Fullrun jobbies (never heard of them, they were on the car when we bought it)
I've been reading some things on bimmerfest regarding what tyres to put on the X series cars. Im now completely confused...

BMW recommend only putting approved tyres on them to stop damage to the transfer box due to different circumferences of the tyres and that you change all 4 at once. Is this crap being spouted from BMW or does it sound feasible?


14-7

6,233 posts

190 months

Wednesday 28th September 2011
quotequote all
mike325112 said:
I need to change the rear tyres on our X3 3.0d (18's). The rears are OEM Dunlop SP's and the fronts are some newish Fullrun jobbies (never heard of them, they were on the car when we bought it)
I've been reading some things on bimmerfest regarding what tyres to put on the X series cars. Im now completely confused...

BMW recommend only putting approved tyres on them to stop damage to the transfer box due to different circumferences of the tyres and that you change all 4 at once. Is this crap being spouted from BMW or does it sound feasible?
Is it permanent four wheel drive? If so it is sometimes best to replace all four at once.

mike325112

Original Poster:

1,070 posts

183 months

Wednesday 28th September 2011
quotequote all
I believe the X3 is - its just a bit of a bugger thats all. I'd budgeted for 2 tyres and now it looks like 4! Knickers...

Ranger 6

7,041 posts

248 months

Wednesday 28th September 2011
quotequote all
mike325112 said:
...Is this crap being spouted from BMW or does it sound feasible?
No, it's not crap. From experience if you run non-star marked tyres on staggered wheels the transfer box gets 'wound up' by the different rolling radius causing the front and rear axles to travel at different speeds.

Mine showed symptoms of the transmission jerking/hopping through the auto box. I have heard instances that there's a grinding/droning like a severe wheel bearing problem.

Edit: This only applies to staggered wheels. If you've got the same size all round then you shouldn't worry. When I swap to 17"s for the winter they're not star marked and in 5 years I've never had an issue.

mike325112

Original Poster:

1,070 posts

183 months

Wednesday 28th September 2011
quotequote all
Ranger 6 said:
No, it's not crap. From experience if you run non-star marked tyres on staggered wheels the transfer box gets 'wound up' by the different rolling radius causing the front and rear axles to travel at different speeds.

Mine showed symptoms of the transmission jerking/hopping through the auto box. I have heard instances that there's a grinding/droning like a severe wheel bearing problem.

Edit: This only applies to staggered wheels. If you've got the same size all round then you shouldn't worry. When I swap to 17"s for the winter they're not star marked and in 5 years I've never had an issue.
I was rather hoping you'd see this! I think there's only me and the with X3 3.0d's on here!

I've not got staggered wheels they are 235/50/18's all round. Just been talking to someone at a tyre place who said similar. I think I'm gonna have to junk the cheapie jobbies on the front though.

theboss

6,878 posts

218 months

Wednesday 28th September 2011
quotequote all
I've certainly heard recommendations to put OEM fitment tyres on X's (those with the star marking) however I'm not sure its necessary to replace all four at once because they invariably wear at different rates anyway.

When we bought our X3 (SD) as an AUC the supplying dealer had put two brand new tyres (Pzero Rosso) on the rear whilst there was a partially worn set of the same, on the front. When the fronts wore I changed them (for the same again) and never had any issues. So maybe the important thing is to stick with OEM tyres *and* use four of the same rather than ensure they are all at the same tread depth.

Frances The Mute

1,816 posts

240 months

Wednesday 28th September 2011
quotequote all
By approved, I assume you mean the star marked tyres that denotes BMW OE?

This will have no real relevance with the subject you're talking about. All 4wd systems are prone to diff issue if the tyres aren't matched (in terms of tread pattern type) are different sizes (e.g. 225 & 235 on the same axle) or have a large disparity with regards to their remaining tread depth.

Staggered sizes will have similar if not near identical rolling circumference measurements so this won't affect it, either. As long as you have a matched set and the tread depths are within 3-4mm of each other, you'll be fine.

Ranger 6

7,041 posts

248 months

Wednesday 28th September 2011
quotequote all
Frances The Mute said:
Staggered sizes will have similar if not near identical rolling circumference measurements so this won't affect it, either. As long as you have a matched set and the tread depths are within 3-4mm of each other, you'll be fine.
The problem is that this is not true for BMWs - staggered sizes DO cause issues.

When I bought the car it had Barum 255/40/19 on the back and Bridgestone 235/45/19 on the front. That's only a 1.08% difference (23.56mm on the circumference) but it screwed the gearbox on mine. Taking it to the local dealer, they immediately spotted the tyres and swapped them for star marked Pirelli P Zero Rosso all round (same staggered sizes) and the gearbox has been fine over the subsequent 3k miles.

mike325112 said:
I was rather hoping you'd see this! I think there's only me and thee with X3 3.0d's on here!

I've not got staggered wheels they are 235/50/18's all round. Just been talking to someone at a tyre place who said similar. I think I'm gonna have to junk the cheapie jobbies on the front though.
laugh yes, there aren't many of us!!

I think you'll have to bin the ditchfinders, if I were in your place I'd be looking at these:
http://www.camskill.co.uk/m65b0s5638p70848/PIRELLI...

Not cheap, but they'd be much better than the Dunlops (SP01 I assume?) over the winter and as an all season tyre would not have the same seasonal requirements as pure winter tyres. I used the Scorpions as winter/rally tyres until I got the Alpins - now I only use them for rallies and the occasional excursion.... hehe


thegman

1,928 posts

203 months

Thursday 29th September 2011
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Hi

I have the Bridgestones on the front and the Michelin Diamaris on the back. Backs are getting close to the markers, fronts were only replaced about 3k ago.

Would I be ok putting Toyo STs on the back?

Frances The Mute

1,816 posts

240 months

Thursday 29th September 2011
quotequote all
Ranger 6 said:
Frances The Mute said:
Staggered sizes will have similar if not near identical rolling circumference measurements so this won't affect it, either. As long as you have a matched set and the tread depths are within 3-4mm of each other, you'll be fine.
The problem is that this is not true for BMWs - staggered sizes DO cause issues.

When I bought the car it had Barum 255/40/19 on the back and Bridgestone 235/45/19 on the front. That's only a 1.08% difference (23.56mm on the circumference) but it screwed the gearbox on mine.
As mentioned in my earlier post; if you have different tread patterns, this will be an issue as they will have different grip co-efficients making the diff work overtime.

Ranger 6

7,041 posts

248 months

Thursday 29th September 2011
quotequote all
How do you explain it when the same thing happens with the same make and pattern? Fella on BMWland had this issue with Kumhos all round.

Frances The Mute

1,816 posts

240 months

Friday 30th September 2011
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There's also an issue with tread depths and to a lesser degree, inflation pressures.

Ranger 6

7,041 posts

248 months

Friday 30th September 2011
quotequote all
No, no and again no.....

If you have pressure discrepancies the monitoring system will tell you - if you have the same make and size of tyres but different tread depths then nothing will happen (I've currently got three old tyres and one new all on 17").

However if you have a BMW X3 with staggered wheels then you really really really should have star marked tyres otherwise you are highly likely to fk up you're transfer box.

After 6 years of owning two of these cars and various sets of wheels with road, M+S and winter tyres from 17" to 19" that's my experience which may count to other owners, so please stop the opinions unless you too can base your suggestions on experience.

Big_Dog

974 posts

184 months

Friday 30th September 2011
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I have been using Bridgestone on the front and Nexen on the back, new 2000 miles ago prior to this they were odd front to back for some 6000 miles. I have had no problems on 19s with a 2002 X5.

Big Tav

645 posts

163 months

Saturday 1st October 2011
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I am in the same predicament. I am about to buy an X3 for my wife and I notice the 18's on it aren't star rated. The tread depth is 6 mm all round on Goodyear Excellence tyres. Do I now have to budget in another £750 for new tyres?

Frances The Mute

1,816 posts

240 months

Saturday 1st October 2011
quotequote all
Ranger 6 said:
No, no and again no.....

If you have pressure discrepancies the monitoring system will tell you - if you have the same make and size of tyres but different tread depths then nothing will happen (I've currently got three old tyres and one new all on 17").

However if you have a BMW X3 with staggered wheels then you really really really should have star marked tyres otherwise you are highly likely to fk up you're transfer box.

After 6 years of owning two of these cars and various sets of wheels with road, M+S and winter tyres from 17" to 19" that's my experience which may count to other owners, so please stop the opinions unless you too can base your suggestions on experience.
The TPMS systems are pretty flawed, whether it be a direct or indirect system. There's no replacement for conducting a manual pressure test.

Direct systems will measure the rolling circumference of each wheel and will intervene should there be a large enough disparity. What their threshold is, is anyones guess..
Indirect systems will measure air volume. A employee of one well known German car maker happened to let slip in conversation once that their warnings were set around 20psi when a nominal pressure would be around 30. Great warning system.

I'm not disputing your own experience. Nor have I suggested such. I've no intention of owning one of those hateful things so you're free to express your opinion.
I do, however, work for a major tyre firm that manufactures OE spec tyres for a number of OEM's so I have plenty of experience where it counts, thanks.

carl_w

9,154 posts

257 months

Sunday 2nd October 2011
quotequote all
Ranger 6 said:
However if you have a BMW X3 with staggered wheels then you really really really should have star marked tyres otherwise you are highly likely to fk up you're transfer box.
I'm not getting this. I can see staggered wheels cocking up your transfer box. But this will be the same regardless of whether the tyres are star marked or not. Cocking up the transfer box is a function of the rolling radius of the tyres, which is a function of the size and aspect ratio (and I guess to a lesser extent the sidewall stiffness). If you swap out the star marked tyres all round for non star marked, making sure you replace like for like in terms of size, how does it make a difference? Does the transfer box know the tyres are star marked? What is the difference between the star marked tyres and the non-star marked?

Ranger 6

7,041 posts

248 months

Sunday 2nd October 2011
quotequote all
Big Tav said:
I am in the same predicament. I am about to buy an X3 for my wife and I notice the 18's on it aren't star rated. The tread depth is 6 mm all round on Goodyear Excellence tyres. Do I now have to budget in another £750 for new tyres?
If the tyres are different sizes front to back then I'd budget to change, however, your comment about being Goodyear Excellence all round suggests they may be the same size, if so I'd suggest you'd be OK. My winter tyres aren't star rated and I run those for 4/5 months of the year with no issue. The crucial thing is that they're the same size all round.

Frances The Mute said:
....I do, however, work for a major tyre firm that manufactures OE spec tyres for a number of OEM's so I have plenty of experience where it counts, thanks.
At last smile, maybe if you'd dropped that nugget in earlier I may have understood better - now I'm listening - maybe if you supply BMW you could help with what appears to be a valid response from Dunlop on another forum. Apparently the star marked tyres are made to a specific rolling weight AND radius so both the transfer box and the TPMS which works from the ABS sensors isn't fooled either by the increase in rotating mass or the difference in rolling radius.

carl_w said:
...What is the difference between the star marked tyres and the non-star marked?
See my answer above - a response from Dunlop on another forum gavce the info that the star marked tyres are made to a specific rolling weight AND radius (which works out the same no matter what size is on the sidewall) so not only the transfer box 'feels' the same weight and resistance from both axles but also the TPMS which works from the ABS sensors isn't fooled either by the increase in rotating mass or the difference in rolling radius.

carl_w

9,154 posts

257 months

Sunday 2nd October 2011
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FWIW I have fitted Pirelli PZero runflats (not * marked) to a 5-series and Vredestein Ultrac Sessantas (not * marked) to a Z4M Coupe. But neither is 4WD of course.

ColinX3three

3 posts

107 months

Saturday 11th April 2015
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Hi new to forum , 1st post. Will need to be changing tyres on my X3 3.0d before long drive in Europe and wondered about latest thinking on tyres for X3. The near end of life tyres on mine are Michelin Latitude Tour HP 235/50/R18's - Have you good experience of a particular Make/Model for General Use(East Herts / West Essex) and Touring? Don't really do any off-roading other than the odd grassy field 99% on road year round tyre at reasonable price/performance.
I'm thinking the Michelin's are OK but probably better can be found for my MY06 X3 - Thanks