New BMW's getting stolen using blank BMW keys

[youngsyr]

loose cannon said:

Another angle for anti theft,
Get yourself a superchips bluefin,
As well as a remap you can use it to remove ecu mapping rendering it immobile, no way there stealing it then unless they put it on a transporter.
Just another avenue of thought for you all,

Easier and much cheaper to get a battery cut out switch. However, the problem with both is that it doesn't stop the scumbags drilling your door before finding out that the car won't go anywhere, leaving you with inconvenience, the cost of your excess and an insurance claim.

[BMWTech]

r999 said:

How can that be, when the EU laws that are at the heart of this issue stipulate that people other than main dealers must have access to create new keys?

Is there a service bulletin you can refer us to? Or some fuller explanation?

I'm afraid that after the months of rumour from all and sundry, vast amounts of inadequate information in this and other places, and outright denials from BMW, anyone posting new claims about a solution needs to provide some evidence and detail if they are to be believed.

I don't have any bulletins to hand, and the PUMA system we use would show my user number which would get me trouble from BMW. (it's a confidential system not to be passed to public or press).

Also, if you don't believe me then just call your local dealer. They will be more than happy to book you in for the Quality Enhancement. I'm not here to talk sh*t, I joined this forum to help/make others aware. I own an e90 myself so this is a key development that directly affected me personally. The more cars I can prevent being stolen, the less my insurance will cost next year.

I appreciate your concern, but I'm only trying to help others...

[r999]

BMWTech said:

I appreciate your concern, but I'm only trying to help others...

Thanks for replying. I'm happy to accept that you are who you say you are and that you are trying to help.

So would you very kindly be able to answer the questions that follow?

How can this be an extra layer of encryption when the EU laws that gave rise to this problem insist that people other than BMW dealers must be able to prepare new keys?

Are you taking about encryption from the OBD port to the CAS module or encryption from the key to the CAS module? Or something else?

Is this fix a replacement for the one that BMW has been applying already, which supposedly just stops the windows rolling down after a screwdriver is forced into the lock? Or is it in addition to that fix?

How is the car going to behave differently after this fix (or these fixes, if we are now talking about two) is applied?

Apologies for asking several questions, but you'll understand that people have had to take action and protect themselves without any help for the past few months, and consequently now need to understand just what vulnerabilities have been removed and what might remain.

[B10BRW]

r999 said:

This is quite normal. If the car has not had software updates for quite some time, it may require many others before the latest one gets applied. Consider yourself lucky they did not say it might go into a second day, as updates sometimes have to be left running overnight.

If you don't like it, go back to the 1980s and get yourself a software-free car.

Are you this rude normally, or do you have to practise

I do not consider myself lucky,if our vehicles were fit for purpose, I with many other BMW owners should not have to be getting this "update" done in the first place

[r999]

B10BRW said:

Are you this rude normally, or do you have to practise

I do not consider myself lucky,if our vehicles were fit for purpose, I with many other BMW owners should not have to be getting this "update" done in the first place

So you are angry because a dealer wants your car for one whole day, and you are going to spend your time hunting round for one who will do it more quickly. Sheesh...

[t8cmf]

BMWTech,

Can I ask a question also?

Does the upgrade update the entire cars firmware or does it just upgrade a particular module?

The reason I ask is that most owners of E92 M3's I know of on another forum have had the update and one way to tell is that the DSC OFF symbol is changed from a warning triangle to a car with sliding skid marks. One owner picked his car up the other day after having the update and his DSC OFF symbol is still the old style warning triangle which is a little confusing. It doesn't add up with what the other owners have had done.

I'm hoping it upgrades the entire car as my M3 is still on its 2007 factory install.

[r999]

t8cmf said:

BMWTech,

Can I ask a question also?

Does the upgrade update the entire cars firmware or does it just upgrade a particular module?

The reason I ask is that most owners of E92 M3's I know of on another forum have had the update and one way to tell is that the DSC OFF symbol is changed from a warning triangle to a car with sliding skid marks. One owner picked his car up the other day after having the update and his DSC OFF symbol is still the old style warning triangle which is a little confusing. It doesn't add up with what the other owners have had done.

I'm hoping it upgrades the entire car as my M3 is still on its 2007 factory install.

According to BMWTech, the update he refers to was first announced to dealers on Friday afternoon, that is, yesterday. So none of the people you've heard from has had it done yet. That is why I said we need to distinguish clearly between this new update (whatever it is, and assuming it exists) and the one BMW has been offering to some people for a while. As I hinted, an extra layer of confusion will arise from having two updates, and evidently my prediction is already coming true.

[BMWTech]

r999 said:

BMWTech said:

I appreciate your concern, but I'm only trying to help others...

How can this be an extra layer of encryption when the EU laws that gave rise to this problem insist that people other than BMW dealers must be able to prepare new keys?

Are you taking about encryption from the OBD port to the CAS module or encryption from the key to the CAS module? Or something else?

Is this fix a replacement for the one that BMW has been applying already, which supposedly just stops the windows rolling down after a screwdriver is forced into the lock? Or is it in addition to that fix?

How is the car going to behave differently after this fix (or these fixes, if we are now talking about two) is applied?

Apologies for asking several questions, but you'll understand that people have had to take action and protect themselves without any help for the past few months, and consequently now need to understand just what vulnerabilities have been removed and what might remain.

I appreciate your concerns and you ask good questions. I will look further into this on Monday. I only had a skim read of the details on Friday, but from what I have read it stipulated that there was a new 'layer' which required the use of BMW dealer software to access. It involves programming the CAS through the OBD. My manager has also been asking questions to BMW UK about the matter in question, but details are sketchy at the moment.


The fix itself will definitely cure the programming of blank keys, but I don't think it mentioned the window drop (the key word in that sentence being 'think'). Most cars nowadays have the window-drop feature if you hold the unlock button on the key or insert the key into the door lock and hold it in the unlock position (my old fiesta had this!). As long as there are nice cars, there will always be thieving bds finding their weak points.

If it's any consolation, the programming of keys doesn't effect only BMW's. The programming software works on any car with an OBD port and fob remote. The new Fiesta has also been a common stolen car recently with the keyless go technology. Any mid/high spec car with this faces the possibility of being stolen, but unfortunately for us, BMW's are better than Ford/VW/Audi etc and are more 'stolen to order'. After all, if you have the technology, would you steal a £12k VW Passat or £40k 3 Series?

Hope that helps for now, will stay in touch

[r999]

BMWTech said:

Hope that helps for now, will stay in touch

Thanks. Much appreciated. I (and I'm sure many others) will look forward to whatever more you can find out.

There have been disappointments before, but if this news lives up to its promise, it will be the most significant development for many months.

Edited by r999 on Saturday 17th November 21:23

[t8cmf]

r999 said:

According to BMWTech, the update he refers to was first announced to dealers on Friday afternoon, that is, yesterday. So none of the people you've heard from has had it done yet. That is why I said we need to distinguish clearly between this new update (whatever it is, and assuming it exists) and the one BMW has been offering to some people for a while. As I hinted, an extra layer of confusion will arise from having two updates, and evidently my prediction is already coming true.

As far as I'm aware BMW stated that cars built after September 2011 are immune to this type of theft. Those that have subsequently gone into BMW to have their update (there are many on the M3 forum I frequent) surely must have had this update so therefore will be protected. Have I missed something?

Totally agree that if two versions of the update is available then even more confusion will reign.

Edited by t8cmf on Saturday 17th November 21:29

[Panda76]

Interesting info BMWTECH.
Sods law I was in the dealers friday morning getting service work.
Will give them a call Monday.

[Dudikoff]

07 335i coupe, woke up to a smashed driver side window, diagnostic port pulled out, not sure why car is still on driveway! Very annoying.

[Mr Bimmer]

Dudikoff said:

07 335i coupe, woke up to a smashed driver side window, diagnostic port pulled out, not sure why car is still on driveway! Very annoying.

When did you last have some work done at the main dealers?

If its within the last year, then you probably already have the updated firmware which kept the thieves out.

[matue007uk]

Hi All - I own a BMW 320d M Sport 2010 and I found another solution on the internet to protect my vehicle and it works great.

[smack]

matue007uk said:

Hi All - I own a BMW 320d M Sport 2010 and I found another solution on the internet to protect my vehicle and it works great.

A tasteless chavtastic bodykit?

[Pferdestarke]

matue007uk said:

Hi All - I own a BMW 320d M Sport 2010 and I found another solution on the internet to protect my vehicle and it works great.

Thanks for that 007. Is it an exploding pen?

[Kuroblack350]

t8cmf said:

r999 said:

According to BMWTech, the update he refers to was first announced to dealers on Friday afternoon, that is, yesterday. So none of the people you've heard from has had it done yet. That is why I said we need to distinguish clearly between this new update (whatever it is, and assuming it exists) and the one BMW has been offering to some people for a while. As I hinted, an extra layer of confusion will arise from having two updates, and evidently my prediction is already coming true.

As far as I'm aware BMW stated that cars built after September 2011 are immune to this type of theft. Those that have subsequently gone into BMW to have their update (there are many on the M3 forum I frequent) surely must have had this update so therefore will be protected. Have I missed something?

Totally agree that if two versions of the update is available then even more confusion will reign.

Edited by t8cmf on Saturday 17th November 21:29

Quick update in terms of 'affected' dates. Just booked my September 2011 E92 in for the update next Friday - apparently it is affected, and will be suitably 'enhanced' over a 90 minute period...

Edited to add; I know this is an abvious point, but build date and registered date are quite different for those folks doing their 'am I affected' homework.

[matue007uk]

Hi – thanks for your comments, the device I had fitted prevents communication via the OBD port and it still all looks original if a crook was to try and steal my vehicle.

[Gra76]

B10BRW said:

Just been to my local BMW dealer Cooper, yes sir the "update" only takes an hour, but we need to have it all day in case we Cock it up, and have to try again

Why am I not surprised, has anyone else been told their dealer wants it all day.
Looking for another dealer to do it now

I just had mine done at a Cooper dealership this morning. Took just under 2 hours including time to give it a vacuum and once over with a sponge. Not too bad at all.

I just hope it works. The chap on the service desk was very confident in saying it was fixed. Couldn't tell me anymore than that when I asked what the 'fix was. He told me he wasn't allowed to incase I told someone, who told someone else, who told a gang of thieves so they could work out how to get around it....think the horse might have bolted already on that one but nevermind.

The Diskloc is staying on till I'm 100% happy it's fixed. I'm not quite there just yet...

[youngsyr]

matue007uk said:

Hi – thanks for your comments, the device I had fitted prevents communication via the OBD port and it still all looks original if a crook was to try and steal my vehicle.

Might be an idea to put a sticker in the window warning of additional security fitted as otherwise the crooks will just assume they can steal it easily and break in anyway.